IB Costs Increasing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have kids with 3 IBHL classes, maybe, on their HS transcript for college credit, and kids with 6-10 AP classes for college credit. You tell me which one is a better option for kids attending college? AP students learn how to write, they take English classes before the AP classes, just like the IB kids, and learn how to write and think about text. They do perfectly well in college. And they can either save money by needing one year less of college or open up space for a second major or more electives that they enjoy or for studying overseas and not worrying about jamming in required classes.

To be clear, I think you're not considering that IB HL courses consist of a pair of courses that are equivalent to two AP courses as a series in most cases. For example passing the IB English HL exam gives equivalent credit as passing both the AP Language and AP Lit exams. IB Math Analysis HL is equivalent to AP Precalculus AB and AP Calculus AB combined. IB History HL as APUSH and AP World, etc.
Still your point is stands, but it's not 3 IB college courses versus 6-10 AP college courses (actually IB allows a max of four HL).

You are misinformed about the credit IB gets. Link to a college external policy if you have one.

For example at UVA, Math HL only gets credit for one semester of calculus, AP Calculus BC is equivalent to two semesters.

Same with English and History, although some credit is for electives, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

Credit is more consistent for AP, and more variable for BC, but generally speaking a one year long AP class gets the same credit as a two year HL class.

Why are you all so focused on college credits? IB is about creating life long learners which is so much more important.

College credit not only can save tuition money, but it’s a measure of course rigor, that much should be obvious. You have zero evidence that IB is about creating long life learners, besides the stupid IBO marketing pamphlets you are regurgitating here. Are you claiming IB students are more lifelong learners than AP students? What does that even mean? Critical thinking at its finest, you must be the unapologetic product of an IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is MLL ?

MLL = Multilingual Learners

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have kids with 3 IBHL classes, maybe, on their HS transcript for college credit, and kids with 6-10 AP classes for college credit. You tell me which one is a better option for kids attending college? AP students learn how to write, they take English classes before the AP classes, just like the IB kids, and learn how to write and think about text. They do perfectly well in college. And they can either save money by needing one year less of college or open up space for a second major or more electives that they enjoy or for studying overseas and not worrying about jamming in required classes.

To be clear, I think you're not considering that IB HL courses consist of a pair of courses that are equivalent to two AP courses as a series in most cases. For example passing the IB English HL exam gives equivalent credit as passing both the AP Language and AP Lit exams. IB Math Analysis HL is equivalent to AP Precalculus AB and AP Calculus AB combined. IB History HL as APUSH and AP World, etc.
Still your point is stands, but it's not 3 IB college courses versus 6-10 AP college courses (actually IB allows a max of four HL).

You are misinformed about the credit IB gets. Link to a college external policy if you have one.

For example at UVA, Math HL only gets credit for one semester of calculus, AP Calculus BC is equivalent to two semesters.

Same with English and History, although some credit is for electives, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

Credit is more consistent for AP, and more variable for BC, but generally speaking a one year long AP class gets the same credit as a two year HL class.

Why are you all so focused on college credits? IB is about creating life long learners which is so much more important.

College credit not only can save tuition money, but it’s a measure of course rigor, that much should be obvious. You have zero evidence that IB is about creating long life learners, besides the stupid IBO marketing pamphlets you are regurgitating here. Are you claiming IB students are more lifelong learners than AP students? What does that even mean? Critical thinking at its finest, you must be the unapologetic product of an IB school.

Lighten up Francis!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have kids with 3 IBHL classes, maybe, on their HS transcript for college credit, and kids with 6-10 AP classes for college credit. You tell me which one is a better option for kids attending college? AP students learn how to write, they take English classes before the AP classes, just like the IB kids, and learn how to write and think about text. They do perfectly well in college. And they can either save money by needing one year less of college or open up space for a second major or more electives that they enjoy or for studying overseas and not worrying about jamming in required classes.

