State school admissions should not be wholistic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we realized how hard it is to be top 10% in w schools? This county has almost the best public school system, if we don’t consider privates. Many top 10% students there could be top 1% in average schools.

Considering UMDCP ranks #46. There should be guaranteed acceptance, not only to top10%, probably 15%.

Being top 10% at Whitman is way easier than living in poverty and being a target of systemic racism and still managing to make it to the top 10% at an under resourced school. Furthermore, the latter student brings a much needed perspective to the University that the UMC kid from Whitman does not bring.

Like what? What are they bringing to a CS class or an EE class specifically related to their background of poverty / systemic racism? What they are (or should be) bringing is their intellect which contributes to enhancing the content/quality of the class.

First, there's a reason you can't graduate with a degree from UMD with only CS or EE classes. But even those classes should be preparing people for a career in which they identify problems and build creative solutions. Poverty and systemic racism create obstacles, and being able to see and understand those obstacles is the first step to building solutions. Problems like AI bias in medical applications.

In addition, kids who have problem solved their way around obstacles, like poverty and racism, will bring that tenaciousness and problem solving ability to the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's ridiculous that you can bring your kid up in a state public school system from k to 12 and they can graduate with a perfect or near-perfect grade record and they don't get into your taxpayer-funded state college. There is an annual cycle of people in Maryland learning that going to a good public high school, taking hard classes, and getting good grades is not enough to get into UMDCP. Especially in MoCo. This is a system for distributing a government benefit, and it shouldn't be done through a mysterious black box and essentially random back room vibes.

It should be clear to every student no later than the first year of freshman year of high school what they will need to do to get into their state flagship. In a lot of states it is, but in particular in Maryland it is not and it is ridiculous. In Maryland kids are actively punished for attending good schools and working hard to do well.

It's all part of a unified public education system. If the people running the state university flagship don't think that the most academically accomplished high school graduates should attend the college, something is wrong.

I have been saying this forever about Crook-VA, Dollar-Billiam and Mary, and Pickpocket Tech. Rejecting a kid with a 4.0 is ludicrous and should be condemned.

When did Donald Trump join DCUM?

What’s with the grade school playground name calling?

When did Virginia's public colleges start catering to Richie Rich and rejecting qualified students?

UVA has been a Richie Rich school since about the 1700s. It is on a short list of schools that high society kids were expected to attend.

Because that’s what those early colleges in America were designed to do: train the males for the clergy. Harvard and Yale trained Congregationalist clergy. Princeton was Protestant. William & Mary was Anglican. UVA was the only one not affiliated with a religion by design of Thomas Jefferson. As the colonies and universities grew, the religious aspects grew less important to the education of colonial males.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This discussion has been amazing!

I'd just like there to be a criteria that *guarantees* admission to UMD based on academic achievement, even if it is very hard and only accounts for a small percentage of the in-state students who are admitted to UMD. It can factor in rigor, SAT score, ACT scores - whatever the state wants.

I'd love a state law that publishes the criteria for guaranteed admission. "If you go to an accredited school and get a 4.0, take at least X AP/IB/Honors classes, and score at least X on the SAT or ACT you are guaranteed admission to UMD Other than that, you are evaluated on the wholistic admissions factors."

This doesn't have to exclude anyone who doesn't meet those criteria, but it gives the students a promise that if they hit the targets, even if they are very hard to hit, they get the prize.

Also spoiler alert but DC did in fact get into UMD. This may be really confusing to some of you, but this isn't about me. I feel bad for all the kids who I see right now are posting about their great grades and SAT scores and are upset they didn't get into UMD. All the people saying "I posted the Naviance data and there are only a few outliers with great stats who didn't get in!" Well, the outliers are not just numbers. Those little red marks are hard working kids who put in a lot of time and effort thinking they were doing the right thing and then one day they were told they didn't get in and never given any explanation.

Finally, I'm not misspelling wholistic... I'm just brining a different perspective based on my unique background!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This discussion has been amazing!

I'd just like there to be a criteria that *guarantees* admission to UMD based on academic achievement, even if it is very hard and only accounts for a small percentage of the in-state students who are admitted to UMD. It can factor in rigor, SAT score, ACT scores - whatever the state wants.

