What if Colleges Truly Required Test Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'holistic review' and 'ban SAT' policies might sound nice.

But, in reality, these policies merely allow the most wealthy and powerful to virtue signal while getting an edge for their children’s admission to the top universities (especially private universities).

Not true. Lower income kids score lower as a group on these tests. And this is for a variety of reasons

There’s an important nuance here: kids from the top 20% of households do better on the SAT than kids from lower quintiles. But “upper middle class” kids (80-95th percentile incomes) do better on test-only admissions than they do on holistic admissions. That’s because a decent education, while often beyond the reach of the poor, is much less expensive than the other kinds of enrichment activities that very high income families can support.

A normal education is great but did spend your summer on at a dig site with a famous archeologist or paleontologist? Sure it costs $50,000 to convince them to babysit you for the summer but the essay almost writes itself

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, here are some other studies (actual studies, not screenshots from X):

High School GPAs and ACT Scores as Predictors of College Completion: Examining Assumptions About Consistency Across High Schools: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X20902110

Contextualized High School Performance: Evidence to Inform Equitable Holistic, Test-Optional, and Test-Free Admissions Policies https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23328584231197413

Is the Sky Falling? Grade Inflation and the Signaling Power of Grades
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3102/0013189X13481382

Predicting College Success
How Do Different High School Assessments Measure Up?
https://edpolicyinca.org/publications/predicting-college-success-how-do-different-high-school-assessments-measure-2019

You forgot the UC study that looked at ALL the research and found that test scores were statistically significant in predicting college success. I believe that Purdue released similar research when they returned to test required.

Almost all the studies promoting GPA over tests scorews suffer from restricted range problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, here are some other studies (actual studies, not screenshots from X):

High School GPAs and ACT Scores as Predictors of College Completion: Examining Assumptions About Consistency Across High Schools: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X20902110

Contextualized High School Performance: Evidence to Inform Equitable Holistic, Test-Optional, and Test-Free Admissions Policies https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23328584231197413

Is the Sky Falling? Grade Inflation and the Signaling Power of Grades
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3102/0013189X13481382

Predicting College Success
How Do Different High School Assessments Measure Up?
https://edpolicyinca.org/publications/predicting-college-success-how-do-different-high-school-assessments-measure-2019

All of these fail to take account for the restricted range problem. A problem that went away during the test optional covid era when we could see the effect of admitting students with lower test scores on a regular basis. All of this is true at highly selective colleges and less true at less selective colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, here are some other studies (actual studies, not screenshots from X):

High School GPAs and ACT Scores as Predictors of College Completion: Examining Assumptions About Consistency Across High Schools: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X20902110

Contextualized High School Performance: Evidence to Inform Equitable Holistic, Test-Optional, and Test-Free Admissions Policies https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23328584231197413

Is the Sky Falling? Grade Inflation and the Signaling Power of Grades
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3102/0013189X13481382

Predicting College Success
How Do Different High School Assessments Measure Up?
https://edpolicyinca.org/publications/predicting-college-success-how-do-different-high-school-assessments-measure-2019

You forgot the UC study that looked at ALL the research and found that test scores were statistically significant in predicting college success. I believe that Purdue released similar research when they returned to test required.

No, I’m not forgetting that study. I’m noting that there are lots of studies with lots of different conclusions. Anyone saying that there’s a clear answer based on one study is not interested in the messy reality.

Which is why I’m a fan of test optional and holistic admissions—let schools figure out how to incorporate test scores. Let students emphasize their strengths. This is not a black and white issue, no matter how much you want it to be.

Not all studies are equal and schools know this and that is why you are seeing a drift back towards test required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so weird to me how obsessed some of you are with test scores as the end all and be all—and I say this as someone with a kid who got at 36 on the ACT in their first and only try.

I don’t think this entitles my kid to admission over kids with lower or no test scores. I think TO is great. I am glad 95% of schools are still TO.

Some of you need to off X and get outside. Good lord.

I agree. I think it’s the parents of high scorers who can’t believe a student can show intelligence/ talent/ potential/ ambition/ drive in another way. Test blind has worked out just fine for California schools

Worked out just fine? https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2025/12/11/uc-san-diego-finds-one-in-eight-freshmen-lack-high-school-math-skills/

The academic consequences of inadequate math ability are significant, the UCSD report indicated. Students who begin in remedial math have much lower rates of success in later math courses, and very few eventually complete engineering degrees.