To be clear, I think you're not considering that IB HL courses consist of a pair of courses that are equivalent to two AP courses as a series in most cases. For example passing the IB English HL exam gives equivalent credit as passing both the AP Language and AP Lit exams. IB Math Analysis HL is equivalent to AP Precalculus AB and AP Calculus AB combined. IB History HL as APUSH and AP World, etc.
Still your point is stands, but it's not 3 IB college courses versus 6-10 AP college courses (actually IB allows a max of four HL).

You are misinformed about the credit IB gets. Link to a college external policy if you have one.

For example at UVA, Math HL only gets credit for one semester of calculus, AP Calculus BC is equivalent to two semesters.

Same with English and History, although some credit is for electives, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

Credit is more consistent for AP, and more variable for BC, but generally speaking a one year long AP class gets the same credit as a two year HL class.

Why are you all so focused on college credits? IB is about creating life long learners which is so much more important.

Don't forget that it creates "global citizens," too!

In the past, when our kids were starting to come down with a cold, we made sure they got chicken noodle soup or some pho. But now we just have them focus on an IB assignment, and the cold goes right away. IB is so amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have kids with 3 IBHL classes, maybe, on their HS transcript for college credit, and kids with 6-10 AP classes for college credit. You tell me which one is a better option for kids attending college? AP students learn how to write, they take English classes before the AP classes, just like the IB kids, and learn how to write and think about text. They do perfectly well in college. And they can either save money by needing one year less of college or open up space for a second major or more electives that they enjoy or for studying overseas and not worrying about jamming in required classes.

To be clear, I think you're not considering that IB HL courses consist of a pair of courses that are equivalent to two AP courses as a series in most cases. For example passing the IB English HL exam gives equivalent credit as passing both the AP Language and AP Lit exams. IB Math Analysis HL is equivalent to AP Precalculus AB and AP Calculus AB combined. IB History HL as APUSH and AP World, etc.
Still your point is stands, but it's not 3 IB college courses versus 6-10 AP college courses (actually IB allows a max of four HL).

You are misinformed about the credit IB gets. Link to a college external policy if you have one.

For example at UVA, Math HL only gets credit for one semester of calculus, AP Calculus BC is equivalent to two semesters.

Same with English and History, although some credit is for electives, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

Credit is more consistent for AP, and more variable for BC, but generally speaking a one year long AP class gets the same credit as a two year HL class.

Why are you all so focused on college credits? IB is about creating life long learners which is so much more important.

College credit not only can save tuition money, but it’s a measure of course rigor, that much should be obvious. You have zero evidence that IB is about creating long life learners, besides the stupid IBO marketing pamphlets you are regurgitating here. Are you claiming IB students are more lifelong learners than AP students? What does that even mean? Critical thinking at its finest, you must be the unapologetic product of an IB school.

Lighten up Francis!

Sorry I’m allergic to IBO talking points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way IB ever would have taken off in FCPS would have been if they’d eliminated AP at the remaining schools. Otherwise the strength of peer groups always trumps programming.

IB may teach critical thinking but IB proponents falsely imply nothing else does, and they refuse to scrutinize the costs.

Because IB does not actually teach critical thinking.

What critical thinking is IB teaching, can anyone give an example?

English is not that different between IB and AP. It’s not like text analysis and essay structure is changed drastically.

For what is worth our local community college has an English class called “Critical Thinking in Reading and writing”. It’s still analysis, critique, logic, deduction. Basically what’s covert in AP Lang.

[Anonymous]

IB is so unpopular, so unfortunate that it’s being pushed on students despite its shortcomings. Someone’s is getting a fat commission out of that contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is so unpopular, so unfortunate that it’s being pushed on students despite its shortcomings. Someone’s is getting a fat commission out of that contract.

The question is: WHY?

It would make sense if it were the contract--but I really believe this is just stubbornness on the part of the supporters.

But, meanwhile, they should be doing audits on ALL contracts. As a very young teacher I learned about textbook selection and free stuff. Special programs like Title I are not exempt.

[Anonymous]

IB is offered in every county around us, it is something that some people really like. The difference is the counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program but they offer AP at the schools with IB. Kids apply to participate in the IB diploma program, not just take a few IB classes. The rest of the school takes AP.

