Why are youth and high school sports so competitive to get into now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been discussing this with several friends. Long gone are the days from when we parents played HS sports and you could be dual or even tri varsity depending on the season. Now kids are forced to specialize far too soon and it’s terrible for burnout and injury purposes. HS crew teams practice year round at 5am before school. Basketball and volleyball practices can run until almost 10pm. And then there are kids who also want to play music or he in the school play. It’s not good and limits well rounded members of society.

Basketball and volleyball are sports for not wealthy kids.

crew teams practice year around at 5am before school? Do they also practice outdoor in December, January, and Feb?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not that difficult to be a multi-sports athlete because I did that in 2000 at Langley HS. I was the best player on the varsity golf team in the fall, and the best player on the tennis team in the spring. My DS is also the 2nd best and third-best player in the golf and tennis teams at the same school, respectively. It is not that hard.

lol ok golf is not a sport and second or third best at Langley means he can’t play in college at any respectable school

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

No, not really. This was the 1950s. His school was huge. My aunt went to a Catholic HS that was 4000 kids - for free - not scholarship, it was free (think about that for a second). The argument that Hs schools are so bigger today than they were in the past is pure whining. Sure some are, but some aren't. It is what it is. If you can't compete then don't.

DP. This is just a mean-spirited response. I graduated in a class of 300. To make the varsity basketball team I essentially competed against 300 juniors and seniors for 13 spots. I was in the top 4% of that cohort. At today’s extreme, had I gone to a school that graduates over 1000, I would need to be in the top 1.3% of junior and seniors to make the team. You’re moving from people within normal distribution patterns making the team to only statistical outliers will be on the team. Yeah, people are going to take a look at that and want to understand what is happening. Not sure why you think that is whining or why you are so callous about it.

The data also doesn’t support you. In 1976, the largest HS enrollment classification in Texas started an enrollment of 1200. In 1990, the largest HS classification in Texas started at an enrollment of 1900. Today, it starts 2275 and 1900 would put you in the third highest enrollment division in Texas HS sports. I couldn’t easily find data for VHSL, and VA hasn’t had the population/building boom of Texas, but similar trends are probably in play there.

I'm sorry facts seemed mean-spirited.

To your point. in 1980, the population of Texas was 14.2 million in 2023 it was 30.5 million. Interesting, that the classification didn't more than double. Should Texas (or any state) build schools to maintain the same level of classification? How much in taxes do you want to dedicate toward school building. That would certainly create more sprawl.

This is just off. Ignoring some specific structural issues applicable to Texas, communities in Texas have intentionally chosen to build larger high schools not because of economices of scale but precisely to create powerhouse teams (especially in football).

You’re getting into questions of the purpose iof education and athletics, but you tell me: is society better off when 1/3 as many kids participate in high school sports? That’s the net result.

[Anonymous]

My kid started h.s. with no experience in sports. She began running track, then picked up field hockey and lacrosse. The key to all three seems to be the ability to run. I don't think her stick skills are the best (field hockey) but she can run so she made varsity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not that difficult to be a multi-sports athlete because I did that in 2000 at Langley HS. I was the best player on the varsity golf team in the fall, and the best player on the tennis team in the spring. My DS is also the 2nd best and third-best player in the golf and tennis teams at the same school, respectively. It is not that hard.

Should we tell him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The data also doesn’t support you. In 1976, the largest HS enrollment classification in Texas started an enrollment of 1200. In 1990, the largest HS classification in Texas started at an enrollment of 1900. Today, it starts 2275 and 1900 would put you in the third highest enrollment division in Texas HS sports. I couldn’t easily find data for VHSL, and VA hasn’t had the population/building boom of Texas, but similar trends are probably in play there.

I don't know about 1976, but I have the Fall 1968 enrollments for Fairfax County high schools. The largest was Woodson with 2,643 students and the smallest was Herndon with 1,397. Herndon was still kind of rural at that point. In Arlington Wakefield had 2,407 in just grades 10-12 and W-L was also over 2,000 for three grades. There were obviously fewer large schools in the state back then, since we hadn't sprawled as much, but the schools in the urban and closer-in suburban areas were plenty large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been discussing this with several friends. Long gone are the days from when we parents played HS sports and you could be dual or even tri varsity depending on the season. Now kids are forced to specialize far too soon and it’s terrible for burnout and injury purposes. HS crew teams practice year round at 5am before school. Basketball and volleyball practices can run until almost 10pm. And then there are kids who also want to play music or he in the school play. It’s not good and limits well rounded members of society.