Fascinating that this massive effect was found among students whose secondary schooling coincided with a two-year period when a pandemic killed more than 1 million people, closed many schools, and then prevented normal functioning of schools for an extended period after reopening.

But, no, it must be because of test optional admissions. Come on.

Why aren't the students at the test required schools seeing this same effect?
Why are we only seeing this among the test optional cohorts.
It's 2025, COVID is no longer a viable excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually think they trigger the other group

I am firmly in the test required camp and i am triggered. The quantum leap in the stupidification of america with test optional was disturbing. The students became so dumb all of a sudden. That a society would do this to themselves is mind boggling.

If an alien race came along and wanted to subjugate us, this i how they might start.

If someone else did this to us we would be at war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so weird to me how obsessed some of you are with test scores as the end all and be all—and I say this as someone with a kid who got at 36 on the ACT in their first and only try.

I don’t think this entitles my kid to admission over kids with lower or no test scores. I think TO is great. I am glad 95% of schools are still TO.

Some of you need to off X and get outside. Good lord.

I agree. I think it’s the parents of high scorers who can’t believe a student can show intelligence/ talent/ potential/ ambition/ drive in another way. Test blind has worked out just fine for California schools

Worked out just fine? https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2025/12/11/uc-san-diego-finds-one-in-eight-freshmen-lack-high-school-math-skills/

The academic consequences of inadequate math ability are significant, the UCSD report indicated. Students who begin in remedial math have much lower rates of success in later math courses, and very few eventually complete engineering degrees.

Fascinating that this massive effect was found among students whose secondary schooling coincided with a two-year period when a pandemic killed more than 1 million people, closed many schools, and then prevented normal functioning of schools for an extended period after reopening.

But, no, it must be because of test optional admissions. Come on.

Seriously? Had the school had the math SATs for these students, they would never have been admitted.

Or…math skills overall took a big hit because of pandemic-related educational disruptions, which would account for the extremely dramatic findings in the particular time period considered in this study:

The report shows a rapid change over just five years. Between 2020 and 2025, the number of incoming students whose math skills were below high school level rose nearly thirtyfold

Like, literally, many of these students had minimal math instruction for two years of this timeframe, years when they would have been getting instruction in pre-algebra, algebra, and geometry; that’s devastating to development of math skills. If tests had been required, I have no doubt that some would have been screened out by the SAT or ACT in this period. But many—particularly those with access to test tutoring—would not have been.

I’d love to see this study repeated in five and ten years. My guess is the results will be less dramatic. As we’re seeing with so many parts of society—think crime, which has fallen off a cliff in the last couple of years after a pandemic-related spike—the pandemic was disruptive in ways we are only starting to understand.

And yet it didn't seem to affect the cohorts at test required schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a horror.

I don’t know. I think colleges want to be able to reject a 1600 scores whose teacher recs say the kid is a cheater.

What about the kid who scores 1600 but has lots of Bs or didn't take any challenging classes? Why should a 3 hour test be more important than 4 years of performance?

Unlike the TO folks, people are saying that standardized tests should be required in conjunction with GPA and rigor. Nobody is arguing that grades should be ignored. It would be crazy to ignore data that allows you to make better decisions right?

The link was LITERALLY about using *only* the SAT. The word ONLY was even highlighted. So yes, the link in the OP is explicitly arguing that grades should be ignored.

He's shoving irony in your face my man. Ignoring test scores is nucking futz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you change the rules to just accepting by test scores and nothing else, the rich will still end up taking more than their fair share because they will spend all their money on test prep and what not and then will print much higher scores.

They just play by the current rules of the game which isn’t all about test scores.

Even looking at athletes, if Harvard now said we need all lax players to score 1550+, well now a bunch of D3 recruits will get recruited to Harvard because they have the stats (but just weren’t as strong a lax player for D1 under the old system).

You think they don't prep for tests now?
You don't know wtf you are talking about.
Wealthy families spend googobs of money on test prep but there is a limit to how much you can do before you find yourself pushing a rope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you change the rules to just accepting by test scores and nothing else, the rich will still end up taking more than their fair share because they will spend all their money on test prep and what not and then will print much higher scores.

They just play by the current rules of the game which isn’t all about test scores.