FCPS runs the program differently and could care less about the diploma or the lack of people taking HL classes. They just bumped IBSL classes to a 1.0 weight, like the HL classes. There was a reason SL classes were a .5 bump.

I was just talking to a friend who has a kid at SLHS and another who will be going to the new HS. They are thrilled to be getting away from IB. Several of their friends warned them about keeping the syllabus from any IB class and completed class work because their kids needed that to get credit for the IB exams that they took. It took a lot of leg work on the kids part at college.

FCPS can’t even give the correct advice to 8th graders heading to SLHS, many of the people I know were told that their kid didnt need to worry about a foreign language in 8th grade only to find out that they needed the language to earn the diploma. That is how little the counselors know about the program or care about the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is offered in every county around us, it is something that some people really like. The difference is the counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program but they offer AP at the schools with IB. Kids apply to participate in the IB diploma program, not just take a few IB classes. The rest of the school takes AP.

FCPS runs the program differently and could care less about the diploma or the lack of people taking HL classes. They just bumped IBSL classes to a 1.0 weight, like the HL classes. There was a reason SL classes were a .5 bump.

I was just talking to a friend who has a kid at SLHS and another who will be going to the new HS. They are thrilled to be getting away from IB. Several of their friends warned them about keeping the syllabus from any IB class and completed class work because their kids needed that to get credit for the IB exams that they took. It took a lot of leg work on the kids part at college.

FCPS can’t even give the correct advice to 8th graders heading to SLHS, many of the people I know were told that their kid didnt need to worry about a foreign language in 8th grade only to find out that they needed the language to earn the diploma. That is how little the counselors know about the program or care about the program.

Doesn't that fall on the counselors at South Lakes to inform them and Gatehouse. Seriously, what do the people at Gatehouse do? Who is in charge of IB at Gatehouse?
It seems like keeping counselors informed would be a key element of the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is offered in every county around us, it is something that some people really like. The difference is the counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program but they offer AP at the schools with IB. Kids apply to participate in the IB diploma program, not just take a few IB classes. The rest of the school takes AP.

FCPS runs the program differently and could care less about the diploma or the lack of people taking HL classes. They just bumped IBSL classes to a 1.0 weight, like the HL classes. There was a reason SL classes were a .5 bump.

I was just talking to a friend who has a kid at SLHS and another who will be going to the new HS. They are thrilled to be getting away from IB. Several of their friends warned them about keeping the syllabus from any IB class and completed class work because their kids needed that to get credit for the IB exams that they took. It took a lot of leg work on the kids part at college.

FCPS can’t even give the correct advice to 8th graders heading to SLHS, many of the people I know were told that their kid didnt need to worry about a foreign language in 8th grade only to find out that they needed the language to earn the diploma. That is how little the counselors know about the program or care about the program.

Doesn't that fall on the counselors at South Lakes to inform them and Gatehouse. Seriously, what do the people at Gatehouse do? Who is in charge of IB at Gatehouse?
It seems like keeping counselors informed would be a key element of the job.

I don't think this is a South Lakes issue. It's more of an issue for counselors at Carson, in particular, not telling South Lakes-bound kids which courses they should take as 8th graders if they might be interested in an IB diploma in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is offered in every county around us, it is something that some people really like. The difference is the counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program but they offer AP at the schools with IB. Kids apply to participate in the IB diploma program, not just take a few IB classes. The rest of the school takes AP.

FCPS runs the program differently and could care less about the diploma or the lack of people taking HL classes. They just bumped IBSL classes to a 1.0 weight, like the HL classes. There was a reason SL classes were a .5 bump.

I was just talking to a friend who has a kid at SLHS and another who will be going to the new HS. They are thrilled to be getting away from IB. Several of their friends warned them about keeping the syllabus from any IB class and completed class work because their kids needed that to get credit for the IB exams that they took. It took a lot of leg work on the kids part at college.

FCPS can’t even give the correct advice to 8th graders heading to SLHS, many of the people I know were told that their kid didnt need to worry about a foreign language in 8th grade only to find out that they needed the language to earn the diploma. That is how little the counselors know about the program or care about the program.