Basketball and volleyball are sports for not wealthy kids.

crew teams practice year around at 5am before school? Do they also practice outdoor in December, January, and Feb?

Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been discussing this with several friends. Long gone are the days from when we parents played HS sports and you could be dual or even tri varsity depending on the season. Now kids are forced to specialize far too soon and it’s terrible for burnout and injury purposes. HS crew teams practice year round at 5am before school. Basketball and volleyball practices can run until almost 10pm. And then there are kids who also want to play music or he in the school play. It’s not good and limits well rounded members of society.

Basketball and volleyball are sports for not wealthy kids.

crew teams practice year around at 5am before school? Do they also practice outdoor in December, January, and Feb?

Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give them opportunities to try various sports at rec level. You can sport hop, keep what they like, and drop what they don't like. They can play 2-3 rec sports for a few of years until they decide what they like best. That's when you try to get them in a club. They should not have a problem getting into JV if they play club one or two years before high school (but it may depend on the sport).

We did this with our kids and it didn't work out. The kids who stuck with one sport for years had the advantage in skill and ability. If I had to do it again, i would just pick a single sport that my child liked and I could tolerate the schedule and stick with it.

Ok then they burn out

But they didn't. They continued to play in high school and quite a few went on to play in college.

This is what people believe - a single sport isn't good. Do lots of them! But as others pointed out rec sports just aren't that great and varies so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give them opportunities to try various sports at rec level. You can sport hop, keep what they like, and drop what they don't like. They can play 2-3 rec sports for a few of years until they decide what they like best. That's when you try to get them in a club. They should not have a problem getting into JV if they play club one or two years before high school (but it may depend on the sport).

We did this with our kids and it didn't work out. The kids who stuck with one sport for years had the advantage in skill and ability. If I had to do it again, i would just pick a single sport that my child liked and I could tolerate the schedule and stick with it.

+1

Same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is talented enough the coaches won’t make them choose. They will accommodate them because they don’t want to risk losing them entirely.

not true. My kid has several school records in a sport (and nationally ranked) and that coach does not want anything to compete with his sport.

[Anonymous]

If you are truly elite/D1 material doesn’t your club team matter more than your HS team? That’s how it was when I was school. I get the sense a lot of these HS coaches have an inflated sense of self importance. How many kids are competing beyond HS? Doing sports is great, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to give up all other activities if you aren’t getting a college scholarship out of it. It seems like a balance between sports and an academic extracurricular, or the arts/music, or service, or church involvement, would be better for most kids’ college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is talented enough the coaches won’t make them choose. They will accommodate them because they don’t want to risk losing them entirely.

not true. My kid has several school records in a sport (and nationally ranked) and that coach does not want anything to compete with his sport.

I’m sure the coach doesn’t want that, but has your kid actually called the coach on the ultimatum?

Would the school be happy when their ratings/competitiveness declines because the coach kicked larlo off the team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volleyball is very much a sport for kids from families with money. To play high level volleyball (and make the varsity team at a HS with a decent team) players have to play club volleyball, which is a significant investment of time and money. DC high schools are a good example of how this plays out. On the public side, Jackson-Reed is the largest DC HS by far and being in upper NW tends to have kids from families with more resources than other parts of the city. Nearly every player on their varsity team plays volleyball outside of school. The girls volleyball team has won the DCIAA (regular DCPS public school conference) all except one year as far back as anyone can remember. The only other DCPS HS with even a half decent team is School Without Walls which while smaller, tends to also have kids from families with more resources and therefore more club volleyball players. Most of the other other DCPS high schools have no club volleyball players and are not very good. JR wins most DCIAA matches by a huge margin. The charter schools aren't much better. St Johns had historically been the best private school volleyball in DC but GDS has take over that spot for the last few years. Both St Johns and GDS recruit players for volleyball (within whatever rules exist) and virtually every player on those teams plays club volleyball.

+1. We are not poor, but not wealthy either. We noticed our bank account taking a hit as soon as our daughter started club volleyball. It is clear though that she would likely not keep a position on a our competitive HS volleyball team with rec skills only.

The money you spend on volleyball is pittance when you compare it to golf or tennis. One of my kids is playing golf at a D1 school this year, and we spent around 45K/yr on golf travel, lessons, tournaments, etc... This is on top of the country club that we're a member. We paid 92K initiation one-time fee and another 15K/year annual fee.

Well, golf has the reputation of being a sport for rich people. 100k for membership in a country club? No, thank you - that's just ridiculous.