Selingo WSJ Essay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles focus on career “success” and not money “success”.

The insurance policy is that the graduates have rich friends and/or marry someone rich. How many parents on this board earned their 1% vs married their 1%? I am semi-successful professsionally from a meh-private college; my money comes from my husband’s family, not my career.

Both former low-income, heavily aided students who met at an ivy, went to med school at a different but top school, and earn top2%. Most of our adult friends are in medicine or law. About half came from no money and did not marry into significant (top-5%)money. We are younger than the ave college parents, just turned 50, college '97. Our friends are all similar. In fact the smartest two from '97 are a top lawyer and a research MD-phD.about 40% of my ivy was on need-based aid when I attended now it is 55%. parents on dcum who went to college in the 80s have a very different understanding of college compared to people from the late 90s. The legacy friends in my adult involved alum group are predominantly new to the top incomes, and were not legacies ourselves. My ivy absolutely changed my trajectory and it continues to do the same for a larger and larger portion of the undergraduate population.

+1 Top undergrad, law and med schools love their URMs.

[Anonymous]

What is the line between wealthy and super wealthy in your book?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not going to sell books if you just say what has already been established. Have to give the common man some hope…

It’s the same with rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles focus on career “success” and not money “success”.

The insurance policy is that the graduates have rich friends and/or marry someone rich. How many parents on this board earned their 1% vs married their 1%? I am semi-successful professsionally from a meh-private college; my money comes from my husband’s family, not my career.

Both former low-income, heavily aided students who met at an ivy, went to med school at a different but top school, and earn top2%. Most of our adult friends are in medicine or law. About half came from no money and did not marry into significant (top-5%)money. We are younger than the ave college parents, just turned 50, college '97. Our friends are all similar. In fact the smartest two from '97 are a top lawyer and a research MD-phD.about 40% of my ivy was on need-based aid when I attended now it is 55%. parents on dcum who went to college in the 80s have a very different understanding of college compared to people from the late 90s. The legacy friends in my adult involved alum group are predominantly new to the top incomes, and were not legacies ourselves. My ivy absolutely changed my trajectory and it continues to do the same for a larger and larger portion of the undergraduate population.

This is a powerful defense of Ivies as institutions but it is hardly an argument that full-pay families not already in the top 1-2% should shell out an unlimited amount of money for these schools. The top 10-20% of American households is a pretty comfortable place to be, especially if you’re not hellbent on living in the center of an expensive city and you don’t saddle your kid with massive unnecessary debt. Obviously if you have functionally unlimited money, it doesn’t matter how you spend it. Good for Ivies, for redirecting a lot of that excess wealth to poor kids. But there’s absolutely no reason families in the 85th-95th percentile should voluntarily subject themselves to that tax.

Fair point, though families in the 85-95%ile will actually qualify for the most need-based aid from the top schools: Princeton Penn MIT Yale provide aid for household incomes up to around 250k. The rest of the ivy+ is up to 200ish as a need-aid cutoff. Marginally lower ranked privates in the 24-30 range are no where close to the same financial aid yet almost as hard to get accepted to.

For the full pay families, which we are (as well as former low income/FG), some will want to pay for the name, of course, and some are so rich they do not consider 93k a year expensive.
Others will want to spend the $ even if they are not too far above the full-pay line of 250kish because our experience at similar schools made a lasting positive impression based on the experience. I wanted my kids to have what I had: uber smart peer group who became lifelong friends, small classes with engaged faculty. I wanted our kids to have a chance at the same and are quite happy and proud to be full pay as well as to donate to financial aid for the next generation who needs aid. Mine are at different ivy/elites than I attended and so far it is beyond their and our expectations, and frankly less rich-white/pretentious than our DMV private school which is a welcome change. Hopefully our third gets into a similar level of school.

We have that income level to get aid but prioritized savings over vacations, private K-12 tuition, cars, expensive clothes etc. Financial aid officers told us our savings are much higher than normal, and so no aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles focus on career “success” and not money “success”.

The insurance policy is that the graduates have rich friends and/or marry someone rich. How many parents on this board earned their 1% vs married their 1%? I am semi-successful professsionally from a meh-private college; my money comes from my husband’s family, not my career.

Sure if your only goal for your kids is that they enter the 1% and marry rich - you should sweat getting them into Princeton. I don’t think that is the only goal most parents have for their kids. Maybe I am wrong.

It isn’t marrying rich for me. It’s being around the right cohort. It matters in the long run.

Can you give me an example of how it matters, that you cannot find at another school, that is not related to making money?

I see this in action with my siblings. They all went to large flagship schools and I went to private T10. They do not have friends in the same social class that we do. I’m sorry to be so blunt. Their friends are not as successful.

My siblings have great well paying jobs (due to grad degrees) but just don’t have access to the networks that we do. Could they create that or find it themselves through things like YPO and private clubs? Yes absolutely. But it is much much harder. They complain about it nonstop. I’ve posted about this before, but it’s probably been some time.

😂 😂

[Anonymous]

I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles focus on career “success” and not money “success”.

The insurance policy is that the graduates have rich friends and/or marry someone rich. How many parents on this board earned their 1% vs married their 1%? I am semi-successful professsionally from a meh-private college; my money comes from my husband’s family, not my career.

Sure if your only goal for your kids is that they enter the 1% and marry rich - you should sweat getting them into Princeton. I don’t think that is the only goal most parents have for their kids. Maybe I am wrong.

