Integrated Math roll out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haha yes I thought of MVC Einstein mom as well as just 1 problem with having lots of kids having to start Calc in 10th. I think this is a really terrible idea.

And I’d also say it’s one thing to need to supplement because your teacher couldn’t get to a unit, or cover a concept thoroughly, or there wasn’t enough HW.

But it’s another for the state/district to affirmatively choose to omit foundational skills and tell kids they’re on their own.

I'd say it isn't one thing to need to supplement. That's indicative of the thing.

MCPS should not be setting up any system of instruction where success within the system (including preparation for following-level coursework) is dependent, in any part, on outside supplementation.

And, to the MVC point, neither should MCPS be setting up any system which provides access to one student while effectively limiting access for another with similar ability, whether that is allowing gaming of the system (individually or by group) via having to reside in certain zip codes, via having a certain demographic profile, via having to be "in the know" (where such information is not broadly known/publicized) or via some other differentiator that would tend to gate-keep for reasons outside of a student's ability/academic need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

DP. This sounds like a reasonable approach, given your description. A note, though -- those already in the Algebra 1/Geometry/Algebra 2 sequence will finish out that sequence rather than shift to Integrated Algebra. Only those not havng begun that current sequence will go through Integrated Algebra 1 & 2 (after completion of whichever of PreAlgebra, AMP7+ or Math 8 they might take to complete the before-Algebra curriculum). There may be some one-off exceptions, there, but it wouldn't be a standard approach for a whole school/cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

DP. This sounds like a reasonable approach, given your description. A note, though -- those already in the Algebra 1/Geometry/Algebra 2 sequence will finish out that sequence rather than shift to Integrated Algebra. Only those not havng begun that current sequence will go through Integrated Algebra 1 & 2 (after completion of whichever of PreAlgebra, AMP7+ or Math 8 they might take to complete the before-Algebra curriculum). There may be some one-off exceptions, there, but it wouldn't be a standard approach for a whole school/cohort.

Ah ok. That's good to know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

My understanding is that students starting algebra next year will do the three year Alg 1/Geometry/Alg 2. Students starting algebra in 2027 will do the two year IA1/IA2. So if your kid is ready for algebra and you want her to take the 3 year pathway she should start Algebra 1 next year.

[Anonymous]

Haven’t read every post but chiming in to share my with experience:

My youngest is in 5th grade at one of the 8 ES in the MSMC. My kid is in their second year of compacted math and at fall conferences their math teacher said “I have no doubt they will take AP calculus and it will be in the 10th grade”. Unfortunately, that limits us to ONE HS in the DCC. Then we have to worry about the MS math pathways which are a shtshow. The ES math teacher said “every MS has a different course they consider to be advanced math. They only ask us if the kid was in compacted math and if they are ready for advanced math”.

MCPS created this inequity and they need to fix it!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So the thinking is that a lot of high schoolers don't need geometry, so it's eliminated as a requirement... but it's not going to be offered to kids who do need it as a pre-req to trig/calc/physics?

Geometry is not being "eliminated" per se, it's being integrated into the two algebra courses, supposedly.

I understand your skepticism on how they can do that and maintain a meaningful understanding and learning of geometry that is equal to what they would have gotten with it as a standalone class, but that is what they're purporting to do....

Yeah, I understand smushing 3 years into 2 for elementary math, but don't think it's a good idea later on here.

They are not accelerating -- covering 3 years in 2. They are eliminating standards. That means students miss content.

They’re watering down the graduation requirements.

What? Which parts do they skip?

Geometry content.

What is the major effects for missing to learn geometry content to an average adult? I am just curious about it. I am not from here, what is included in geometry content curriculum?

SAT and ACT tests' content? Do the tests have geometry questions? And geometry isn't going away, it's being "integrated" (whatever that actually means) into A1 and A2. Right now geometry is the course offered between Alg 1 and Alg 2 in MS or high school

Geometry is being reduced to fit the new course pathway in 2 years instead of 3.

Will Geometry actually include writing proofs? It was shocking for me that my kids never did that. It was the whole class for me.

My kid is in honors geometry and definitely writes proofs. I know becuase she complains about it constantly.