Doesn't that fall on the counselors at South Lakes to inform them and Gatehouse. Seriously, what do the people at Gatehouse do? Who is in charge of IB at Gatehouse?
It seems like keeping counselors informed would be a key element of the job.

I don't think this is a South Lakes issue. It's more of an issue for counselors at Carson, in particular, not telling South Lakes-bound kids which courses they should take as 8th graders if they might be interested in an IB diploma in HS.

Well, then that falls on whoever is in charge of counselors. Who is in charge at Gatehouse? It is very difficult to find an organization chart on the website. Isn't there someone in charge of AP and IB there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is offered in every county around us, it is something that some people really like. The difference is the counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program but they offer AP at the schools with IB. Kids apply to participate in the IB diploma program, not just take a few IB classes. The rest of the school takes AP.

FCPS runs the program differently and could care less about the diploma or the lack of people taking HL classes. They just bumped IBSL classes to a 1.0 weight, like the HL classes. There was a reason SL classes were a .5 bump.

I was just talking to a friend who has a kid at SLHS and another who will be going to the new HS. They are thrilled to be getting away from IB. Several of their friends warned them about keeping the syllabus from any IB class and completed class work because their kids needed that to get credit for the IB exams that they took. It took a lot of leg work on the kids part at college.

FCPS can’t even give the correct advice to 8th graders heading to SLHS, many of the people I know were told that their kid didnt need to worry about a foreign language in 8th grade only to find out that they needed the language to earn the diploma. That is how little the counselors know about the program or care about the program.

Doesn't that fall on the counselors at South Lakes to inform them and Gatehouse. Seriously, what do the people at Gatehouse do? Who is in charge of IB at Gatehouse?
It seems like keeping counselors informed would be a key element of the job.

It falls on the Counselors at Carson who are still telling parents that their kids don’t need a foreign language in 8th grade. The chair of the Languages department said it in front of me more than once and was annoyed when I corrected her. It was written on paperwork that they were giving to parents of 7th graders. The number of parents who have complained about this is high. But it is still happening.

If you are going to have the program, educate the people who are giving class guidance to kids so the kids get the correct information.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think this is a SLHS only problem re: bad advice on IB program course sequencing.

We’re at Robinson and with my oldest it was not made clear that the FL requirement was 5 years of the same language (yeah now I understand why and it seems dumb in hindsight but she was our first and I didn’t know she couldn’t just swap to a different language if she did not like the first one).

Similar problem with my second but the other direction - he had a base in one FL that we wanted him to continue making progress in so had him start it in 7th. Only at the 8th grade course selection session (for going into 9th) did I then learn that is a bad idea in IB schools because of needing to take the test only senior year so that then leaves you having to duplicate a class or have a lapse in language exposure before the test. No one explained this when 7th grade classes were being selected. I also can’t get a genuinely straight answer from the school on how much extra work the TOK and diploma route is vs just doing all the curricular classes that would otherwise be required.

So even at schools that do IB “well” the counseling for it is really lacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is a SLHS only problem re: bad advice on IB program course sequencing.

We’re at Robinson and with my oldest it was not made clear that the FL requirement was 5 years of the same language (yeah now I understand why and it seems dumb in hindsight but she was our first and I didn’t know she couldn’t just swap to a different language if she did not like the first one).

Similar problem with my second but the other direction - he had a base in one FL that we wanted him to continue making progress in so had him start it in 7th. Only at the 8th grade course selection session (for going into 9th) did I then learn that is a bad idea in IB schools because of needing to take the test only senior year so that then leaves you having to duplicate a class or have a lapse in language exposure before the test. No one explained this when 7th grade classes were being selected. I also can’t get a genuinely straight answer from the school on how much extra work the TOK and diploma route is vs just doing all the curricular classes that would otherwise be required.

So even at schools that do IB “well” the counseling for it is really lacking.

They need to eliminate IB. This is ridiculous with all the rules. No flexibility at all.