How much do you need for an UMC retirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper Middle Class people don't do much. Mu MIL and mother in retirement only traveled once every few years and only if a wedding or something, went out to dinner or lunch 2-3 times a year only if a reason like former co-workers or neighbor get together.

They do not buy new cars and budget is for house and gifts for grandkids at parties.

My MIL lives in her paid off house at 83. Has no maid or landscaper. Does her own grocery shopping and drivers her perfectly good 2003 car with low miles.

I don't think my MIL has been on a plane in the last 20 years. She can afford to but at 83 and a widow she dont want to.

From what I saw with my grandparents and now see with my parents, it seems like there are three periods of retirement:

1. The active years (roughly 60-75) are when you spend a lot of hobbies and travel.
2. The sedentary but still independent years (roughly 75-85) are when you don't spend much.
3. End-of-life care years (roughly 85+) are when you again spend a lot.

We probably need $300k annually in Phase 1, $80k annually in Phase 2, and up to $300k annually in Phase 3. By Phase 3, we can spend down assets like our home, which has a lot of equity that we don't include for retirement planning purposes, but it would become available and could fully fund extra expenses in Phase 3 over Phase 2. Since we have substantial home equity (say $1.5m+), I favor drawing down more than 4% in Phase 1 to enjoy life as much as possible while we're healthy and active.

Thanks for putting this into perspective. Your Phase 1 is why I’m trying to retire at 50 (or earlier if possible) to maximize my time on Earth while I’m healthy and able to do things

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, the cost of care is exorbitant. My mother in law is paying $15k a month for my father in law’s nursing home (technically a rehab, but he cannot do physical therapy anymore and is just in bed for the past year.) they are Umc but not very rich.

OP here. Thanks for mentioning the cost of nursing home care. $15k a month for 2 people would mean $360k a year. It seems like it would take $10m in investments to pay for that. DH also wants both of us, and our parents, to avoid nursing homes but instead have in-home care. Who knows how much that would run.

Find a top notch CCRC and enter while still healthy enough (ideally by 75). Sure you pay $300-500K+ in entry fees, but that covers your nursing/memory/assisted living care when you need it. Good ones mean if you "run out of money/investments" you don't owe anything else---they cannot touch your SS, only your other investments.
My parents are in one, and there are currently 4 people (all widowed women) who are late 90s/over 100 who "have run out of $". They no longer pay anything. Two are still in independent living, the others are in higher level care.
My parents pay their $7K/month for their apartment and that covers 1-2 meals per day and all utilities/cable/etc. All they pay is renters insurance.
Should they need advanced care, all we pay more is for the full 3 meals a day (so extra $300/month/person).

At 75? You want me to move to a facility at 75? I plan to still be getting the Epic pass at 75. Maybe I won't be able to do that, but I am certainly not going to plan to move to a CCRC at that age. WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fridge 1 - $1200 lasted 10 years
Fridge 2 - $1400 current but on 10th year and will be swapped out at upcoming kitchen remodel.

I’m pretty sure both kept food same cold temperatures as your subzero. Plus I got $17400 to play with. 😁

For two fridges, you'd have $37,400.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my parents’ recent experience: too many people do not budget in the astronomical costs of assisted living, nursing homes, memory care, etc. $100k/year could be great for a healthy couple in their 60s, but it won’t cover even half the costs of good care.

This.

[Anonymous]

People over-budget for and over-idealize travel. I’ve done my fair share of exotic travel and found that people everywhere are pretty much doing the same thing (imagine that!). My own bed, couch, food and car are great for me - I don’t need to rent someone else’s to be happy. Sure, I like a trip every now and then, but I’m not going to work longer to spend $25-50k year on travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, the cost of care is exorbitant. My mother in law is paying $15k a month for my father in law’s nursing home (technically a rehab, but he cannot do physical therapy anymore and is just in bed for the past year.) they are Umc but not very rich.

OP here. Thanks for mentioning the cost of nursing home care. $15k a month for 2 people would mean $360k a year. It seems like it would take $10m in investments to pay for that. DH also wants both of us, and our parents, to avoid nursing homes but instead have in-home care. Who knows how much that would run.

Find a top notch CCRC and enter while still healthy enough (ideally by 75). Sure you pay $300-500K+ in entry fees, but that covers your nursing/memory/assisted living care when you need it. Good ones mean if you "run out of money/investments" you don't owe anything else---they cannot touch your SS, only your other investments.
My parents are in one, and there are currently 4 people (all widowed women) who are late 90s/over 100 who "have run out of $". They no longer pay anything. Two are still in independent living, the others are in higher level care.
My parents pay their $7K/month for their apartment and that covers 1-2 meals per day and all utilities/cable/etc. All they pay is renters insurance.
Should they need advanced care, all we pay more is for the full 3 meals a day (so extra $300/month/person).

Everyone I know who suggests one of these facilities is a HUGE spender and terrible with money management.

$7k a month for rent on top of 300-500k to buy in? That’s laughable.

The average American is in LTC 2 years max. Most people do not spend anywhere close to what you’re suggesting.