I'd love a state law that publishes the criteria for guaranteed admission. "If you go to an accredited school and get a 4.0, take at least X AP/IB/Honors classes, and score at least X on the SAT or ACT you are guaranteed admission to UMD Other than that, you are evaluated on the wholistic admissions factors."

This doesn't have to exclude anyone who doesn't meet those criteria, but it gives the students a promise that if they hit the targets, even if they are very hard to hit, they get the prize.

Also spoiler alert but DC did in fact get into UMD. This may be really confusing to some of you, but this isn't about me. I feel bad for all the kids who I see right now are posting about their great grades and SAT scores and are upset they didn't get into UMD. All the people saying "I posted the Naviance data and there are only a few outliers with great stats who didn't get in!" Well, the outliers are not just numbers. Those little red marks are hard working kids who put in a lot of time and effort thinking they were doing the right thing and then one day they were told they didn't get in and never given any explanation.

Finally, I'm not misspelling wholistic... I'm just brining a different perspective based on my unique background!

Can’t spell “bringing” right either. Good thing it was your kid and not you applying to UMD.

[Anonymous]

I applied from RoVA. When I arrived at my public in-state university I found that a plurality of the other students were from NoVA.

NoVA has lots of students at every VA public university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This discussion has been amazing!

I'd just like there to be a criteria that *guarantees* admission to UMD based on academic achievement, even if it is very hard and only accounts for a small percentage of the in-state students who are admitted to UMD. It can factor in rigor, SAT score, ACT scores - whatever the state wants.

I'd love a state law that publishes the criteria for guaranteed admission. "If you go to an accredited school and get a 4.0, take at least X AP/IB/Honors classes, and score at least X on the SAT or ACT you are guaranteed admission to UMD Other than that, you are evaluated on the wholistic admissions factors."

This doesn't have to exclude anyone who doesn't meet those criteria, but it gives the students a promise that if they hit the targets, even if they are very hard to hit, they get the prize.

Also spoiler alert but DC did in fact get into UMD. This may be really confusing to some of you, but this isn't about me. I feel bad for all the kids who I see right now are posting about their great grades and SAT scores and are upset they didn't get into UMD. All the people saying "I posted the Naviance data and there are only a few outliers with great stats who didn't get in!" Well, the outliers are not just numbers. Those little red marks are hard working kids who put in a lot of time and effort thinking they were doing the right thing and then one day they were told they didn't get in and never given any explanation.

Finally, I'm not misspelling wholistic... I'm just brining a different perspective based on my unique background!

Can’t spell “bringing” right either. Good thing it was your kid and not you applying to UMD.

OP here. This made me laugh. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do we realized how hard it is to be top 10% in w schools? This county has almost the best public school system, if we don’t consider privates. Many top 10% students there could be top 1% in average schools.

Considering UMDCP ranks #46. There should be guaranteed acceptance, not only to top10%, probably 15%.

Being top 10% at Whitman is way easier than living in poverty and being a target of systemic racism and still managing to make it to the top 10% at an under resourced school. Furthermore, the latter student brings a much needed perspective to the University that the UMC kid from Whitman does not bring.

Like what? What are they bringing to a CS class or an EE class specifically related to their background of poverty / systemic racism? What they are (or should be) bringing is their intellect which contributes to enhancing the content/quality of the class.

First, there's a reason you can't graduate with a degree from UMD with only CS or EE classes. But even those classes should be preparing people for a career in which they identify problems and build creative solutions. Poverty and systemic racism create obstacles, and being able to see and understand those obstacles is the first step to building solutions. Problems like AI bias in medical applications.

In addition, kids who have problem solved their way around obstacles, like poverty and racism, will bring that tenaciousness and problem solving ability to the classroom.

Great answer. Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, the outliers are not just numbers. Those little red marks are hard working kids who put in a lot of time and effort thinking they were doing the right thing and then one day they were told they didn't get in and never given any explanation.

And some of them didn't work that hard and submitted shoddy applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's ridiculous that you can bring your kid up in a state public school system from k to 12 and they can graduate with a perfect or near-perfect grade record and they don't get into your taxpayer-funded state college. There is an annual cycle of people in Maryland learning that going to a good public high school, taking hard classes, and getting good grades is not enough to get into UMDCP. Especially in MoCo. This is a system for distributing a government benefit, and it shouldn't be done through a mysterious black box and essentially random back room vibes.

