How much do you need for an UMC retirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, the cost of care is exorbitant. My mother in law is paying $15k a month for my father in law’s nursing home (technically a rehab, but he cannot do physical therapy anymore and is just in bed for the past year.) they are Umc but not very rich.

OP here. Thanks for mentioning the cost of nursing home care. $15k a month for 2 people would mean $360k a year. It seems like it would take $10m in investments to pay for that. DH also wants both of us, and our parents, to avoid nursing homes but instead have in-home care. Who knows how much that would run.

Find a top notch CCRC and enter while still healthy enough (ideally by 75). Sure you pay $300-500K+ in entry fees, but that covers your nursing/memory/assisted living care when you need it. Good ones mean if you "run out of money/investments" you don't owe anything else---they cannot touch your SS, only your other investments.
My parents are in one, and there are currently 4 people (all widowed women) who are late 90s/over 100 who "have run out of $". They no longer pay anything. Two are still in independent living, the others are in higher level care.
My parents pay their $7K/month for their apartment and that covers 1-2 meals per day and all utilities/cable/etc. All they pay is renters insurance.
Should they need advanced care, all we pay more is for the full 3 meals a day (so extra $300/month/person).

At 75? You want me to move to a facility at 75? I plan to still be getting the Epic pass at 75. Maybe I won't be able to do that, but I am certainly not going to plan to move to a CCRC at that age. WTF?

My thoughts exactly. Just went to my condo's HOA meeting and chatted with my 89 year old neighbor who still teaches ski lessons for fun. I plan to be like her! I also plan to be the person who had renewed their Epic pass for the most number of years, i.e., I'll be healthy until I die and hopefully I'll die quickly. Definitely don't want to be my MIL who needs care for 25+ years, wears diapers and cannot feed herself.

I mean, we would all love to be like your neighbor, but you do understand that she is an outlier. Biden was also planning to be mentally sharp in his 80s, but no doctor and no magic could make it happen. Statistically speaking, if you are a man, you’ll be dead by 89 and not skiing.

+1. After we started taking care of my in-laws I realized that it's all luck (i.e. genetics). FIL is 92, wheelchair bound, chronic health issues, zero exercise (never worked out a day in his life), poor diet of mostly rice, oats and boiled veggies. He's quite weak, but mentally sharp and doesn't really fall sick. If he does, he recovers in a few days. Meanwhile rich people, folks with personal trainers and access to top doctors and potentially custom drugs are dying in their 70s and 80s. It's all luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, the cost of care is exorbitant. My mother in law is paying $15k a month for my father in law’s nursing home (technically a rehab, but he cannot do physical therapy anymore and is just in bed for the past year.) they are Umc but not very rich.

OP here. Thanks for mentioning the cost of nursing home care. $15k a month for 2 people would mean $360k a year. It seems like it would take $10m in investments to pay for that. DH also wants both of us, and our parents, to avoid nursing homes but instead have in-home care. Who knows how much that would run.

Find a top notch CCRC and enter while still healthy enough (ideally by 75). Sure you pay $300-500K+ in entry fees, but that covers your nursing/memory/assisted living care when you need it. Good ones mean if you "run out of money/investments" you don't owe anything else---they cannot touch your SS, only your other investments.
My parents are in one, and there are currently 4 people (all widowed women) who are late 90s/over 100 who "have run out of $". They no longer pay anything. Two are still in independent living, the others are in higher level care.
My parents pay their $7K/month for their apartment and that covers 1-2 meals per day and all utilities/cable/etc. All they pay is renters insurance.
Should they need advanced care, all we pay more is for the full 3 meals a day (so extra $300/month/person).

At 75? You want me to move to a facility at 75? I plan to still be getting the Epic pass at 75. Maybe I won't be able to do that, but I am certainly not going to plan to move to a CCRC at that age. WTF?

My thoughts exactly. Just went to my condo's HOA meeting and chatted with my 89 year old neighbor who still teaches ski lessons for fun. I plan to be like her! I also plan to be the person who had renewed their Epic pass for the most number of years, i.e., I'll be healthy until I die and hopefully I'll die quickly. Definitely don't want to be my MIL who needs care for 25+ years, wears diapers and cannot feed herself.

