Tj prep companies $$$ wow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you're stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

True, but to many of us, this was a feature since it was a way to ensure only children of affluent families could participate and kept the rif-raf to a minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

Yes, and the reality was the main beneficiaries of the change were low-income Asian families. The overall makeup of TJ isn't; all that different so if this claim about diversity was true they failed miserably but personally I never bought that nonsense. It is after all a race blind process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

Yes, and the reality was the main beneficiaries of the change were low-income Asian families. The overall makeup of TJ isn't; all that different so if this claim about diversity was true they failed miserably but personally I never bought that nonsense. It is after all a race blind process.

Geez. Who do you think you're fooling?
The asian population at TJ went from 75% to 55%.
We all saw the racism being exhibited during process of changing TJ admissions.
We all saw the racial focus in the communications between the school board members as they pushed forward the new process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

Yes, and the reality was the main beneficiaries of the change were low-income Asian families. The overall makeup of TJ isn't; all that different so if this claim about diversity was true they failed miserably but personally I never bought that nonsense. It is after all a race blind process.

Geez. Who do you think you're fooling?
The asian population at TJ went from 75% to 55%.
We all saw the racism being exhibited during process of changing TJ admissions.
We all saw the racial focus in the communications between the school board members as they pushed forward the new process.

The data shows that Asian enrollment has stayed the same or even gone up. Asians are only 15% of the population in FC and are the most well-represented cohort at TJ. WHo is fooling who here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After seeing mentioned here I looked at 2 of the TJ prep companies. Both Curie and TJ Test Prep are about $2k for 6-8 week class (with a self-paced option for about $700). Wow! To read here the prep companies did increase acceptance chances when was old admission standards, but the prep classes still helpful now?

The way Curie approaches teaching is very different. They primarily focus on strong foundation so you can do well in any exam not just TJ. They don’t prepare you to get into TJ. Teachers there work very hard and expect the same from students so they do well in school and life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

Yes, and the reality was the main beneficiaries of the change were low-income Asian families. The overall makeup of TJ isn't; all that different so if this claim about diversity was true they failed miserably but personally I never bought that nonsense. It is after all a race blind process.

Geez. Who do you think you're fooling?
The asian population at TJ went from 75% to 55%.
We all saw the racism being exhibited during process of changing TJ admissions.
We all saw the racial focus in the communications between the school board members as they pushed forward the new process.

The data shows that Asian enrollment has stayed the same or even gone up. Asians are only 15% of the population in FC and are the most well-represented cohort at TJ. WHo is fooling who here?

Asians are about 50% of the applicant pool and about 55% of the admitted students.
The racial profile of the admitted looks very similar to the racial profile of the applicant pool.
The selection process is relatively random (with a preference for poor kids and kids from underrepresented schools).
But you knew these things already, didn't you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After seeing mentioned here I looked at 2 of the TJ prep companies. Both Curie and TJ Test Prep are about $2k for 6-8 week class (with a self-paced option for about $700). Wow! To read here the prep companies did increase acceptance chances when was old admission standards, but the prep classes still helpful now?

The way Curie approaches teaching is very different. They primarily focus on strong foundation so you can do well in any exam not just TJ. They don’t prepare you to get into TJ. Teachers there work very hard and expect the same from students so they do well in school and life

I only know about curie from this board but if it is anything like the cram schools in flushing NYC, it is a high intensity enrichment program that gets you from grade 3 to 12 with maybe an add on test prep class you can take for a couple hundred bucks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC attends Curie, and we moved from Kumon for cost reasons. For multiple subjects, Curie is much cheaper than Kumon. Curie as year long grade enrichment for advanced math, english, science and summer courses, has been working well.

But not sure how effective it is to enroll just at the tail end in one month tj essay prep course. Think of this in terms of - how effective would Kumon be if student enrolled for just a month before final exam. Mastering math takes years, not a month or two.

