Medical School Admissions - rejection, gap year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enroll in either a post-bac (Pitt) or the SMP (Georgetown).

Good Luck!

A lot of people mentioned post-bac.

Isn't it mainly for humanities major folks? So that they could take required courses (stem requirement math/chem/bio).

What's the point of post-bac if you were already on premed track and just gap for a year?

What post-bac can offer that you can't do on your own?

No, it is not mainly for humanities folks. I'm very familiar with this, and I can say that Georgetown's program is mainly students who had majored in science and had been pre med in college who were rejected their first cycle of applying, or who knew their stats were not good enough to be applying immediately. The point is that it shows med schools you can be successful with this kind of material at the grad level.

PP here. Sorry got mixed up with the reference to post bacc and thought you were talking about the anat/phys masters programs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Well, op’s kid found out the hard way what happens when the app isn’t good enough. Current medical school admissions expectations require a year or two year gap to get a competitive application for most kids.

Then why do they interview and admit students who are still currently in undergrad?

Because those students clearly were superstars and had better stats. It's about 20% and decreasing.

For undergrads from ivy and similar undergrads, about 40% get in as seniors (no gap), and the med schools they go to tend to be top-20 level! A gap is not needed for a large segment of these students, and not desired by many of them. Some admissions committees have begun to speak out that they do not prefer gaps (UCD), rather top students think gaps are preferred and tend to take them especially if not from top schools that have a culture of a large group of non-gappers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect most here are not physicians nor have worked in med admissions. I am both, different from the poster a few posts up. I went to a T5 med school and did admissions for them, as well as run med admissions advising with a couple of other physicians. What we see, among those that do not gt in, is that their MCAT is often below 505 yet they apply anyway. IF they have above 515 and get in no where it is rare, and is often because they do not apply to schools where 515 is the top end of the score range, their GPA was below 3.5, or they have a lackluster transcript, often skipping recommended premed courses such as molecular bio, sometimes skipping required courses.
No one with 3.9+/520+ gets rejected unless they have no schools below the T50 or have serious red flags on app ie no volunteering, missed courses, et al.
Top undergrad programs, as in top flagships or T25 private types generally advise very well . The applicants have all the prereqs and more. That is not the case from some schools. We advise those students to take 1-2 gaps and boost the lacking area such as a Postbacc if the coursework or grades are borderline.

+1. I also want to add that it only gets harder in medical school, residency, and fellowship so if med school admissions is problematic I am deeply concerned about students afterwards. The tests get a lot harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enroll in either a post-bac (Pitt) or the SMP (Georgetown).

Good Luck!

A lot of people mentioned post-bac.

Isn't it mainly for humanities major folks? So that they could take required courses (stem requirement math/chem/bio).

What's the point of post-bac if you were already on premed track and just gap for a year?

What post-bac can offer that you can't do on your own?

No, it is not mainly for humanities folks. I'm very familiar with this, and I can say that Georgetown's program is mainly students who had majored in science and had been pre med in college who were rejected their first cycle of applying, or who knew their stats were not good enough to be applying immediately. The point is that it shows med schools you can be successful with this kind of material at the grad level.

+1 The GTown program was extremely popular and successful for borderline GPA candidates from my elite private 25 years ago. They loved admitting students from our school, and our students usually did very well, graduating near the top and getting into med school afterwards. Premed advisors pushed this and similar programs instead of applying--so as to put the best foot forward with the first application. That recommendation has not changed. The students are often compared to each other with direct rank in these programs and can be more competitive than undergrad premed depending on where one attended undergrad. One has to be careful to choose one where the competition will be the right mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enroll in either a post-bac (Pitt) or the SMP (Georgetown).

Good Luck!

A lot of people mentioned post-bac.

Isn't it mainly for humanities major folks? So that they could take required courses (stem requirement math/chem/bio).

What's the point of post-bac if you were already on premed track and just gap for a year?

What post-bac can offer that you can't do on your own?

If you have already taken the premed classes, there is no point in a post bacc and in fact, your kid isn’t eligible. A masters in a science may be a way for your kid to improve their science grades.

This is not universally true - there are plenty of schools that offer "record enhancer" or "academic enhancer" post-bacs even if you have already completed most or all of the requirements. Some come with a masters and some with a grad certificate but not a masters. GW is one example:

"GW SMHS also has post-bacc academic enhancer programs for students who have completed the pre-medical prerequisites but want to increase their science GPA. The Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology offers two programs at the graduate level: a one-year Graduate Certificate in Anatomical and Translational Sciences (GCATS) and a two-year Master of Science in Anatomical and Translational Sciences (M-ATS)."

https://prehealth.gwu.edu/post-baccalaureate-programs

Is there any point in doing this if you already have the prereqs and a high science GPA? Do any result in preferential chances for admission to that university's med school?

There is no point if you have a 3.9 science GPA and did not miss any required or recommended courses. You should spend a gap year doing something you are missing (clinicals, volunterring, research), or maybe you do not need a gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect most here are not physicians nor have worked in med admissions. I am both, different from the poster a few posts up. I went to a T5 med school and did admissions for them, as well as run med admissions advising with a couple of other physicians. What we see, among those that do not gt in, is that their MCAT is often below 505 yet they apply anyway. IF they have above 515 and get in no where it is rare, and is often because they do not apply to schools where 515 is the top end of the score range, their GPA was below 3.5, or they have a lackluster transcript, often skipping recommended premed courses such as molecular bio, sometimes skipping required courses.
No one with 3.9+/520+ gets rejected unless they have no schools below the T50 or have serious red flags on app ie no volunteering, missed courses, et al.
Top undergrad programs, as in top flagships or T25 private types generally advise very well . The applicants have all the prereqs and more. That is not the case from some schools. We advise those students to take 1-2 gaps and boost the lacking area such as a Postbacc if the coursework or grades are borderline.