I mean, we would all love to be like your neighbor, but you do understand that she is an outlier. Biden was also planning to be mentally sharp in his 80s, but no doctor and no magic could make it happen. Statistically speaking, if you are a man, you’ll be dead by 89 and not skiing.

+1. After we started taking care of my in-laws I realized that it's all luck (i.e. genetics). FIL is 92, wheelchair bound, chronic health issues, zero exercise (never worked out a day in his life), poor diet of mostly rice, oats and boiled veggies. He's quite weak, but mentally sharp and doesn't really fall sick. If he does, he recovers in a few days. Meanwhile rich people, folks with personal trainers and access to top doctors and potentially custom drugs are dying in their 70s and 80s. It's all luck.

That diet doesn't sound poor.

[Anonymous]

Health care costs in our country are a disgrace. Unfortunately people do underestimate this X factor. As Americans we do not age well. As early as our 40s we start developing chronic health issues. In my opinion, your current health and your best guess about your future health are the most important factor as far as how much you need for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Health care costs in our country are a disgrace. Unfortunately people do underestimate this X factor. As Americans we do not age well. As early as our 40s we start developing chronic health issues. In my opinion, your current health and your best guess about your future health are the most important factor as far as how much you need for retirement.

Can you elaborate?

My parents have both had serious health issues in their 60s and 70s but the costs have really not been hard to handle. And they live in a fairly rural place where they sometimes have to go 4 hours to see a specialist. That part sucks but the costs are covered by Medicare and a supplemental plan that is $150 per month. They've had one issue with an expensive prescription but we're able to resolve it by comparison shopping pharmacies. Despite my dad having chronic hear issues and my mom having diabetes, their medical costs are really not a big deal.

If you talk to my parents about the biggest cost increases in retirement they will tell you the cost of cable and Internet (I've tried to get them to cord cut but they love cable) and the price of travel (flights and hotels). And those things have all seem a lot of inflation. But it's not this scary issue of being hit with medical bills for tens of thousands because something isn't covered. Everything is covered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fridge 1 - $1200 lasted 10 years
Fridge 2 - $1400 current but on 10th year and will be swapped out at upcoming kitchen remodel.

I’m pretty sure both kept food same cold temperatures as your subzero. Plus I got $17400 to play with. 😁

DP but there is a coolness factor to Sub-Zero fridges. Mine has a glass door and a blue LED light - I've had it for 10 years and sometimes, when entering my kitchen, I still stop and think how cool it is. It's my favorite thing in my entire house. Of course it's not a necessity, but neither is anything besides basic food, clothes, and a roof over one's head. Also, $20K is at the very top of the price range, even for Sub-Zero fridges.

Still as dumb as buying a luxury car. Maybe even dumber.

This is stupid to buy such an expensive fridge which is already overpriced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my parents’ recent experience: too many people do not budget in the astronomical costs of assisted living, nursing homes, memory care, etc. $100k/year could be great for a healthy couple in their 60s, but it won’t cover even half the costs of good care.

This. I have been dealing with my parents' eldercare, and it is incredibly expensive.

So, sure, up until then, their expenses were low. But then they skyrocketed for care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Health care costs in our country are a disgrace. Unfortunately people do underestimate this X factor. As Americans we do not age well. As early as our 40s we start developing chronic health issues. In my opinion, your current health and your best guess about your future health are the most important factor as far as how much you need for retirement.

Can you elaborate?

My parents have both had serious health issues in their 60s and 70s but the costs have really not been hard to handle. And they live in a fairly rural place where they sometimes have to go 4 hours to see a specialist. That part sucks but the costs are covered by Medicare and a supplemental plan that is $150 per month. They've had one issue with an expensive prescription but we're able to resolve it by comparison shopping pharmacies. Despite my dad having chronic hear issues and my mom having diabetes, their medical costs are really not a big deal.

If you talk to my parents about the biggest cost increases in retirement they will tell you the cost of cable and Internet (I've tried to get them to cord cut but they love cable) and the price of travel (flights and hotels). And those things have all seem a lot of inflation. But it's not this scary issue of being hit with medical bills for tens of thousands because something isn't covered. Everything is covered.