It should be clear to every student no later than the first year of freshman year of high school what they will need to do to get into their state flagship. In a lot of states it is, but in particular in Maryland it is not and it is ridiculous. In Maryland kids are actively punished for attending good schools and working hard to do well.

It's all part of a unified public education system. If the people running the state university flagship don't think that the most academically accomplished high school graduates should attend the college, something is wrong.

In Texas, the top 5% high school kids are guaranteed admission to its top public college (UT Austin), but there’s no guarantee that they’ll get into their first choice majors. Other TX colleges (including Texas A&M) will take the top 10% for sure, again to some major not necessarily your first choice. In practice, the top 5-10% of high school kids in Maryland ARE pretty much guaranteed a spot at UMD. I don’t see how imposing such a rule would make any practical difference.

Source? Can you confirm?

I shared the Naviance data from B-CC, and another private school parent shared the data from their school. Both of those affirm that top stats kids are admitted with few outliers.

Do you have evidence this isn’t true? If yes, please provide.

It's an anonymous website lady, Not a scientific journal. Throwing out "where's the evidence" doesn't work here.

If you want data, review the common data set. That's all you'll ever get unless you hack into the UMD admissions software. Which I don't think is going to change the results for your kid. Sorry.

I think you lost track of the fact that I was replying to someone else who asked for evidence.

In reality, my kid got in. They are in the top 5% of their class in MCPS by almost any metric you would use to measure class percentages (GPA, course rigor, number of AP classes, advancement in math, SAT, NMSF). DDs acceptance at UMD was somewhat expected because in reality all evidence seems to indicate that kids with top academics actually do consistently get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This discussion has been amazing!

I'd just like there to be a criteria that *guarantees* admission to UMD based on academic achievement, even if it is very hard and only accounts for a small percentage of the in-state students who are admitted to UMD. It can factor in rigor, SAT score, ACT scores - whatever the state wants.

I'd love a state law that publishes the criteria for guaranteed admission. "If you go to an accredited school and get a 4.0, take at least X AP/IB/Honors classes, and score at least X on the SAT or ACT you are guaranteed admission to UMD Other than that, you are evaluated on the wholistic admissions factors."

This doesn't have to exclude anyone who doesn't meet those criteria, but it gives the students a promise that if they hit the targets, even if they are very hard to hit, they get the prize.

Also spoiler alert but DC did in fact get into UMD. This may be really confusing to some of you, but this isn't about me. I feel bad for all the kids who I see right now are posting about their great grades and SAT scores and are upset they didn't get into UMD. All the people saying "I posted the Naviance data and there are only a few outliers with great stats who didn't get in!" Well, the outliers are not just numbers. Those little red marks are hard working kids who put in a lot of time and effort thinking they were doing the right thing and then one day they were told they didn't get in and never given any explanation.

Finally, I'm not misspelling wholistic... I'm just brining a different perspective based on my unique background!

Then write your legislator

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's ridiculous that you can bring your kid up in a state public school system from k to 12 and they can graduate with a perfect or near-perfect grade record and they don't get into your taxpayer-funded state college. There is an annual cycle of people in Maryland learning that going to a good public high school, taking hard classes, and getting good grades is not enough to get into UMDCP. Especially in MoCo. This is a system for distributing a government benefit, and it shouldn't be done through a mysterious black box and essentially random back room vibes.

It should be clear to every student no later than the first year of freshman year of high school what they will need to do to get into their state flagship. In a lot of states it is, but in particular in Maryland it is not and it is ridiculous. In Maryland kids are actively punished for attending good schools and working hard to do well.

It's all part of a unified public education system. If the people running the state university flagship don't think that the most academically accomplished high school graduates should attend the college, something is wrong.

I have been saying this forever about Crook-VA, Dollar-Billiam and Mary, and Pickpocket Tech. Rejecting a kid with a 4.0 is ludicrous and should be condemned.

When did Donald Trump join DCUM?

What’s with the grade school playground name calling?

When did Virginia's public colleges start catering to Richie Rich and rejecting qualified students?