There is a difference between year long enrichment and test prep. Test prep is about 10 hours of instruction on testing format, time management, things like process of elimination and how to guess, and practice exams. Some commenters are basically saying that practice exams are cheating.
If you are learning substantive material that might be useful on a mathcounts competition, etc. then this is just studying.

What do practice exams mean? periodic assessments? At Curie, there are upfront placement tests and periodic assessments along the way, and before moving to the next level, similar to Kumon. The overall curriculum is fast paced and high rigor, so these checkpoint assessments help in deciding if student wants to continue to dropout. Considerable number dropout.

Practice exams in the test prep context means taking a previously administered test from a few years ago.

This whole curie thing comes from a bunch of people who are just looking for reasons to justify their racism by saying that the reason they changed the admissions process was to combat the rampant cheating coming out of curie. They accuse curie of selling TJ test answers and allowing their students to effectively buy their way into tj. It's stupid and racist. if you watched the hearings surrounding the change in admissions process, there was a lot of ugly racism on display against all asians but particulary against the indians because they are the newcomers.

Too bad it all actually happened and has been proven here over and over.

The only part that actually happened was the racism during the hearings and the racism driving the changes to the admissions process.

The admissions changes were driven by a desire for racial balancing not to counteract cheating.
BTW, the cheating at question here is that some kids shared their recollection about the test questions and format with curie after the test.

People are guessing that this happened. What is known (at least some have said they saw it) is that Curie gave had a bank of qiuestions that might be asked and kids said they saw exact questions.

But many more have said it's a made-up story! A fabricated story concocted to hurt Curie's reputition, but paradoxically sends more business towards them

No, it's not a made-up story. It's real.
Curie posted names of students but had to remove them when the scandal came out.

It's been covered here over and over. There were links to multiple news sources just a few weeks ago and god knows how many first-hand accounts.

other than fake posts on this forum and facebook tj vents, what news sources?

It was covered extensively here the other week in a recent thread. There were a half-dozen links there. You're going to have to do your own leg work this time, but I imagine you already know all this and just like to keep asking.

It wasn't exactly a scandal but some students shared what they saw at the test and this gave people an idea of the test format and question type.

There are claims that the test company used the same question year after year, effectively giving some kids advance knowledge of the test questions.
This is effectively malpractice in the testing world and seems hard to believe.
The format of the test is well known enough that you can buy books on amazon about the test.
https://www.amazon.com/Quant-Test-Prep-Book-Practice/dp/109286427X

If you think people shouldn't be allowed to study for a test then that is a different conversation.

so the bogus claim is a student shared questions from a test prep book widely available on amazon?

I think the claim is that some of the test questions given in year two were identical to test questions given in year one, so if a tutor got the test questions from last year's students, then this year's students walk into the test having already seen some of the questions before. If that in fact happened then the testing company is guilty of testing malpractice and that would have been newsworthy. But yeah, the test question format and type are publicly known.

It's mostly just racist envy. People trying to explain away the success of a minority so the world makes more sense to them. In a world of structural racism and white supremacy, somehow the children of brown skinned indian immigrants are the ones coming out on top. You have to make it make sense, so you pretend that they were all born rich and this is all wealth advantage. That plus the cheating.

Jim crow whites used to do something similar with blacks and jews so their white supremacist worldview made sense.

These days it is racism from the left trying to make their DEI/CRT worldview make sense.

The questions were similar, which invalidates the results given that they are trying to evaluate the critical thinking skills.

Are you saying that standardized tests cannot measure critical thinking unless noone knows the format of the test? ROFLMAO

Are you saying it's only valid if kids are given the answers to all the questions up front?

Noone was given all the answers or any of the answers up front.
This was never about improving the selection process.
This was about selecting a more palatable racial mix.

We have decades of research supporting testing as a measure of academic merit.
Then someone published a paper saying that test scores track with income and everyone that was looking for an excuse to scrap testing got rid of testing.
They wanted to get rid of testing because they didn't like the racial disparity in test results.
FCPS latched onto this and said "well if it's good enough for harvard, then it should be good enough for us" and followed suit.
Now that Harvard is requiring testing again, shouldn't that argue for reinstating testing at TJ?

