New VDOE Rankings of High and Secondary Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

College credits that are almost universally accepted, unlike IB. And courses that can be taken in just a year to receive credit instead of two. Many universities still don’t know what to do with IB scores, and until that changes, AP will remain king.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

If anyone can do it, why are the diploma numbers so low? IB is not meant to be an ala cart program where you take some IB classes and you don’t earn the diploma. It is supposed to lead to kid complete the IB diploma but the percentage of kids at the IB schools completing the program is low. AP is an ala cart program that allows kids to take more advanced classes in areas of interest and areas that they are strong in. That is the purpose of the program.

The kids at the IB programs are forced into a program that does not meet their needs. My kid is supposed to go to SLHS and we are starting to look at the AP options because he is not a kid that is interested in the diploma program. There are far more AP STEM offerings and the math AP math track makes more sense for a kid who takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It sucks that we need to look at moving schools because we are forced into a program that doesn’t work for the vast majority of the kids at any of the IB schools. I don’t think that there is an IB school where over 30% of the kids earn the IB diploma.

IB should be a magnate program that kids who want to earn the diploma can attend. Provide bus service to the school that hosts the magnate school. AP should be at every high school because it fits the needs of most of the kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Langley parents are now arguing on the FairFACTS page that they can’t be moved to Herndon because Herndon is in the “off track” category.

In fact, the opposite will happen because redistricting some Langley kids there will push Herndon into the “on track” category (above 80).

When that happens they can think Youngkin for further incentivizing the School Board to game the numbers with these new ratings.

Those Langley parents are elitists and no better than the MAGA they complain about when it comes to schools. Their kids are no different than the UMC and MC kids at Herndon except the Langley kids aren’t allowed out of their bubbles.

DP. Good grief, you sound charming. Why should kids be moved from an excellent to an underperforming school?

What difference does it make what other kids who attend the school's average test scores are? Because that's the only thing deciding those labels. As long as a school has a large enough cohort of peers (as both Langley and Herndon do) to offer 99% the same Honors/AP classes, the outcomes for a given student are going to be remarkably similar no matter which school they attend or what the kids are doing in the other classrooms. Like, if I'm taking AP US History, it doesn't matter if I'm in the only AP US History class at my school or if there are 3 other AP US History classes being taught concurrently at my school... nor how many of the other classrooms at my school are filled with kids struggling to meet grade level. Can 99.9% of kids reach their full academic potential at Herndon just as well as at Langley? Sure, and the "underperforming" label doesn't speak to that question... because it's not about the overall quality of school / instruction.

Where do your kids go to school?

Timber Lane (in McLean pyramid). We'll likely get rezoned to Marshall or Falls Church instead for HS, which are "lower rated" than McLean but I am confident my kids will get basically the same education there as they would have at McLean. The advantage is their MS/HS classmates and friends will also generally live closer and be more accessible for socializing, school projects, etc.

DP. You’re likely to get moved to fchs less likely to go to Marshall. Surprising that you’re okay with giving up McLean for that, but to each their own, I guess. I wish you well.

DP. If you buy in that area, you're OK with your kids going to an elementary school that is a split feeder and looks more like Falls Church HS than McLean HS, so it's not viewed the way that, say, Forestville families who've always been in the Langley pyramid look at getting moved to Herndon.

Plus, Falls Church will have the same AP courses as McLean and a nicer building.

If given a choice, nobody would choose FCHS over McLean HS. FWIW, even Justice has a nicer building than McLean...

Depends where you live. I'd rather my kids go to a school where they live near their friends and feel a part of the broader community rather than being more like a visitor during the school day. The academics are going to be similar anyway, in fact probably more opportunities to stand out at FCHS. There's still some competition within the "advanced" cohort I'm sure, but healthier I'd suspect since you don't have such a large % of students all gunning for the same top tier colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

If anyone can do it, why are the diploma numbers so low? IB is not meant to be an ala cart program where you take some IB classes and you don’t earn the diploma. It is supposed to lead to kid complete the IB diploma but the percentage of kids at the IB schools completing the program is low. AP is an ala cart program that allows kids to take more advanced classes in areas of interest and areas that they are strong in. That is the purpose of the program.

The kids at the IB programs are forced into a program that does not meet their needs. My kid is supposed to go to SLHS and we are starting to look at the AP options because he is not a kid that is interested in the diploma program. There are far more AP STEM offerings and the math AP math track makes more sense for a kid who takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It sucks that we need to look at moving schools because we are forced into a program that doesn’t work for the vast majority of the kids at any of the IB schools. I don’t think that there is an IB school where over 30% of the kids earn the IB diploma.

IB should be a magnate program that kids who want to earn the diploma can attend. Provide bus service to the school that hosts the magnate school. AP should be at every high school because it fits the needs of most of the kids.

PP. Great points. I'm not debating the pros/cons of IB vs AP though. What I'm saying is that the College Board makes a ton of money off of AP whereas IB is free. They also make a ton of money off the exams. If a lot of colleges stay test optional, AP classes will be touted even more to us, not because they are amazing, but because they gotta make up the difference somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

If anyone can do it, why are the diploma numbers so low? IB is not meant to be an ala cart program where you take some IB classes and you don’t earn the diploma. It is supposed to lead to kid complete the IB diploma but the percentage of kids at the IB schools completing the program is low. AP is an ala cart program that allows kids to take more advanced classes in areas of interest and areas that they are strong in. That is the purpose of the program.