UVA has been a Richie Rich school since about the 1700s. It is on a short list of schools that high society kids were expected to attend.

UVa was founded on paper in 1819, but I think classes did not begin until a few years later.

Unclear how anyone living in the 1700s could have attended a school that did not yet exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UNC is 82% in-state students. If UMD took more in-state kids it would be much easier to get in!

UVA is 60% in-state or something, hence why it was a bloodbath this year with more applicants. They need to actually start serving the state of Virginia properly.

VT, UVA & WM have for many decades had a deal with the Commonwealth that roughly 2/3rds of undergrad students at each would be in-state. The exact % varies slightly from year to year because no university can control the yield from the offers they make.

The universities need the OOS student fees to cover some of the operating losses they incur on in-state students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's ridiculous that you can bring your kid up in a state public school system from k to 12 and they can graduate with a perfect or near-perfect grade record and they don't get into your taxpayer-funded state college. There is an annual cycle of people in Maryland learning that going to a good public high school, taking hard classes, and getting good grades is not enough to get into UMDCP. Especially in MoCo. This is a system for distributing a government benefit, and it shouldn't be done through a mysterious black box and essentially random back room vibes.

It should be clear to every student no later than the first year of freshman year of high school what they will need to do to get into their state flagship. In a lot of states it is, but in particular in Maryland it is not and it is ridiculous. In Maryland kids are actively punished for attending good schools and working hard to do well.

It's all part of a unified public education system. If the people running the state university flagship don't think that the most academically accomplished high school graduates should attend the college, something is wrong.

I have been saying this forever about Crook-VA, Dollar-Billiam and Mary, and Pickpocket Tech. Rejecting a kid with a 4.0 is ludicrous and should be condemned.

When did Donald Trump join DCUM?

What’s with the grade school playground name calling?

When did Virginia's public colleges start catering to Richie Rich and rejecting qualified students?

UVA has been a Richie Rich school since about the 1700s. It is on a short list of schools that high society kids were expected to attend.

Because that’s what those early colleges in America were designed to do: train the males for the clergy. Harvard and Yale trained Congregationalist clergy. Princeton was Protestant. William & Mary was Anglican. UVA was the only one not affiliated with a religion by design of Thomas Jefferson. As the colonies and universities grew, the religious aspects grew less important to the education of colonial males.

Penn was really the first 60 years earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's ridiculous that you can bring your kid up in a state public school system from k to 12 and they can graduate with a perfect or near-perfect grade record and they don't get into your taxpayer-funded state college. There is an annual cycle of people in Maryland learning that going to a good public high school, taking hard classes, and getting good grades is not enough to get into UMDCP. Especially in MoCo. This is a system for distributing a government benefit, and it shouldn't be done through a mysterious black box and essentially random back room vibes.

It should be clear to every student no later than the first year of freshman year of high school what they will need to do to get into their state flagship. In a lot of states it is, but in particular in Maryland it is not and it is ridiculous. In Maryland kids are actively punished for attending good schools and working hard to do well.

It's all part of a unified public education system. If the people running the state university flagship don't think that the most academically accomplished high school graduates should attend the college, something is wrong.

I have been saying this forever about Crook-VA, Dollar-Billiam and Mary, and Pickpocket Tech. Rejecting a kid with a 4.0 is ludicrous and should be condemned.

When did Donald Trump join DCUM?

What’s with the grade school playground name calling?

When did Virginia's public colleges start catering to Richie Rich and rejecting qualified students?

UVA has been a Richie Rich school since about the 1700s. It is on a short list of schools that high society kids were expected to attend.

Because that’s what those early colleges in America were designed to do: train the males for the clergy. Harvard and Yale trained Congregationalist clergy. Princeton was Protestant. William & Mary was Anglican. UVA was the only one not affiliated with a religion by design of Thomas Jefferson. As the colonies and universities grew, the religious aspects grew less important to the education of colonial males.

Penn was really the first 60 years earlier.

Penn was actually supposed to service as a house of worship. https://www.upenn.edu/about/history#:~:text=Penn%20dates%20its%20founding%20to,as%20a%20house%20of%20worship.

[Anonymous]

Indeed. I think competitive college admissions should instead be narrowly focused on spelling ability.