Once again, this had nothing to do with selecting better students and everything to do with selecting a more palatable racial mix.

Many people were able to buy access to the test. It was a rigged and corrupt system that some still ironically prefer.

Noone believes you, not even you
Noone thinks the changes were made because of the flaws in testing, not even you.
Everyone knows this change was driven by a desire to get fewer asians and more of every other race including white kids.
You're a racist. Like, right at this moment, you are struggling with a part of yourself that is outraged at these indians that dare to want more than you are willing to give them.
You know all these things.

NP, but give it a rest. Clearly you've convinced yourself this is true, but a very large number of parents disagree with you and believe things differently than you do. I don't understand why people cling so tightly to their particualar POVs and assume others who see it differently must all be disingenuous. Sure, I think that most of what you're saying above is BS, but at least I don't question that you believe it.

Reality is not a faith based system.
If you say that this change was driven by some desire to improve the quality of students rather than a desire for more racial diversity, your either lying or stupid.
You know this was about race.
Anybody that followed this knows it was about race.

Well, I don't think you're lying about what you're thinking. And just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm going to call you stupid. One need not characterize reality as "a faith based system" to accept that in reality different people can see the same evidence and come to different well-reasoned conclusions.

Reality is not based on what you believe when there are objective facts surrounding the change in the admission process that shows that the change was driven by race.
There is no honest way to reach the conclusion that this was not racially driven, unless you engage in faith based reasoning.
You can conclude that it was a good thing despite the racial motives but you cannot conclude that it was not driven by race.
You certainly can't conclude that this was an attempt to improve the caliber of student by eliminating objective measures of academic ability because they might be affected by preparation and studying.
They got rid of the test because they didn't like the racial distribution of test scores.

Sorry, but just because you don't/can't/won't see it that way doesn't make it incorrect or dishonest. All the declarative statements in the world about your perspective being the only honest one do nothing to actually support your claim, they just show that you have blinders on. Stating things so forcefully and dogmatically are not evidence of correctness, no matter how much you might wish them to be so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After seeing mentioned here I looked at 2 of the TJ prep companies. Both Curie and TJ Test Prep are about $2k for 6-8 week class (with a self-paced option for about $700). Wow! To read here the prep companies did increase acceptance chances when was old admission standards, but the prep classes still helpful now?

The way Curie approaches teaching is very different. They primarily focus on strong foundation so you can do well in any exam not just TJ. They don’t prepare you to get into TJ. Teachers there work very hard and expect the same from students so they do well in school and life

I only know about curie from this board but if it is anything like the cram schools in flushing NYC, it is a high intensity enrichment program that gets you from grade 3 to 12 with maybe an add on test prep class you can take for a couple hundred bucks.

This board and particularly the fake test buying narrative has increased Curie's business dramatically in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After seeing mentioned here I looked at 2 of the TJ prep companies. Both Curie and TJ Test Prep are about $2k for 6-8 week class (with a self-paced option for about $700). Wow! To read here the prep companies did increase acceptance chances when was old admission standards, but the prep classes still helpful now?

The way Curie approaches teaching is very different. They primarily focus on strong foundation so you can do well in any exam not just TJ. They don’t prepare you to get into TJ. Teachers there work very hard and expect the same from students so they do well in school and life

I only know about curie from this board but if it is anything like the cram schools in flushing NYC, it is a high intensity enrichment program that gets you from grade 3 to 12 with maybe an add on test prep class you can take for a couple hundred bucks.

This board and particularly the fake test buying narrative has increased Curie's business dramatically in recent years.

There have been multiple corroborating articles. Links were posted even recently, not to mention dozens with first-hand accounts. It's well-documented. Sure you preferred a system that was easy to game but nobody is buying your false claims.