Medical School Admissions - rejection, gap year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enroll in either a post-bac (Pitt) or the SMP (Georgetown).

Good Luck!

A lot of people mentioned post-bac.

Isn't it mainly for humanities major folks? So that they could take required courses (stem requirement math/chem/bio).

What's the point of post-bac if you were already on premed track and just gap for a year?

What post-bac can offer that you can't do on your own?

If you have already taken the premed classes, there is no point in a post bacc and in fact, your kid isn’t eligible. A masters in a science may be a way for your kid to improve their science grades.

This is not universally true - there are plenty of schools that offer "record enhancer" or "academic enhancer" post-bacs even if you have already completed most or all of the requirements. Some come with a masters and some with a grad certificate but not a masters. GW is one example:

"GW SMHS also has post-bacc academic enhancer programs for students who have completed the pre-medical prerequisites but want to increase their science GPA. The Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology offers two programs at the graduate level: a one-year Graduate Certificate in Anatomical and Translational Sciences (GCATS) and a two-year Master of Science in Anatomical and Translational Sciences (M-ATS)."

https://prehealth.gwu.edu/post-baccalaureate-programs

Is there any point in doing this if you already have the prereqs and a high science GPA? Do any result in preferential chances for admission to that university's med school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Well, op’s kid found out the hard way what happens when the app isn’t good enough. Current medical school admissions expectations require a year or two year gap to get a competitive application for most kids.

Then why do they interview and admit students who are still currently in undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Op, has your DS spoken to his pre-health advisor at school? They may have some advice for him. Good luck. It appears there are a few applications out there so this rotation is not over yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Well, op’s kid found out the hard way what happens when the app isn’t good enough. Current medical school admissions expectations require a year or two year gap to get a competitive application for most kids.

Then why do they interview and admit students who are still currently in undergrad?

Am ever shrinking minority of accepted students.

[Anonymous]

Just here reiterating- ugh. This process! So intense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Sorry to have offended you OP. You need better advising.
You're trying to be literal, but there is guidance for how many hours you should have in each bucket and where your MCAT score should be. Once you're in range, go ahead and go for it. But don't throw in a half assed application your senior year of college because it will in fact hurt you.
I don't need to debate with you. As I've said, my child followed all the advice which is readily available and has now three acceptances (we got another one this morning).
-doomsday and judgmental poster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Well, op’s kid found out the hard way what happens when the app isn’t good enough. Current medical school admissions expectations require a year or two year gap to get a competitive application for most kids.

Then why do they interview and admit students who are still currently in undergrad?

Because those students clearly were superstars and had better stats. It's about 20% and decreasing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

This is a little doomsday and judgmental. Obviously, if you're not a full-time student who is working and studying for the MCAT, you have more time to focus on research and "rounding off" your app. Seems like admissions committee would be aware of this and not hold initial application against the applicant.

Are you the Op?
I think you are in for a wild ride if so.

Couldn't an app always be "better," though, with more time? More MCAT retakes, more research, more clinicals...heck, why not go ahead and get a PhD and THEN, and only then, apply?

Well, op’s kid found out the hard way what happens when the app isn’t good enough. Current medical school admissions expectations require a year or two year gap to get a competitive application for most kids.

Then why do they interview and admit students who are still currently in undergrad?

Because those students clearly were superstars and had better stats. It's about 20% and decreasing.

I know kids who went directly to medical school from college. They were not necessarily superstars, but they were strategic from the beginning of college about planning out classes, MCAT prep, and extracurriculars. They have almost everything done before senior year, and take a light course load senior year to accommodate interviews and everything else. They are the same kids who could have graduated college in 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Didn't want to, wanted to be admitted this cycle. IMO, should have applied more widely if wanted to start next year and not take a gap year. Weaknesses - research, MCAT. MCAT seems like it could improve with a retake. Used free resources this time and studied on their own (no set program), somewhat pressed for time while working clinical job and taking classes.

They will see every MCAT score, which I'm assuming is not good since you aren't sharing it. The child needs to slow down and only do it when they are prepared.
My child rescheduled the MCAT 2 separate times and took and gap year. Trying to hurry this process is setting your child up for failure and making it harder for them to get an admit. This is their reality check. I know that sounds harsh, but it's absolutely true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

DC graduated this may and applied MS this cycle. Based on my observation, this is the most stressful process that she had encountered. On paper, she is a good candidate - T10 undergraduate, 3.9x GPA, 520+ with reasonable clinical and non-clinical volunteer experience and reasonable research hours with posters, presentations and peer-reviewed publications. She applied 30+ schools. So far, the outcome is not the best that we have hoped for but acceptable. She got 2 lower ranked As, 1 waitlist and a couple of Rs. Around 10 ii, but only a few are first tier (T20) schools.

