When did the uber rich stop having live in servants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quality of service in America is horrible across the board - domestic help, at stores, at work, at school, on calls. Many are illiterate and/or ESOL- more lost in translations (voluntary or involuntary!).

Think of how many times you find mistakes in orders, sizes, your instructions, the final product? Now multiply that for someone you give the keys to your house and your kids to.

Other countries people have more pride in their work- like Japan. No need to double check anything.

Other countries domestic service industry is more professional- se Asia, Mideast, Eastern Europe. No matter, they get here, act entitled, assume everyone is a multi millionaire, and quality of service declines— especially if you’re weak at managing people and tasks.

So many do-the-bare-minimum workers here. Such a PITA. Thus when and if you find someone who cares you pay more. But do not pay more for imposters.

Um, no.

We're expats. I've had live-in help in multiple countries, including Russia, India, Singapore, and China. It isn't what you think. It isn't good for anybody, even the fortunate employers of the live-in help. In India, especially, you have to deaden part of your soul in order to share space with someone so very unfortunate, with so limited a future and so miserable a life, to have this, and EVERY lower to upper middle class to upper class person there has a maid. The maids are regularly taken out of school and put into live-in servant (slave) situations, and beating, rapes, and mistreatment of the help is, from what I saw, the norm. It warps something in the culture that embraces such a system.

That’s an exaggeration.

- multiple times expat and FSO

That's my post you responded to, and it absolutely is not an exaggeration.

We're in Singapore now, and I wouldn't say the "helpers", as live-in maids are called here, are treated well, but they are treated SO MUCH better than the house maids in India.

It's very much against egalitarian American culture to desire that kind of personal waiting on and as another PP said, it's seen as lazy, weak and a liability to not care for your own basics no matter how wealthy you are.

Anyone who feels so small inside (looking at you trump) who feels like this is a good system and they can lord it over people have something very wrong with them. People who brag about how it is in other countries are being very unself-aware and extremely out of touch.

[Anonymous]

We had a housekeeper from about 1965-1982. She did all of the cleaning and took care of three kids from 8-6 while my mom was at work. Most of the families on my street had the same set up and they were all Black women from the South.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother and MIL grew up with a full house staff in large homes. In my family, the housemaids lived in the top floor garret. The governess lived next to the girls' bedrooms on the third floor. My grandparents lived on the second floor, that also had guest rooms. My great-grandparents has a wing of the first floor. Rest of first floor was salons and dining room. Kitchen was in the basement.

Now they're in much smaller places: my mother hates having anyone come in and even refuses a cleaning lady, and my MIL has a rotation of aides that cook and clean for her, but they don't live in her house. The night nurse stays overnight, but doesn't "live" in the house.

I would love a daily maid, but I'm also a private person and would prefer she live in a separate building.

Are you a Vanderbilt?

No, European aristocracy. Castles, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rich Asian mom always says it's a hard and sad life in America that we have to live without helpers as we did overseas; she's shocked that I have to cook, clean, and do my own laundry.

I was also annoyed by this but i married an american spouse they seem to think i am entitled.

However, I bet once you experience the lifestyle of the asian upper class, you don't want to live in the US.

So go live in Asia? I don’t know what to tell you. Asian, European and Latin American “wealth” just doesn’t get you much here. America is expensive and culturally we value privacy.

We also value self-sufficiency. Most Americans find the idea of someone who relies on someone else to cook, clean, and do their laundry as deadweight. Even among the upper classes. That behavior is considered childish, and an adult who couldn't work wouldn't do them would be seen as burdensome to their family or a spouse.

Even our wealthiest friends cook most of their meals, do their own dishes, and do their own laundry. People will hire cleaners in to clean multiple times a week, wash and change sheets, organize the pantry, do deep cleaning like the fridge and the stove, mop floors, etc. But day to day, if your spouse couldn't rinse a dish a stick it in the dishwasher, prepare a simple meal, or wash and fold a load of laundry, it would be such a liability.

Yep, Americans value self-sufficiency. Many wealthy people overseas have no idea how to operate a vehicle and have a live-in driver who is available to them 24/7. On the other hand, very rich Americans will still drive sometimes and might not have a 24/7 driver. Of course, that's why our superrich people and celebrities getting DUIs is a thing.

We had house guests who are expats in a country where staff is the norm. I was stunned at the day to day behaviors they didn't even notice. It was eye opening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rich Asian mom always says it's a hard and sad life in America that we have to live without helpers as we did overseas; she's shocked that I have to cook, clean, and do my own laundry.

I was also annoyed by this but i married an american spouse they seem to think i am entitled.

However, I bet once you experience the lifestyle of the asian upper class, you don't want to live in the US.

So go live in Asia? I don’t know what to tell you. Asian, European and Latin American “wealth” just doesn’t get you much here. America is expensive and culturally we value privacy.

