the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess Calkins came full circle

*snort*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

This makes me sad but doesn’t surprise me. One of my DSs is heading in this direction (currently in middle school, so maybe there’s time/opportunity to turn the situation around) and I can see how the school system plays into it.

Any advice for those of us in the trenches? DS has zero interest in school. He’s in honors classes/advanced math but just wants to do the minimum to skate by (and usually their brains to do just that - the minimum.)

But he shows genuine curiosity and interest in the things that interest him. Has a great attitude and strong work ethic when it comes to his sport (ability to focus for long periods, is interested in technique/details, and is self-motivated with skills practice). So I hope that may translate one day to academics?

And he has some personal interests he explores on YouTube (cooking, some engineering/science stuff), but it’s all passive watching - zero interest in actually trying/applying what he watches. (And to state the obvious, he won’t ever read books unless they’re assigned for school, and even then I’m guessing it’s the bare minimum. But he does follow his sport closely, including reading news articles.)

Sorry to turn this into a free advice/therapy session. But I think it’s important for us to hear from those who see the actual behavior “in the field.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a lie that 20 years ago students were reading the whole book.

This is NOT new.

Professors are the newest victim class.

Cliff Notes were invented in 1958. So, seems like kids haven't been reading the whole book for over 60 years.

^^^ this and even those who "read the book" skim 60% of it.

The rigorous schools have always been able to control for this level of reading. I went to a rigorous HS and nobody who used Cliff Notes passed the honors classes. This is also true today but in fewer high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

I believe you, but whose fault is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

This makes me sad but doesn’t surprise me. One of my DSs is heading in this direction (currently in middle school, so maybe there’s time/opportunity to turn the situation around) and I can see how the school system plays into it.

Any advice for those of us in the trenches? DS has zero interest in school. He’s in honors classes/advanced math but just wants to do the minimum to skate by (and usually their brains to do just that - the minimum.)

But he shows genuine curiosity and interest in the things that interest him. Has a great attitude and strong work ethic when it comes to his sport (ability to focus for long periods, is interested in technique/details, and is self-motivated with skills practice). So I hope that may translate one day to academics?

And he has some personal interests he explores on YouTube (cooking, some engineering/science stuff), but it’s all passive watching - zero interest in actually trying/applying what he watches. (And to state the obvious, he won’t ever read books unless they’re assigned for school, and even then I’m guessing it’s the bare minimum. But he does follow his sport closely, including reading news articles.)

Sorry to turn this into a free advice/therapy session. But I think it’s important for us to hear from those who see the actual behavior “in the field.”

History is filled with the greatest thinkers chafing at the limitations of formal schooling.

Einstein was asked to leave high school because he indulged in topics that interested him and hated rote memorization and other subjects in which he had no interest.

Some of our greatest writers were very poor students and hated school and didn't bother with college. Maya Angelou, Mark Twain, Truman Capote, William Faulkner, Jack Kerouac..there are actually many others.

[Anonymous]

It’s more important to be the best tuba player in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

I believe you, but whose fault is it?

Why focus backwards on “fault” rather than forward on solutions? (Serious question.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

Just curious...do you teach class that is purely optional for a student, or one that a student "has to take".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

This makes me sad but doesn’t surprise me. One of my DSs is heading in this direction (currently in middle school, so maybe there’s time/opportunity to turn the situation around) and I can see how the school system plays into it.

Any advice for those of us in the trenches? DS has zero interest in school. He’s in honors classes/advanced math but just wants to do the minimum to skate by (and usually their brains to do just that - the minimum.)

But he shows genuine curiosity and interest in the things that interest him. Has a great attitude and strong work ethic when it comes to his sport (ability to focus for long periods, is interested in technique/details, and is self-motivated with skills practice). So I hope that may translate one day to academics?

And he has some personal interests he explores on YouTube (cooking, some engineering/science stuff), but it’s all passive watching - zero interest in actually trying/applying what he watches. (And to state the obvious, he won’t ever read books unless they’re assigned for school, and even then I’m guessing it’s the bare minimum. But he does follow his sport closely, including reading news articles.)

Sorry to turn this into a free advice/therapy session. But I think it’s important for us to hear from those who see the actual behavior “in the field.”

History is filled with the greatest thinkers chafing at the limitations of formal schooling.

Einstein was asked to leave high school because he indulged in topics that interested him and hated rote memorization and other subjects in which he had no interest.

Some of our greatest writers were very poor students and hated school and didn't bother with college. Maya Angelou, Mark Twain, Truman Capote, William Faulkner, Jack Kerouac..there are actually many others.

Interestingly enough Jack Kerouac attended none other than Columbia for a short time. Went there in 1940 to play football.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

Whose fault is that? My child is a senior. DC has has, maybe, 6 required books over middle and HS. They don't teach note taking, typing, computer skills as part of the basic education. They are given study guides. They are given extra credit, retakes, etc. They don't use textbooks. This is what they are used to and what they expect.

This is not all on the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet so many studnets who actually are reading these dense books in high school, and understanding them, and writing papers about them, and translating "Commentarii de Bello Gallico" from Latin into English, are not getting into these colleges because they don't have a 4.6 GPA.

I think college ADs are asleep on the job.

There isn't a way to say this without sounding offensive - but that sounds like a purely academic exercise that hones a narrow skill without much application in further study or life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dcs go to a good public high school in the south. Ds has not had to read a book since middle school. Dd has had one book to read for AP English Lit so far, that's it.

You need to rethink labeling this school “good.”

My kid goes to a suburban public school in California. He has read 5-8 novels a year in English class every year.

I’m in a suburban district in California that’s supposedly good and my middle schooler was assigned two whole books to read in three years of public middle school. And those two books were at an elementary level.

Aren’t the kids supposed to read 20 minutes in class each day? My son has to have a book with him in class everyday, either from home, class library or school library.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

Wow, I feel sorry for you. Your inability to understand some of the greatest fiction ever written indicates lacks in other aspects of your understanding of life.

I think PP was being sarcastic. I thought it was funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

I believe you, but whose fault is it?

The middle schools and high schools are doing a disservice with no homework, re-takes, no textbooks, inflated grades, not teaching note-taking, etc.