Based on her experience, I have following suggestions:
1. It is better to apply widely in the first try. Reapplicants have disadvantages.
2. GPA and MCAT is threshold. You need to across the threshold, then ECs will count more.
3. Choose the schools wisely. In-state has big advantages. School vibes important - some focus primary care, rural practice and research.
4. The application is a package, in the ideal situation, all ECs should be linked together and related to why doctor is the career choice, even what kind of doctors you want to be. A storyline would help you to stand out besides your stats.
5. If have to take gap year(s), focus on improving your weakness. Serving the underserved community would be very helpful for a set of medical schools.
6. Main source of information: studentdoctor dot net; reddit dot com/r/premed; admit dot org; cycletrack dot org;

Good luck and best wishes for the medicine voyage of your DC.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of new schools opening, both MD and DO. I know those schools don't have boards and match stats yet, but there are so really promising programs out there. I work at a new DO program, and we have a great group of students in our first wo classes, even though their MCAT scores may not have been exceptional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Didn't want to, wanted to be admitted this cycle. IMO, should have applied more widely if wanted to start next year and not take a gap year. Weaknesses - research, MCAT. MCAT seems like it could improve with a retake. Used free resources this time and studied on their own (no set program), somewhat pressed for time while working clinical job and taking classes.

They will see every MCAT score, which I'm assuming is not good since you aren't sharing it. The child needs to slow down and only do it when they are prepared.
My child rescheduled the MCAT 2 separate times and took and gap year. Trying to hurry this process is setting your child up for failure and making it harder for them to get an admit. This is their reality check. I know that sounds harsh, but it's absolutely true.

OP said MCAT was average for schools where the student applied. To increase chances of acceptance, it would ideally be above the school's average, unless the student has a compelling story. Could be boosted by a high science GPA as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

DP, but curious about the bolded statement. Isn't it more difficult (both in terms of time and emotionally) to study for, pass exams for, and work as an EMT than working in a research lab?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

DC graduated this may and applied MS this cycle. Based on my observation, this is the most stressful process that she had encountered. On paper, she is a good candidate - T10 undergraduate, 3.9x GPA, 520+ with reasonable clinical and non-clinical volunteer experience and reasonable research hours with posters, presentations and peer-reviewed publications. She applied 30+ schools. So far, the outcome is not the best that we have hoped for but acceptable. She got 2 lower ranked As, 1 waitlist and a couple of Rs. Around 10 ii, but only a few are first tier (T20) schools.

Based on her experience, I have following suggestions:
1. It is better to apply widely in the first try. Reapplicants have disadvantages.
2. GPA and MCAT is threshold. You need to across the threshold, then ECs will count more.
3. Choose the schools wisely. In-state has big advantages. School vibes important - some focus primary care, rural practice and research.
4. The application is a package, in the ideal situation, all ECs should be linked together and related to why doctor is the career choice, even what kind of doctors you want to be. A storyline would help you to stand out besides your stats.
5. If have to take gap year(s), focus on improving your weakness. Serving the underserved community would be very helpful for a set of medical schools.
6. Main source of information: studentdoctor dot net; reddit dot com/r/premed; admit dot org; cycletrack dot org;

Good luck and best wishes for the medicine voyage of your DC.

520 is INSANELY good! I can't believe she didn't have people beating her door down. Seriously. Glad you have some acceptances but wish it had been more of what she deserved. It's a crazy process for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a student applying this cycle? Are they a senior, or did they do a gap year(s)? If a gap year, what are they doing in the gap? How is it going?

DC did not apply widely and was "R"'d from top choice. May be forced to do gap year and reassess. Trying to determine what most valuable experience would be in the interim. Paramedic? Research? Not sure about research opportunities if not actively a student.

Depends on her weaknesses. Clinical related is always helpful. Reapplying applicants will have harder time next year. Why didn’t she just take a gap year to begin with. Hindsight is 20/20 I know.

Why will reapplying applicants have a harder time next year?

She can reapply obviously, but she needs to show "significant" changes from this cycle application. What makes it difficult is they know she got R'ed this cycle and if her application looks the same/similar, that's an easy reject. Each school has so many well qualified applicants, it makes it that much more difficult.

eh, this will only be true for the schools she's applied to this year. she'll apply more widely next cycle.

what about a post-bacc?

This isn’t true. Reapplicants have a lower admission (at all schools, not just the one they applied to) and they want to see significant improvements on the second application. That’s why it’s risky to throw out an application before the applicant is ready and the application is looking good and to not widely apply. I have one in this application cycle and they took a gap year last year to round of their application and avoid this situation. They did research in the gap year (which is hard to find, we had connections). They have received three acceptances so far this cycle. If you can get published that’s probably best as so many kids are doing EMT and CNA type jobs.

DP, but curious about the bolded statement. Isn't it more difficult (both in terms of time and emotionally) to study for, pass exams for, and work as an EMT than working in a research lab?

I don't necessarily think that. It's just different. I think EMT/CNA is more physical work and research is more intellectual (and also really, really hard to find right now with funding cuts). Almost anyone can do the EMT/CNA if they are willing to put the time in and so it's more common but my daughter worked as a CNA and it definitely was grunt work and wiping butts and not brain taxing work.