DP. It is the help when they can no longer live in their homes, either at all, or without help. Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, or at home care can easily run 200K+.

I know several people who were depending on an inheritance, and now watching that money get drained with eldercare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, the cost of care is exorbitant. My mother in law is paying $15k a month for my father in law’s nursing home (technically a rehab, but he cannot do physical therapy anymore and is just in bed for the past year.) they are Umc but not very rich.

OP here. Thanks for mentioning the cost of nursing home care. $15k a month for 2 people would mean $360k a year. It seems like it would take $10m in investments to pay for that. DH also wants both of us, and our parents, to avoid nursing homes but instead have in-home care. Who knows how much that would run.

Find a top notch CCRC and enter while still healthy enough (ideally by 75). Sure you pay $300-500K+ in entry fees, but that covers your nursing/memory/assisted living care when you need it. Good ones mean if you "run out of money/investments" you don't owe anything else---they cannot touch your SS, only your other investments.
My parents are in one, and there are currently 4 people (all widowed women) who are late 90s/over 100 who "have run out of $". They no longer pay anything. Two are still in independent living, the others are in higher level care.
My parents pay their $7K/month for their apartment and that covers 1-2 meals per day and all utilities/cable/etc. All they pay is renters insurance.
Should they need advanced care, all we pay more is for the full 3 meals a day (so extra $300/month/person).

At 75? You want me to move to a facility at 75? I plan to still be getting the Epic pass at 75. Maybe I won't be able to do that, but I am certainly not going to plan to move to a CCRC at that age. WTF?

It is funny how many people on this board are fanatics about health and diet, but also plan to be in an old folks home by 75. I'm old, but my DH is older (in his mid-70s) and he goes to the gym and walks miles every day. We maintain our yard and pool ourselves. We don't plan on needing to be a retirement community until we're in our late 80's, at least. We can afford to pay for any care we will need, and I'd rather stay in my house while we're still enjoying it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Health care costs in our country are a disgrace. Unfortunately people do underestimate this X factor. As Americans we do not age well. As early as our 40s we start developing chronic health issues. In my opinion, your current health and your best guess about your future health are the most important factor as far as how much you need for retirement.

Can you elaborate?

My parents have both had serious health issues in their 60s and 70s but the costs have really not been hard to handle. And they live in a fairly rural place where they sometimes have to go 4 hours to see a specialist. That part sucks but the costs are covered by Medicare and a supplemental plan that is $150 per month. They've had one issue with an expensive prescription but we're able to resolve it by comparison shopping pharmacies. Despite my dad having chronic hear issues and my mom having diabetes, their medical costs are really not a big deal.

If you talk to my parents about the biggest cost increases in retirement they will tell you the cost of cable and Internet (I've tried to get them to cord cut but they love cable) and the price of travel (flights and hotels). And those things have all seem a lot of inflation. But it's not this scary issue of being hit with medical bills for tens of thousands because something isn't covered. Everything is covered.

DP. It is the help when they can no longer live in their homes, either at all, or without help. Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, or at home care can easily run 200K+.

I know several people who were depending on an inheritance, and now watching that money get drained with eldercare.

That's the thing about planning to have an "UMC" retirement -- if you plan to spending $350-400k a year in retirement, then the $200k in care is covered. The money that you spent on cars and travel when you were healthier gets shifted to care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People over-budget for and over-idealize travel. I’ve done my fair share of exotic travel and found that people everywhere are pretty much doing the same thing (imagine that!). My own bed, couch, food and car are great for me - I don’t need to rent someone else’s to be happy. Sure, I like a trip every now and then, but I’m not going to work longer to spend $25-50k year on travel.

As a retired person who spends a lot on travel, relatively little of it is globe trotting. We travel to see family, we travel to take grandchildren to a sporting event, we travel to help a younger family member move to a new town, we travel within the US to be in a better climate at certain times of the year, etc etc. It adds up.