Even looking at athletes, if Harvard now said we need all lax players to score 1550+, well now a bunch of D3 recruits will get recruited to Harvard because they have the stats (but just weren’t as strong a lax player for D1 under the old system).

You think they don't prep for tests now?
You don't know wtf you are talking about.
Wealthy families spend googobs of money on test prep but there is a limit to how much you can do before you find yourself pushing a rope.

I don't think so. I think the trendy thing should be producing super heir through genetic modification or treatment. Why bother learning math when AI model can surpass human easily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you change the rules to just accepting by test scores and nothing else, the rich will still end up taking more than their fair share because they will spend all their money on test prep and what not and then will print much higher scores.

They just play by the current rules of the game which isn’t all about test scores.

Even looking at athletes, if Harvard now said we need all lax players to score 1550+, well now a bunch of D3 recruits will get recruited to Harvard because they have the stats (but just weren’t as strong a lax player for D1 under the old system).

You think they don't prep for tests now?
You don't know wtf you are talking about.
Wealthy families spend googobs of money on test prep but there is a limit to how much you can do before you find yourself pushing a rope.

It’s a completely different story if test scores were the only criteria…it’s why in Chinese prep schools, the wealthier students do better than the poorer students because only the test scores matter and the wealthier families through gobs of money at it.

Since that isn’t how the game works in the US, the resources are used in different ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually think they trigger the other group

I am firmly in the test required camp and i am triggered. The quantum leap in the stupidification of america with test optional was disturbing. The students became so dumb all of a sudden. That a society would do this to themselves is mind boggling.

If an alien race came along and wanted to subjugate us, this i how they might start.

If someone else did this to us we would be at war.

I'm on the other end. There needs to be more accountability on American schools. Why are thousands of kids in AP classes, learning nothing, and getting into top colleges? Make AP exam scores required, make the exams more difficult, and force schools to submit their ap average scores for each exam. GPA can, used to be, and should be the best predictor of success. High schools need to be pressured to curve to an average Gpa of 3.0 and eventually 2.0. 4.0s should be rare and standardized exams need to weigh your final score in a course. The SAT is a waste of time, and only the focus, because the kids are so dumb from the schools that pass 100s to anyone who completes the assignment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colleges found out they didn’t get the best of the best with just high test scores.

They are a business, they want to have the best alumni. Best test scores don’t give them that.


Again, you didn’t read the article. Holistic admissions allows schools to admit wealthy students and athletes instead of middle class kids with higher scores.

You are missing the point. Top schools optimize for outputs rather than optimizing inputs based on solely academic factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, here are some other studies (actual studies, not screenshots from X):

High School GPAs and ACT Scores as Predictors of College Completion: Examining Assumptions About Consistency Across High Schools: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0013189X20902110

Contextualized High School Performance: Evidence to Inform Equitable Holistic, Test-Optional, and Test-Free Admissions Policies https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/23328584231197413

Is the Sky Falling? Grade Inflation and the Signaling Power of Grades
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3102/0013189X13481382

Predicting College Success
How Do Different High School Assessments Measure Up?
https://edpolicyinca.org/publications/predicting-college-success-how-do-different-high-school-assessments-measure-2019

You forgot the UC study that looked at ALL the research and found that test scores were statistically significant in predicting college success. I believe that Purdue released similar research when they returned to test required.

No, I’m not forgetting that study. I’m noting that there are lots of studies with lots of different conclusions. Anyone saying that there’s a clear answer based on one study is not interested in the messy reality.

Which is why I’m a fan of test optional and holistic admissions—let schools figure out how to incorporate test scores. Let students emphasize their strengths. This is not a black and white issue, no matter how much you want it to be.

The larger and more comprehensive studies show that test scores are good (often the best) predictors of college performance. A few small underpowered studies showing something else aren’t particularly convincing. Even before the UC study Kuncel and Sackett at UMN used standardized test scores for millions of students and pretty conclusively showed that they’re the best predictor of college performance.

Pre Covid the body of research indicated that HS gpa was a better predictor than test scores. The difference isn’t huge but it was real and well documented. Post Covid this reversed and test scores are now the better predictor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A higher sat score measures academic grit, and resilience, that elusive quality…

It does? My ADHD riddled ass scored a top 1% score hung over from a hard night of drinking. Combined with my C+ it average it got me into a T50 back in the day where I was again able to be a C+ student. Pretty sure academic grit and resilience was never part of the equation.