They write the same proof 20-30 times, but yes, it's "proofs".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

What's your opinion on the new math tracks? They are aimed at kids like yours.

If you go to Math 8, Integrated 1, Integrated 2, would you be interested in the new alternative math classes (stats, business focused) for 11th and 12th, or interested in continuing toward precalc ane calculus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haha yes I thought of MVC Einstein mom as well as just 1 problem with having lots of kids having to start Calc in 10th. I think this is a really terrible idea.

And I’d also say it’s one thing to need to supplement because your teacher couldn’t get to a unit, or cover a concept thoroughly, or there wasn’t enough HW.

But it’s another for the state/district to affirmatively choose to omit foundational skills and tell kids they’re on their own.

I'd say it isn't one thing to need to supplement. That's indicative of the thing.

MCPS should not be setting up any system of instruction where success within the system (including preparation for following-level coursework) is dependent, in any part, on outside supplementation.

And, to the MVC point, neither should MCPS be setting up any system which provides access to one student while effectively limiting access for another with similar ability, whether that is allowing gaming of the system (individually or by group) via having to reside in certain zip codes, via having a certain demographic profile, via having to be "in the know" (where such information is not broadly known/publicized) or via some other differentiator that would tend to gate-keep for reasons outside of a student's ability/academic need.

Agreed. I didn’t mean to imply that students needing to supplement is totally fine, more that it will happen on occasion. That should definitely not be the norm or expectation, though, and what takes it up a level here is that (unless they add a new class) it’s *planned.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So kids are just supposed to do Khan Academy if they want to be prepared for Calc?

Honestly this is probably the answer.

I have two high schoolers. I regret assuming they’d learn math properly from MCPS. They’ve had good teachers, earned As, scored well on standardized tests. But the depth of their mastery is severely lacking. There have been so many curriculum changes, topics omitted because of the pandemic and lack of continuity from curricula, and quite frankly not enough homework or paper/pencil calculations to reinforce concepts properly. Teachers need to do a lot of reteaching and get off pace because students aren’t tracked properly and don’t have great foundations. No accountability. The kids who do outside of school math are actually properly educated. The idea that they would condense three years into two and put numerous kids on a path to precalc in 9th is insanity. They’ve don’t even have enough upper level math options in many schools, nor do many kids want to take MVC (sorry Einstein mom).

They are not even doing this. They are just skipping content, so they are doing 2 years in 2 and just leaving stuff out - then expecting kids to go into precalc as early as 9th. Insanity.

I'm so glad my kids do RSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

If she's in grade 7 math, there is no option for her to go A1 next year that I know of. A1 presumes you have gotten through 8th grade standards. She would struggle in A1 next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read every post but chiming in to share my with experience:

My youngest is in 5th grade at one of the 8 ES in the MSMC. My kid is in their second year of compacted math and at fall conferences their math teacher said “I have no doubt they will take AP calculus and it will be in the 10th grade”. Unfortunately, that limits us to ONE HS in the DCC. Then we have to worry about the MS math pathways which are a shtshow. The ES math teacher said “every MS has a different course they consider to be advanced math. They only ask us if the kid was in compacted math and if they are ready for advanced math”.

MCPS created this inequity and they need to fix it!

What the teacher said is not accurate. For 6th grade, math is standard across the county:
- On level is Math 6
- Somewhat accelerated is AMP Math 6+, which covers math 6 and half of math 7.
- Most accelerated is Prealgebra, which covers math 7 and 8 standards.

Kids in compacted math either go onto 6+ or Prealgebra, depending on how they do. Kids in regular grade 5 math either go onto grade 6 or grade 6+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read every post but chiming in to share my with experience:

My youngest is in 5th grade at one of the 8 ES in the MSMC. My kid is in their second year of compacted math and at fall conferences their math teacher said “I have no doubt they will take AP calculus and it will be in the 10th grade”. Unfortunately, that limits us to ONE HS in the DCC. Then we have to worry about the MS math pathways which are a shtshow. The ES math teacher said “every MS has a different course they consider to be advanced math. They only ask us if the kid was in compacted math and if they are ready for advanced math”.