[Anonymous]

To answer the question: we think 200-250k/year is more than enough for a comfortable retirement in a hcol area, both for the early years and for the later years. That’s what we are using as a target. (250 if we have a mortgage , 200 if we sell our current home and downsize). Long term care is the biggest unknown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’ll get such a wide range of answers here. For example, 250k is a lot.

I’m part of a financial forum and most who have been retired a while say they spend less than they planned. Some do choose to pay a lot for health insurance plans. Those on the ACA are paying low costs for good care.

I’d consider:
Any deferred maintenance (roof, etc)
Mortgage and property taxes
Travel
Utilities
Groceries
Cars
Etc

I added ours up and could barely get past $50k / year and that included traveling.

If you don’t calculate correctly, you might end up thinking you have to work longer than you do. No problem working longer if that’s your life goal but most want to have more time for other pursuits.

My sister is an empty nester in NJ. She said their monthly expenses is about $7k to $8k. They have high a deductible insurance paid for by her DH's employer, and they still have a mortgage. It think their PITI is similar to ours.

We will retire early so we will get ACA. We expect our outgoing expenses to be about $10K, including health insurance, but excluding traveling.

We will still have a mortgage -- PITI $2500.

Our current monthly expenses is about the same now, in our UMC neighborhood, and that includes some travel for four. We have one DC at home; another at college. 529 full funded.

We are estimating $140k net of tax, including travel and private health insurance (still have to pay for two kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Health care costs in our country are a disgrace. Unfortunately people do underestimate this X factor. As Americans we do not age well. As early as our 40s we start developing chronic health issues. In my opinion, your current health and your best guess about your future health are the most important factor as far as how much you need for retirement.

Can you elaborate?

My parents have both had serious health issues in their 60s and 70s but the costs have really not been hard to handle. And they live in a fairly rural place where they sometimes have to go 4 hours to see a specialist. That part sucks but the costs are covered by Medicare and a supplemental plan that is $150 per month. They've had one issue with an expensive prescription but we're able to resolve it by comparison shopping pharmacies. Despite my dad having chronic hear issues and my mom having diabetes, their medical costs are really not a big deal.

If you talk to my parents about the biggest cost increases in retirement they will tell you the cost of cable and Internet (I've tried to get them to cord cut but they love cable) and the price of travel (flights and hotels). And those things have all seem a lot of inflation. But it's not this scary issue of being hit with medical bills for tens of thousands because something isn't covered. Everything is covered.

DP. It is the help when they can no longer live in their homes, either at all, or without help. Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing, or at home care can easily run 200K+.

I know several people who were depending on an inheritance, and now watching that money get drained with eldercare.

That's the thing about planning to have an "UMC" retirement -- if you plan to spending $350-400k a year in retirement, then the $200k in care is covered. The money that you spent on cars and travel when you were healthier gets shifted to care.

This. Many people on this board are vastly overestimating what they need because they fear long term care costs

[Anonymous]

If you need a 24h caregiver or demebtia care that alone will cost you $200K per year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll get such a wide range of answers here. For example, 250k is a lot.

I’m part of a financial forum and most who have been retired a while say they spend less than they planned. Some do choose to pay a lot for health insurance plans. Those on the ACA are paying low costs for good care.

I’d consider:
Any deferred maintenance (roof, etc)
Mortgage and property taxes
Travel
Utilities
Groceries
Cars
Etc

I added ours up and could barely get past $50k / year and that included traveling.

If you don’t calculate correctly, you might end up thinking you have to work longer than you do. No problem working longer if that’s your life goal but most want to have more time for other pursuits.

My sister is an empty nester in NJ. She said their monthly expenses is about $7k to $8k. They have high a deductible insurance paid for by her DH's employer, and they still have a mortgage. It think their PITI is similar to ours.

We will retire early so we will get ACA. We expect our outgoing expenses to be about $10K, including health insurance, but excluding traveling.

We will still have a mortgage -- PITI $2500.

Our current monthly expenses is about the same now, in our UMC neighborhood, and that includes some travel for four. We have one DC at home; another at college. 529 full funded.

We are estimating $140k net of tax, including travel and private health insurance (still have to pay for two kids).

In NJ property taxes will kill you. A 750 home can have 20K+ taxes/year. Similar for NYC area suburbs in NY state