I particularly don't understand people who insist on working longer to hit numbers like 10m in retirement assets so that they can afford expensive LTC facilities because the question of LTC is a quality of life issue -- it's driven by the fear of winding up in a substandard care facility. Which I agree is a concern. However working well into my 60s or 70s in order to afford a luxury LTC facility makes no sense because that's a huge decline in my quality of life in my 60s and 70s.

We'll have an 80k per year pension and about 2.5m in retirement assets at 58. College and house will be paid for by then. Good enough for us. I want to enjoy my life for the next couple decades after that. If or when we have to enter LTC we will have the option of selling our home to do it. Good enough. I'm not going spend my 60s working so I can be in the cadillac version of LTC in my 80s with dementia. Willing to roll the dice in order to enjoy my life while I'm young enough for it to really count.

OP here. The irony is that delaying retirement can prevent or delay dementia.

Depends on the job. A high stress job or one where you are very isolated (even if you are using your brain) is unlikely to do much to prevent dementia.

I can see myself doing a career change to something lower paid but social and active in my 50s and continuing to work for longer. But I have a stressful job where I mostly do very solitary work. And since it became WFT full time during Covid (my company doesn't even have an office anymore) it is very hard for me to imagine staying in it once my pension vests at 55. If I can find something else (even something part time) that keeps me active for another decade then I'll do it. But staying in this job I don't enjoy anymore with the idea that sitting at a computer doing technical writing and working on spreadsheets by myself in a home office is going to prevent dementia seems really dumb. If I can't find a job like this I could see myself volunteering to get the same benefits.

I can see how people with active and enjoyable jobs might stay in them longer. But then you're staying in the job because you like it and aren't ready to retire. Not because you have to hit a higher retirement target in order to afford LTC.

[Anonymous]

The irony of everyone planning super fancy retirements is that fancy doesn’t matter. My clothes, food, car, and house provide all the functionality that yours does, and I sleep well at night, unstressed by my finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The irony of everyone planning super fancy retirements is that fancy doesn’t matter. My clothes, food, car, and house provide all the functionality that yours does, and I sleep well at night, unstressed by my finances.

Yeah I sure as heck am not going to work an extra 5 years in order to be able to afford a sub-zero fridge lol. Sounds like a cool fridge but absolutely not worth waiting to retire!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UMC income is likely $250,000, so you will need over $6 million in income generating assets.

Do you really need that as a senior citizen? House is paid for. If it’s a large house it’s a good time to downsize. You’d be debt free. Your bills would be taxes, cars, utilities, travel if you want. Not all that much in expenses.

This. No more kids or college-related expenses, house will long ago have been paid for. And we will have no need to live close to the city/jobs so we could sell the house and move somewhere with lower cost of living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony of everyone planning super fancy retirements is that fancy doesn’t matter. My clothes, food, car, and house provide all the functionality that yours does, and I sleep well at night, unstressed by my finances.

Yeah I sure as heck am not going to work an extra 5 years in order to be able to afford a sub-zero fridge lol. Sounds like a cool fridge but absolutely not worth waiting to retire!

Yup. That’s the kicker with more material stuff - it doesn’t really improve your life. Sure, a Ferrari or Mercedes is a nice car - I’ll grant that - but I love my Subaru, and the insurance, gas, and maintenance are much cheaper.

Same thing with big houses, property taxes ($20k!), club dues, etc. if you’ve got the money and it’s your thing, go for it, but I’m happy in my 3000 sqft, $700k house with property taxes of $4k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People over-budget for and over-idealize travel. I’ve done my fair share of exotic travel and found that people everywhere are pretty much doing the same thing (imagine that!). My own bed, couch, food and car are great for me - I don’t need to rent someone else’s to be happy. Sure, I like a trip every now and then, but I’m not going to work longer to spend $25-50k year on travel.

+100

If there's anything more overrated in the human experience than travel -- I mean overrated in the *entire human experience*, not just as something that money can buy or that will bring pleasure in retirement -- I have yet to identify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fridge 1 - $1200 lasted 10 years
Fridge 2 - $1400 current but on 10th year and will be swapped out at upcoming kitchen remodel.

I’m pretty sure both kept food same cold temperatures as your subzero. Plus I got $17400 to play with. 😁

+1. Current stupid Sub Zero owner. Never again. Nice, beautiful unit but not happy with carrying the annual $500 appliance price distance on it. Simplicity is best - your damn GE fridge breaks, pull it out, get a new one. Yes…they all cool to 36 degrees!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my parents’ recent experience: too many people do not budget in the astronomical costs of assisted living, nursing homes, memory care, etc. $100k/year could be great for a healthy couple in their 60s, but it won’t cover even half the costs of good care.

Good to think about!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lol at the poster saying that you’ll have to maintain your spoiled adult child in retirement. That’s on you! Raise them to be independent and cut them off once they get a job lol. So ridiculous

PP, relax. It sounded like a joke.

[Anonymous]

Another total joke are these people who think they need to fund three generations before they retire: themselves, their kids, and their grandchildren. I’m not working extra so that the two generations after me don’t have to. It’s fine if you have good fortune and want to share the wealth, but this is not “saving for retirement.”