+1. I also want to add that it only gets harder in medical school, residency, and fellowship so if med school admissions is problematic I am deeply concerned about students afterwards. The tests get a lot harder.

My daughter is in the middle of the process and the above is why she doesn’t want to hire a tutor for studying for the mcat. (She’s doing some study method, studying every day for two hours, periodically taking practice tests, etc). She told me that if she needed a tutor to get into med school she’d be screwed when the much harder tests come down the line in med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCAT + research at NIH

That’s what my daughter says too- gold standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAT + research at NIH

That’s what my daughter says too- gold standard.

Are people finding these positions open at NIH? My daughter had one lined up last year for her gap year and it got pulled because of lack of funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are his GPA and MCAT? Clinical experience? Research? How many published papers? Use the gap year to boost any one of his weak points.

For target schools: Overall GPA I believe is higher, science GPA meets or exceeds, MCAT at median or a little below, depending on school. Has clinical, lacking research and publications.

What clinical experience is viewed most favorably?

Get someone in med admissions consulting to give her feedback, or have her ask her school's premed advisor what happened.
For example, MCAT "at or below" median: if the MCAT is 509-512, the majority of students with this MCAT range need a gap year if not two, unless they have a demographic hook(yes those are a real thing for med school). That score is the "median" for admitted kids because they all have gaps with lots of other impressive things to make up for that ho-hum MCAT, whereas your student has the same MCAT yet nothing outstanding. Those schools understand that they generally get students in a certain MCAT range--they want the best in that range. Non-gap year success stories are almost always 520+ with a 3.9+ science GPA. 515-519 is a gray area for non-gap. It works out sometimes. Below 513 is a no-go for no gap year without hooks. Every undergrad has their own stats on this, which premed advisors use to advise whther to gap and what to do with the gap; I am glazing over a lot of details to make the advice as generic as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAT + research at NIH

That’s what my daughter says too- gold standard.

Are people finding these positions open at NIH? My daughter had one lined up last year for her gap year and it got pulled because of lack of funding.

Any other intense science research of 2-3 semesters or two summers will suffice, as an undergrad or as a gap year. NIH is much harder to get now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAT + research at NIH

That’s what my daughter says too- gold standard.

Are people finding these positions open at NIH? My daughter had one lined up last year for her gap year and it got pulled because of lack of funding.

Any other intense science research of 2-3 semesters or two summers will suffice, as an undergrad or as a gap year. NIH is much harder to get now.

Almost every other lab is also hard to get now as they’ve all lost funding. I think it’s probably the best option for a gap year IF you can get a good position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCAT + research at NIH

That’s what my daughter says too- gold standard.

Are people finding these positions open at NIH? My daughter had one lined up last year for her gap year and it got pulled because of lack of funding.

Any other intense science research of 2-3 semesters or two summers will suffice, as an undergrad or as a gap year. NIH is much harder to get now.

Almost every other lab is also hard to get now as they’ve all lost funding. I think it’s probably the best option for a gap year IF you can get a good position.

huh??? my kid's undergrad (ivy) has plenty of lab spots for anyone who wants, premed or any stem major. Almost all their premed and stem friends from other schools (Duke, GT, UVA, other ivies, WM) also had paid summer 2025 research jobs in industry, govt/National lab or university programs.

[Anonymous]

Guys, still look for lab jobs. It may not be easy right now, but if you want one you can find one.

Perseverance is the name of the game in medicine.

[Anonymous]

It's not about getting into your first choice school, it's about getting into any school you can get into. Research jobs are going to be tough to find now. Maybe meaningful volunteer work or becoming a nursing assistant would help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect most here are not physicians nor have worked in med admissions. I am both, different from the poster a few posts up. I went to a T5 med school and did admissions for them, as well as run med admissions advising with a couple of other physicians. What we see, among those that do not gt in, is that their MCAT is often below 505 yet they apply anyway. IF they have above 515 and get in no where it is rare, and is often because they do not apply to schools where 515 is the top end of the score range, their GPA was below 3.5, or they have a lackluster transcript, often skipping recommended premed courses such as molecular bio, sometimes skipping required courses.
No one with 3.9+/520+ gets rejected unless they have no schools below the T50 or have serious red flags on app ie no volunteering, missed courses, et al.
Top undergrad programs, as in top flagships or T25 private types generally advise very well . The applicants have all the prereqs and more. That is not the case from some schools. We advise those students to take 1-2 gaps and boost the lacking area such as a Postbacc if the coursework or grades are borderline.

+1. I also want to add that it only gets harder in medical school, residency, and fellowship so if med school admissions is problematic I am deeply concerned about students afterwards. The tests get a lot harder.

My daughter is in the middle of the process and the above is why she doesn’t want to hire a tutor for studying for the mcat. (She’s doing some study method, studying every day for two hours, periodically taking practice tests, etc). She told me that if she needed a tutor to get into med school she’d be screwed when the much harder tests come down the line in med school.

This is either a humble brag or not very smart as standardized testing for MCAT is not the same as boards.