Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

You are sickening. The children you are starving can't get out of Gaza you moron.

Being against genocide and starving children is antisemitic. Congratulations, you've outed yourself as a Jew hater.

Oh no, is this someone pretending to be a mean Jewish person! Can't be that is just not possible!

I see now. You’re just a mediocre troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

You are sickening. The children you are starving can't get out of Gaza you moron.

Being against genocide and starving children is antisemitic. Congratulations, you've outed yourself as a Jew hater.

Oh no, is this someone pretending to be a mean Jewish person! Can't be that is just not possible!

I see now. You’re just a mediocre troll.

Like you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

so you havent watched the video

So annoying since you clearly have no idea what they said.

I did actually watch the video. And if I felt that either of them were coming to the discussion with care for the importance of the promise of Israel within Judaism and the importance of Zionism to Judaism, I would take it more seriously as two Jews talking about the subject. I think it was a good interview of two people talking about the conflict. But the framing of it as two Jews, when neither of them represents mainstream Jewish thought, is disingenuous and liable to be misinterpreted by non-Jews who don't understand that these two are outliers within the Jewish community.

Perhaps you should expand your horizons and listen to Jews who don’t always agree with your idea that “Israel can do no wrong.” We can talk about Judaism and the existence of the state of Israel when the Israeli government stops starving children and committing gencide.

Where did I say that "Israel can do no wrong"? I expressly did NOT say that (I said "There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government." up above). I do listen to Jews who don't agree with me, as evidenced by the fact that I watched this interview, and I also have family members and friends who are to the left of me and to the right of me on the issue.

Talking about Judaism and the ideals of Zionism that the State of Israel isn't living up to is exactly relevant now. Beinart was right that there needs to be a conversation about how we live our Jewish values when we have power on the world stage. And that conversation would be taken more seriously if led by people who aren't editors of a far-left antizionist magazine.

As I said before, talking about "how we live our Jewish values when we have power on the world stage" needs to happen AFTER the genocide and the starvation stop. Especially when it comes to Jews pontificating from their comfortable American homes.

I don't understand your reasoning. I mean, I sort of do, but also I don't. And FWIW, the last couple pages of crazy haven't come from me. I had other stuff to do yesterday afternoon.

To me, the conversation of "Jewish values when we have power" and "Jewish values in wartime" are more relevant during this crisis and more likely to change minds. Asking people to really think about what it means to wage war, to fight for peace, and at what costs, instead of "pontificating" from afar.

[Anonymous]

The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Israel is the ONLY[u] one committing genocide and mass starvation. Funded by our US dollars. There is no excuse, there is no whataboutism. You're a horrible human.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

No. Israel does not see non Israeli Jews as people and Israel has refused countless ceasefire/peace deals. Israel does not even care about its own people. They could have had all the hostages backs over a year ago but said no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

At this point, Israel has more power to end the deliberate starvation in Gaza than Hamas does to end the war.

I hope you’re prepared to think deeply about the tactics you’re so ardently defending as Elul approaches. The fact that the war started in response to Hamas’s atrocities does not make Israel’s own atrocities any more moral.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Why?

Murdering children tends to harm the soul. And that’s what they’re doing. All on their own.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

No, the point is, the suffering in Gaza would end now if the movement wasn't using the suffering as evidence in their trial to prove that Israel needs to be destroyed. They don't want the war to stop today--if the people of Gaza were living in peace but Israel still existed as is, they would not be satisfied.

That is a very convenient take. Kind of absolves Bibi and you for killing 50,000 people and children. It is also total crap. Israel wants Gaza destroyed. Israel wants West Bank destroyed and only Jews livng there. It's called ethnic cleansing. Apparently, you're totally ok with that. I'm not. Decent people are not ok with it.

Well, while Gaza waits for Bibi to do whatever they think he should do, it can take immediate action to make its situation better. Why not. Of someone is slapping me and I have the ability to get myself out of the room of the slapper, I would, it would be stupid to stay there and remained slapped. Most times we can't change other people but we can change our own actions.

This is a ludicrous assertion. Most of Gaza’s population is now homeless and living in tents in a small enclave in the south. What are they supposed to do to change things? The leaders of Hamas care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Israel do: not at all. But Israel has the ability to end the deliberate starvation now, and it should do it regardless of what Hamas does or doesn’t do.

This isn’t just a political argument, there’s also a religious imperative: As my rabbi taught this past Shabbat, the Torah specifically says that if your enemy is hungry or thirsty, you give him food and water. (Let alone the many other religious imperatives Bibi has ignored, beginning with the idea that there is no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, a goal he long ago abandoned even pretending to care about.)

This is a ludicrous assertion: The leaders of Israel care exactly as much for civilians in Gaza as the leaders of Hamas do. But Hamas has the ability to end the war now, and it should do it regardless of what Israel does or doesn’t do

Bibi already said he doesn’t care about the hostages anymore. He wants to level gaza, hostages be damned.

He never did. That's why the old trope of "bring home the hostages and the war ends" is so dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The world needs to figure out a reasonable solution for both sides otherwise there will never be lasting peace and security for either side. Israel has the upper hand due to support from the US but it is in danger of losing its soul.

I would say this is 1000% on Israel.

Israel's soul has always been built on ethnic cleansing and supremacy over the native population. You are deluding yourself to believe otherwise.