The kids at the IB programs are forced into a program that does not meet their needs. My kid is supposed to go to SLHS and we are starting to look at the AP options because he is not a kid that is interested in the diploma program. There are far more AP STEM offerings and the math AP math track makes more sense for a kid who takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It sucks that we need to look at moving schools because we are forced into a program that doesn’t work for the vast majority of the kids at any of the IB schools. I don’t think that there is an IB school where over 30% of the kids earn the IB diploma.

IB should be a magnate program that kids who want to earn the diploma can attend. Provide bus service to the school that hosts the magnate school. AP should be at every high school because it fits the needs of most of the kids.

PP. Great points. I'm not debating the pros/cons of IB vs AP though. What I'm saying is that the College Board makes a ton of money off of AP whereas IB is free. They also make a ton of money off the exams. If a lot of colleges stay test optional, AP classes will be touted even more to us, not because they are amazing, but because they gotta make up the difference somewhere.

IB is not free, FCPS pays a ton for IB. The County os required to pay for the program at a number of schools in order to have it in the County. And the program is not flexible. It needs to be a magnate program for people who actually want to complete the diploma and allow others to take AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

If anyone can do it, why are the diploma numbers so low? IB is not meant to be an ala cart program where you take some IB classes and you don’t earn the diploma. It is supposed to lead to kid complete the IB diploma but the percentage of kids at the IB schools completing the program is low. AP is an ala cart program that allows kids to take more advanced classes in areas of interest and areas that they are strong in. That is the purpose of the program.

The kids at the IB programs are forced into a program that does not meet their needs. My kid is supposed to go to SLHS and we are starting to look at the AP options because he is not a kid that is interested in the diploma program. There are far more AP STEM offerings and the math AP math track makes more sense for a kid who takes Algebra 1 in 7th grade. It sucks that we need to look at moving schools because we are forced into a program that doesn’t work for the vast majority of the kids at any of the IB schools. I don’t think that there is an IB school where over 30% of the kids earn the IB diploma.

IB should be a magnate program that kids who want to earn the diploma can attend. Provide bus service to the school that hosts the magnate school. AP should be at every high school because it fits the needs of most of the kids.

PP. Great points. I'm not debating the pros/cons of IB vs AP though. What I'm saying is that the College Board makes a ton of money off of AP whereas IB is free. They also make a ton of money off the exams. If a lot of colleges stay test optional, AP classes will be touted even more to us, not because they are amazing, but because they gotta make up the difference somewhere.

IB is not free, FCPS pays a ton for IB. The County is required to pay for the program at a number of schools in order to have it in the County. And the program is not flexible. It needs to be a magnate program for people who actually want to complete the diploma and allow others to take AP classes.

Two pointers:

carte (not cart)

magnet, not magnate

[Anonymous]

OP, I followed the link but am not finding the data showing those scores (nor the more granular components that would have been used in creating those aggregated scores)... any chance you or someone could like to the actual data source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to go out on a crazy limb here with a kid who goes to SLHS. I like IB because anyone can do it. I basically think AP has turned into a College Board money making scheme like the SAT. I thought this before I had a kid in HS. I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that we wouldn't be dealing with it.

This area is a big cash cow for the College Board. Do any of you ever think we are being played by these rankings? The most desirable schools have the most kids taking AP classes, so more money for the CB. But then it's harder to get into the top colleges because of the peer group is doing the same thing. So how is it really helping you in the end? If you are rich enough to live in these areas, then you can afford the college courses that an AP course may replace, so that's not a factor at these schools.

Other than bragging rights what do they get you in the end? Same with SAT scores. And I'm also not an advocate of IB either, kind of ambivalent. I'd rather bring back old school tracking and have the Honors courses be like the AP courses and take the CB out of it.

College credits that are almost universally accepted, unlike IB. And courses that can be taken in just a year to receive credit instead of two. Many universities still don’t know what to do with IB scores, and until that changes, AP will remain king.

Most colleges have tables that show you how IB credits transfer. It's usually listed right under the AP courses. Maybe scrolling down further on the website would help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I followed the link but am not finding the data showing those scores (nor the more granular components that would have been used in creating those aggregated scores)... any chance you or someone could like to the actual data source?

Yeah the site is a bit unintuitive and cluttered, but the scores can be reached via the big yellow rectangle about halfway down this page:

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/state-board-data-funding/accreditation-accountability/school-performance-and-support-framework/school-data-toolkit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not surprised that Justice is dead last on the list. It's just not a good school. Many factors contribute to the low score: poverty, bad teachers and staff, and a history of horrible leadership. Hopefully, things for the school will change for the better soon.

There is a ton of student-on-student violence at Justice.

FCPS does an extremely poor job of dealing effectively with student violence.

However, FCPS refuses to suspend students, and will not provide a safe learning environment, because they believe they are “furthering racial equity” with their near total ban on suspensions.

If Trump succeeds in deporting illegal immigrants, the neighborhoods that feed Justice just might turn around. Absent that, and assuming FCPS continues to make excuses for gang bangers under the guise of "social justice and equity," smart kids in the surrounding area should be granted a waiver into a more stable school. With any luck the parents who take education seriously will sue the school board for neglect to provide an adequate learning environment. I'm tired of our tax dollars propping up programs that don't work.