It isn’t marrying rich for me. It’s being around the right cohort. It matters in the long run.

Can you give me an example of how it matters, that you cannot find at another school, that is not related to making money?

I see this in action with my siblings. They all went to large flagship schools and I went to private T10. They do not have friends in the same social class that we do. I’m sorry to be so blunt. Their friends are not as successful.

My siblings have great well paying jobs (due to grad degrees) but just don’t have access to the networks that we do. Could they create that or find it themselves through things like YPO and private clubs? Yes absolutely. But it is much much harder. They complain about it nonstop. I’ve posted about this before, but it’s probably been some time.

NP. Dc at Harvard. We constantly say the connections made might be the only thing that would have been unavailable elsewhere. Wonder if that network will come into play later in dc’s life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

But you live in the south.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

But you live in the south.

The same can also be said for many people in other parts of the country who attended their state flagship and regional publics. They’re doing well and have the same jobs, live in the same wealthy neighborhoods and send their kids to the same nice schools as their Ivy neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the line between wealthy and super wealthy in your book?

Approximately 0.13% of American households have a net worth above $25 million. I'd say being in the top ~.1% makes you super wealthy. Are you Bezos wealthy? No. But you're doing okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These articles focus on career “success” and not money “success”.

The insurance policy is that the graduates have rich friends and/or marry someone rich. How many parents on this board earned their 1% vs married their 1%? I am semi-successful professsionally from a meh-private college; my money comes from my husband’s family, not my career.

Sure if your only goal for your kids is that they enter the 1% and marry rich - you should sweat getting them into Princeton. I don’t think that is the only goal most parents have for their kids. Maybe I am wrong.

It isn’t marrying rich for me. It’s being around the right cohort. It matters in the long run.

If you want to make lifelong connections to the "right cohort" you should put energy in getting your kid into the "right" K-8 or K-12. The lifelong friendships are made then, and private school students at elite colleges often hang with other kids who went to similar private elementary/high schools. Elite college is cliquey but in kindergarten the kids are so young they don't care. That's been my experience having gone to private K-12 in NYC myself, putting my kids through that now, and having one at so-called "top 20" elite college now.

Don't worry. We did that too.
Two kids at Ivy/T10 now.
All good.

You two circle jerks are incredibly obnoxious. So glad to not know you IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

And I think that's the ideal. But if your southern state school friends were to try to make it in New York, San Francisco, Boston, DC, or Chicago, they'd probably have a very tough time. And that's the reality most people are living with. A place like Charleston, SC is fine and all - but that is a place that runs on connections and family. It's not accessible for a random graduate from Northwestern or Brown. Whereas in NY and SF, talent does make a difference, and most bright kids will have better opportunities in those places rather than a southern town where family and history matter more.

Outside of Atlanta or Nashville, talent can't break through in the South. So it remains a very comfortable backwater for locals with all the connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

But you live in the south.

The same can also be said for many people in other parts of the country who attended their state flagship and regional publics. They’re doing well and have the same jobs, live in the same wealthy neighborhoods and send their kids to the same nice schools as their Ivy neighbors.

Except they don't have Ivy neighbors because those people wouldn't live in that neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the South and many of the SEC grads around me are living very comfortable lives- professional careers, beautiful homes, private schools for the kids, country club memberships, the second home, etc. the refreshing thing is that many of them aren’t hung up on the Ivies and other Ivy-type schools- it makes for a much more pleasant, normal high school experience for the kids down here. The Ivies and WASP’s and Ivy+ aren’t the only ticket to the “good life”.

And I think that's the ideal. But if your southern state school friends were to try to make it in New York, San Francisco, Boston, DC, or Chicago, they'd probably have a very tough time. And that's the reality most people are living with. A place like Charleston, SC is fine and all - but that is a place that runs on connections and family. It's not accessible for a random graduate from Northwestern or Brown. Whereas in NY and SF, talent does make a difference, and most bright kids will have better opportunities in those places rather than a southern town where family and history matter more.

Outside of Atlanta or Nashville, talent can't break through in the South. So it remains a very comfortable backwater for locals with all the connections.

I live in a Southern backwater. The mentality down here is changing as the demographics change and a more diverse crowd moves down here. Family connections still count, but it’s becoming easier for outsiders from Northern colleges to break in. People down here love their state flagships and “known” southern privates but they also recognize and respect Ivy and SLAC degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essay kind of talks out two sides. Says the elite schools don’t matter in the end, but then also says graduates of elite schools are 60% more likely to end up at elite jobs (think he used Goldman as an example) and secure higher salaries out of undergrad.

Also, it shows a chart that says out of a Microsoft pool of entry level employees, 3500 out of around 12,000 come from colleges with 20% or less acceptance rates. It’s the largest group though that leaves 8500 employees coming from less selective schools.

Again, the issue with this is that there are only like 25 colleges (most of which are relatively small) that fit this criteria while there are thousands that fit the other criteria of higher acceptance rates.

My takeaway was that at Microsoft it definitely pays to come from a sub-20% acceptance college.

I also don’t get looking at Fortune 50 companies as a good measure. Outside of tech, you just won’t see many top school grads wanting to work at Exxon or CVS or a good 30 of the F50 companies.

that was my take as well. He provides the argument for both sides then says it does in fact matter for certain companies/careers

But so what? Most people don't want those positions and will do just as well elsewhere.