the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dcs go to a good public high school in the south. Ds has not had to read a book since middle school. Dd has had one book to read for AP English Lit so far, that's it.

You need to rethink labeling this school “good.”

My kid goes to a suburban public school in California. He has read 5-8 novels a year in English class every year.

I’m in a suburban district in California that’s supposedly good and my middle schooler was assigned two whole books to read in three years of public middle school. And those two books were at an elementary level.

Aren’t the kids supposed to read 20 minutes in class each day? My son has to have a book with him in class everyday, either from home, class library or school library.

Definitely not. I mean maybe that’s a supposed requirement, but it was certainly not enforced or expected. My kid — who got As — barely read anything.

[Anonymous]

This is what happens when colleges allow test optional admissions. You admit people with GPAs that look great on paper, but they are completely incapable of doing college level courses. There are too many high schools that graduate people for having a pulse. Colleges cannot effectively filter out the 4.0 GPAs with room temp IQs unless they use standardized testing to benchmarks applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

Whose fault is that? My child is a senior. DC has has, maybe, 6 required books over middle and HS. They don't teach note taking, typing, computer skills as part of the basic education. They are given study guides. They are given extra credit, retakes, etc. They don't use textbooks. This is what they are used to and what they expect.

This is not all on the kids.

Nope. It's on schools and parents.

[Anonymous]

Another thread in which everyone projects onto the ostensible topic that which they already believe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

Why don't you guys take it up with admissions?

[Anonymous]

Do schools not assign summer reading? My kids school gives a long list of books (prose and poetry) from which kids can choose. They have to read a certain number of books and are expected to write briefly about the reading they did over the summer. Both my kids have had some version of this every year at different schools since 4th grade. Seems like the kind of thing a parent could implement if schools aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

Whose fault is that? My child is a senior. DC has has, maybe, 6 required books over middle and HS. They don't teach note taking, typing, computer skills as part of the basic education. They are given study guides. They are given extra credit, retakes, etc. They don't use textbooks. This is what they are used to and what they expect.

This is not all on the kids.

Nope. It's on schools and parents.

Actually, I think we can blame the passage of No Child Left Behind and teaching to the test that resulted from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools aren’t doing it because most of the kids can’t and won’t read long form books. Their brains have been shaped by screens and video. Sitting down with a wall of text for 1-3 hrs or even 6 is unimaginable.

This.
Very sad state of education .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

I believe you, but whose fault is it?

Why focus backwards on “fault” rather than forward on solutions? (Serious question.)

Because you have to understand the source of the problem to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

Totally agree. There were 20 other book in his bag. I was following the discussion of these titles though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet so many studnets who actually are reading these dense books in high school, and understanding them, and writing papers about them, and translating "Commentarii de Bello Gallico" from Latin into English, are not getting into these colleges because they don't have a 4.6 GPA.

I think college ADs are asleep on the job.

There isn't a way to say this without sounding offensive - but that sounds like a purely academic exercise that hones a narrow skill without much application in further study or life.

Which one? Lots of tools in the bag. These kids also study robotics, and CS, and play video games, and build things in engineering class, etc.

[Anonymous]

They are required to read books, but lately the schools have been making them read nonfiction mostly related to dei subjects. My kid finds them so boring that they can't read it. They otherwise read fiction books at home.