When did the uber rich stop having live in servants?

[Anonymous]

My parents lived in a very nice Brownstone in Manhattan where every apartment came with a designated 4th floor "storage room" that used to be the floor where the servants lived 80-100 years ago.

No plumbing because they originally used chamber pots etc. My brother once lived in my parents "storage unit" for like 2 years and had to go downstairs to my parents' place to bathe and use the bathroom, but it's also not unlike a lot of typical college dorm situations where you have to do exactly the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quality of service in America is horrible across the board - domestic help, at stores, at work, at school, on calls. Many are illiterate and/or ESOL- more lost in translations (voluntary or involuntary!).

Think of how many times you find mistakes in orders, sizes, your instructions, the final product? Now multiply that for someone you give the keys to your house and your kids to.

Other countries people have more pride in their work- like Japan. No need to double check anything.

Other countries domestic service industry is more professional- se Asia, Mideast, Eastern Europe. No matter, they get here, act entitled, assume everyone is a multi millionaire, and quality of service declines— especially if you’re weak at managing people and tasks.

So many do-the-bare-minimum workers here. Such a PITA. Thus when and if you find someone who cares you pay more. But do not pay more for imposters.

Um, no.

We're expats. I've had live-in help in multiple countries, including Russia, India, Singapore, and China. It isn't what you think. It isn't good for anybody, even the fortunate employers of the live-in help. In India, especially, you have to deaden part of your soul in order to share space with someone so very unfortunate, with so limited a future and so miserable a life, to have this, and EVERY lower to upper middle class to upper class person there has a maid. The maids are regularly taken out of school and put into live-in servant (slave) situations, and beating, rapes, and mistreatment of the help is, from what I saw, the norm. It warps something in the culture that embraces such a system.

That’s an exaggeration.

- multiple times expat and FSO

That's my post you responded to, and it absolutely is not an exaggeration.

We're in Singapore now, and I wouldn't say the "helpers", as live-in maids are called here, are treated well, but they are treated SO MUCH better than the house maids in India.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quality of service in America is horrible across the board - domestic help, at stores, at work, at school, on calls. Many are illiterate and/or ESOL- more lost in translations (voluntary or involuntary!).

Think of how many times you find mistakes in orders, sizes, your instructions, the final product? Now multiply that for someone you give the keys to your house and your kids to.

Other countries people have more pride in their work- like Japan. No need to double check anything.

Other countries domestic service industry is more professional- se Asia, Mideast, Eastern Europe. No matter, they get here, act entitled, assume everyone is a multi millionaire, and quality of service declines— especially if you’re weak at managing people and tasks.

So many do-the-bare-minimum workers here. Such a PITA. Thus when and if you find someone who cares you pay more. But do not pay more for imposters.

Um, no.

We're expats. I've had live-in help in multiple countries, including Russia, India, Singapore, and China. It isn't what you think. It isn't good for anybody, even the fortunate employers of the live-in help. In India, especially, you have to deaden part of your soul in order to share space with someone so very unfortunate, with so limited a future and so miserable a life, to have this, and EVERY lower to upper middle class to upper class person there has a maid. The maids are regularly taken out of school and put into live-in servant (slave) situations, and beating, rapes, and mistreatment of the help is, from what I saw, the norm. It warps something in the culture that embraces such a system.

That’s an exaggeration.

- multiple times expat and FSO

No it isn't:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3j0e79q52o

https://www.dw.com/en/indias-domestic-workers-face-abuse-exploitation/a-64920455

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-64594779

And you have clearly never lived in India.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In northern Virginia, a woman was caught not paying her "servant" (more like enslaved person) and had taken the "servant's" passport so there could be no escape. As you can imagine, this person was not treated well by their master and mistress.

Horrifying. So, this still occurs.

Overall, OP, I agree with you on this. You'd think people would have more security at least, yet maybe they did a risk assessment and decided it was not really necessary.

There was another famous person who died and was not discovered for days. His wife also died. They thought she died first and, because he had dementia, he did not report it. Then, he also died, maybe from dehydration because he could not care for himself. One of their two dogs died because it was in the crate. Only the dog out of the crate was able to survive.

You can just say it's Gene Hackman, you know. It was recent, and he was A- list. All over every news source. You don't have to pretend like it's some long ago tale about someone we haven't heard of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that when Rob Reiner died, he wasn’t discovered until hours later by his daughter. I would have assumed that he had an in home maid or cook who would have discovered him. . I had the same surprise when Ivana Trump died and she wasn’t discovered until a day or so later. It seems that at least up to the 1930s, extremely wealthy households had live in maids, cooks, butlers, and chauffeurs. At least that is how it was depicted in books and movies.

Having grown up middle class, I have no idea how the uber rich actually live or when the culture of having live in servants changed. I figure DCUM has a lot of people who aren’t far removed from the ultra wealthy and can offer some insight into the culture of what their lifestyle is actually like.