MCPS created this inequity and they need to fix it!

What the teacher said is not accurate. For 6th grade, math is standard across the county:
- On level is Math 6
- Somewhat accelerated is AMP Math 6+, which covers math 6 and half of math 7.
- Most accelerated is Prealgebra, which covers math 7 and 8 standards.

Kids in compacted math either go onto 6+ or Prealgebra, depending on how they do. Kids in regular grade 5 math either go onto grade 6 or grade 6+.

That poster has no idea what they're talking about. Besides what you mentioned, they're talking about an 8-school MSMC (it's three schools), talking about the DCC as if it's going to exist in 4 years (it almost certainly won't), and acting like there is one only HS in the DCC where you can take AP Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

What's your opinion on the new math tracks? They are aimed at kids like yours.

If you go to Math 8, Integrated 1, Integrated 2, would you be interested in the new alternative math classes (stats, business focused) for 11th and 12th, or interested in continuing toward precalc ane calculus?

I would want her to go toward precalc and calculus, because even though she’s more literacy-inclined, I want her to attain the cognitive benefits of studying calculus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this math pathway change mean for the old advice that said you should strive to have your kid taking Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

I have a 7th grader so I’m inclined to not push for algebra 1 next year, since by 9th grade she’ll be in the next integrated math class?

What class is your 7th grader in this year? AMP7+? I am not sure you would have an option not to have her take A1 next year. And personally, I would not want to be in year 1 of the integrated math rollout. It's going to be rough. I'd therefore push to have my kid take A1 next year if I were you, OP.

The class is just called "Grade 7 Math."

So my thought is to just keep her in "Grade 8 Math," rather than pushing her to Algebra 1 next year, only for her to have to take integrated algebra again her freshman year of high school. She is on grade level standards from a MAP-M perspective, but she's far stronger in reading/writing. And I have to push her a lot with math.

If she's in grade 7 math, there is no option for her to go A1 next year that I know of. A1 presumes you have gotten through 8th grade standards. She would struggle in A1 next year.

I didn’t realize that. I had a previous child take Algebra in 8th grade without doing compact math, so I’m not sure how that happened if grade 8 math was a prerequisite….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read every post but chiming in to share my with experience:

My youngest is in 5th grade at one of the 8 ES in the MSMC. My kid is in their second year of compacted math and at fall conferences their math teacher said “I have no doubt they will take AP calculus and it will be in the 10th grade”. Unfortunately, that limits us to ONE HS in the DCC. Then we have to worry about the MS math pathways which are a shtshow. The ES math teacher said “every MS has a different course they consider to be advanced math. They only ask us if the kid was in compacted math and if they are ready for advanced math”.

MCPS created this inequity and they need to fix it!

What the teacher said is not accurate. For 6th grade, math is standard across the county:
- On level is Math 6
- Somewhat accelerated is AMP Math 6+, which covers math 6 and half of math 7.
- Most accelerated is Prealgebra, which covers math 7 and 8 standards.

Kids in compacted math either go onto 6+ or Prealgebra, depending on how they do. Kids in regular grade 5 math either go onto grade 6 or grade 6+.

That poster has no idea what they're talking about. Besides what you mentioned, they're talking about an 8-school MSMC (it's three schools), talking about the DCC as if it's going to exist in 4 years (it almost certainly won't), and acting like there is one only HS in the DCC where you can take AP Calc.

I don't think they express themselves clearly enough, as I don't think they were talking about the availability of AP Calc, itself, being only at one DCC school. However, if a student is taking AP Calc BC in 10th, then

11th ...???
12th ...???

Blair and Wheaton have MVC, I think. Maybe only Blair among the DCC schools has LA/DiffEq (or an equivalent), whereas a few other MCPS schools offer such classes to fill the 2 years beyond AP Calc BC to keep the progression going for Math/Engineering/"hard" science-oriented students? That kind of problem would be exacerbated with the removal of a year upon introduction of Integrated Algebra 1 & 2 followed by a single year of PreCalc before Calc, as more students would be hitting that conundrum. It wouldn't be limited to the current DCC, though.