We also value self-sufficiency. Most Americans find the idea of someone who relies on someone else to cook, clean, and do their laundry as deadweight. Even among the upper classes. That behavior is considered childish, and an adult who couldn't work wouldn't do them would be seen as burdensome to their family or a spouse.

Even our wealthiest friends cook most of their meals, do their own dishes, and do their own laundry. People will hire cleaners in to clean multiple times a week, wash and change sheets, organize the pantry, do deep cleaning like the fridge and the stove, mop floors, etc. But day to day, if your spouse couldn't rinse a dish a stick it in the dishwasher, prepare a simple meal, or wash and fold a load of laundry, it would be such a liability.

Yep, Americans value self-sufficiency. Many wealthy people overseas have no idea how to operate a vehicle and have a live-in driver who is available to them 24/7. On the other hand, very rich Americans will still drive sometimes and might not have a 24/7 driver. Of course, that's why our superrich people and celebrities getting DUIs is a thing.

We had house guests who are expats in a country where staff is the norm. I was stunned at the day to day behaviors they didn't even notice. It was eye opening.

Like what? Tell us more!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

If you read literature of the prewar Era basically every household headed by a white-collar man has a housekeeper. Even if he's in his 20s working as a clerk. Would they have written this if it didn't ring true?

Every white collar worker also had an assigned secretary at work to do things like take dictation and messages, even if they weren't in a very high up position, and that's dwindling.

I work in pathology and a dozen MDs share a single secretary! (Administrative assistant). She appears to be in her 70s and I doubt they'll replace her when she retires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quality of service in America is horrible across the board - domestic help, at stores, at work, at school, on calls. Many are illiterate and/or ESOL- more lost in translations (voluntary or involuntary!).

Think of how many times you find mistakes in orders, sizes, your instructions, the final product? Now multiply that for someone you give the keys to your house and your kids to.

Other countries people have more pride in their work- like Japan. No need to double check anything.

Other countries domestic service industry is more professional- se Asia, Mideast, Eastern Europe. No matter, they get here, act entitled, assume everyone is a multi millionaire, and quality of service declines— especially if you’re weak at managing people and tasks.

So many do-the-bare-minimum workers here. Such a PITA. Thus when and if you find someone who cares you pay more. But do not pay more for imposters.

Really. We need to bring back public caning. /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

Some circumstantial evidence: most of the larger pre-war apartments in NYC’s nicer buildings were built with maid quarters- a small room with en suite bathroom, located behind the kitchen. This is not just in fancy areas of Manhattan; the 6 story pre-war buildings in outer boroughs are built the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

If you read literature of the prewar Era basically every household headed by a white-collar man has a housekeeper. Even if he's in his 20s working as a clerk. Would they have written this if it didn't ring true?

Every white collar worker also had an assigned secretary at work to do things like take dictation and messages, even if they weren't in a very high up position, and that's dwindling.

At my law firm in the 2010s, I had a secretary as a first year associate. She took notes during meetings, sent ticklers, and other admin stuff. She also picked up my dry cleaning, arranged the town car for me, planned my trips, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP who says that the staff doesn't have keys knows nothing. Obviously nobody wants to have to open the door every time someone comes to work at the house. Ridiculous.

When I nannied for a billionaire, his house manager gave us a keypad code to enter/exit parts of the property. They were always watching remotely. I assume when you're done, they just change the code.

No, they have different codes for different people. That way they know who’s coming and who’s going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP who says that the staff doesn't have keys knows nothing. Obviously nobody wants to have to open the door every time someone comes to work at the house. Ridiculous.

When I nannied for a billionaire, his house manager gave us a keypad code to enter/exit parts of the property. They were always watching remotely. I assume when you're done, they just change the code.

No, they have different codes for different people. That way they know who’s coming and who’s going.

You too can have this fancy technology with a yale lock for $200. This is not rocket science.

[Anonymous]

Only our houses in Europe have accommodations for live-in help. Those houses are also a bit more remote than our US residences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most in home housekeepers and staff have their own place and come to the jobsite to work just like you and I.

Ok, but when did this change?

After World War II like the other poster said. During World War II servants left their in home servant jobs to work factory jobs for the war effort. They never returned to being in home servants. This is true in the US and in also in Europe.

This is what happened to my father’s household. After the war servants were much more expensive. My grandmother was not thrilled about having to raise 5 kids with reduced help.

My eyes are rolling too.

This. With men away at war, women without college degrees were offered jobs in factories, shipyards, agriculture, and even offices that were not previously available to them. These jobs paid much better than domestic work and many stayed after the war.

[Anonymous]

I looked at the 1900-1950 census for the neighborhood I grew up in (not DC).

In 1920 many houses- not grand mansions, just houses or duplexes- listed live-in servants. By 1930, very few did. By 1950 many homeowners who didn’t come out even maintaining their initial economic level were renting rooms out.

[Anonymous]

Come out = following WW2