Different rich people spend money differently. Apparently, he paid for his son re-hab treatments since his age of 15, and he was in at least 17 long term recovery programs that can add up to millions.

Most normal parents would let the ADULT go to prison, even after all that gentle parenting, he ended up nutso and killed them, totally ungrateful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother and MIL grew up with a full house staff in large homes. In my family, the housemaids lived in the top floor garret. The governess lived next to the girls' bedrooms on the third floor. My grandparents lived on the second floor, that also had guest rooms. My great-grandparents has a wing of the first floor. Rest of first floor was salons and dining room. Kitchen was in the basement.

Now they're in much smaller places: my mother hates having anyone come in and even refuses a cleaning lady, and my MIL has a rotation of aides that cook and clean for her, but they don't live in her house. The night nurse stays overnight, but doesn't "live" in the house.

I would love a daily maid, but I'm also a private person and would prefer she live in a separate building.

Are you a Vanderbilt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

[Anonymous]

The au pair industry remains alive and well in the US, despite it being more analogous to slavery than employment.

[Anonymous]

It's not really an American thing in this day and age. More something that is done in other coutnries.

[Anonymous]

Even the wealthy elderly with 24/7 care needs don't really have live in help, they have rotating caregivers that come in. At most they may spend the night during the week and then go home during weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

If you read literature of the prewar Era basically every household headed by a white-collar man has a housekeeper. Even if he's in his 20s working as a clerk. Would they have written this if it didn't ring true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rich Asian mom always says it's a hard and sad life in America that we have to live without helpers as we did overseas; she's shocked that I have to cook, clean, and do my own laundry.

I was also annoyed by this but i married an american spouse they seem to think i am entitled.

However, I bet once you experience the lifestyle of the asian upper class, you don't want to live in the US.

So go live in Asia? I don’t know what to tell you. Asian, European and Latin American “wealth” just doesn’t get you much here. America is expensive and culturally we value privacy.

We also value self-sufficiency. Most Americans find the idea of someone who relies on someone else to cook, clean, and do their laundry as deadweight. Even among the upper classes. That behavior is considered childish, and an adult who couldn't work wouldn't do them would be seen as burdensome to their family or a spouse.

Even our wealthiest friends cook most of their meals, do their own dishes, and do their own laundry. People will hire cleaners in to clean multiple times a week, wash and change sheets, organize the pantry, do deep cleaning like the fridge and the stove, mop floors, etc. But day to day, if your spouse couldn't rinse a dish a stick it in the dishwasher, prepare a simple meal, or wash and fold a load of laundry, it would be such a liability.

Yep, Americans value self-sufficiency. Many wealthy people overseas have no idea how to operate a vehicle and have a live-in driver who is available to them 24/7. On the other hand, very rich Americans will still drive sometimes and might not have a 24/7 driver. Of course, that's why our superrich people and celebrities getting DUIs is a thing.

[Anonymous]

I think back to my grandparents who had a washing machine and a roll wringer that would extract water over a slop sink, then the clothes would get hung up, it probably added hours to the day over grabbing them from the washer and throwing them in the dryer. If it was a family of four washing clothes would take 15 hours a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most in home housekeepers and staff have their own place and come to the jobsite to work just like you and I.

Ok, but when did this change?

After World War II like the other poster said. During World War II servants left their in home servant jobs to work factory jobs for the war effort. They never returned to being in home servants. This is true in the US and in also in Europe.

This is what happened to my father’s household. After the war servants were much more expensive. My grandmother was not thrilled about having to raise 5 kids with reduced help.

My eyes are rolling too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Live in help was commonplace for the UMC up through the 1940s. Cheap immigrant labor and cheap black labor made it possible, along with far fewer labor saving devices. Cooking wasn't as fun as it is today, for example. And when it's relatively cheap to have many servants, the very wealthy could create lifestyles and elaborate homes based on having full staff, their lives were really that much more formal.

After the war the pool of affordable labor dried up, though lasted another 20 years for inexpensive black labor, but by the late 60s it was rapidly fading out for the UMC (according to my mother, it went from 1940s live in to 1950s daily help who came in the morning and left once she got dinner ready to the 1960s several times a week to the 1970s once a week). Labor costs spared and now comes with all the social and Healthcare benefits if you have full time help.

There are still very wealthy with help but even that world has changed. It's far more private, people don't want to see help around so they're not waited upon at the table, but the help takes on different forms. You have personal assistants, personal stylists, personal chefs, house managers.

Something tells me that your definition of UMC is a lot different from mine.

If you read literature of the prewar Era basically every household headed by a white-collar man has a housekeeper. Even if he's in his 20s working as a clerk. Would they have written this if it didn't ring true?

Every white collar worker also had an assigned secretary at work to do things like take dictation and messages, even if they weren't in a very high up position, and that's dwindling.