Why a 300-400k salary doesn't feel rich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

Wow, what a snotty response.

And also wrong. 250k HHI is rich. Not being able to write 90k tuition checks doesn’t make one “middle class”. Americans have completely lost their minds about what is needed vs what is wanted and 250k gets you well into the “want” category of consumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

It’s true. I think what’s happening is people are “counting their blessings” and thinking how truly advantaged they are compared to the poorest in our country.

Which is contentious to do, and of course compared to the average HHI (which is shockingly low) you are indeed well-off. But rich? Well. Like PP said, rich don’t worry about how to pay for college. I myself am luckier than many, but I know rich, and at 300k I am much closer to the poorest than to the wealthy. The rich in this country are loathsome on a whole.

Wait… at 250k you’re agreeing they’re middle class but at 300k you “know you’re rich”. So is the cut off 275k? Someone explain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh.

We make $450ish (more like $410 last year) and it's pretty rich.

We live in a $1m+ house.
We do not typically think about, nor do we have to, groceries or gas or coffee or takeout or summer camp.
We haven't prioritized college savings, but we could pay cash, yes, even for a $70K school (we don't want to but we'll see).
We get new cars when we want them.
If we want to renovate or something, we would just pay cash or take a HELOC or stop contributing to one of the many many investment or savings accounts we have temporarily. This would feel BAD but it is a blessing.
If we aren't going to Europe this summer it's because it's our choice and we want to prioritize cash savings. It's not because we can't.

We are lucky and relatively, rich. In the upper-middle class no worries relative to others sense. And there are MANY families richer than us at our W school.

Get some perspective if you think 400K isn't well off. Unless you have 7 kids and 3 parents in assisted living that you pay for, you should be more than OK.

This is us too. Though more like $510K last year....its the first time we've ever been over $450K. We don't really budget and all our investments are on auto-pilot so we are not even missing it. Finally had to start moving money out of two bank accounts because we were nearing the FDIC limit. That said, we don't spend much. Vacations are visiting family and staying with them. Or beach rental with three generations at OBX. Still shop mostly at TJs and Costco. Kids clothes are Old Navy, Target, or Carters. No real fancy hobbies except solo ski trips with a friend or two (and almost always using points for flights/hotels). Biggest expense is mortgage ($4K + $500 extra toward principal) and daycare ($2.3K). Oldest kid in public school.

We are in the top 98th percentile for income in the U.S., but it doesn't really feel the way I thought it would. No nice cars (2019 Subaru + hand-me-down Lexus that is fifteen years old). No country club. No fancy shopping trips. No paying for business class. I guess we could splurge on that stuff, but I'd like us to retire before age 60 and that's when my kids will be hitting college. So I need college paid up in advance.

So yeah, even if you have a high income you tend to (1) not have time for the nice stuff and (2) you're likely a worrier by nature and concerned about college + retirement + elder care. Most Americans just blow off those concerns and buy a $65K truck on credit for 60 months. *shrug*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh.

We make $450ish (more like $410 last year) and it's pretty rich.

We live in a $1m+ house.
We do not typically think about, nor do we have to, groceries or gas or coffee or takeout or summer camp.
We haven't prioritized college savings, but we could pay cash, yes, even for a $70K school (we don't want to but we'll see).
We get new cars when we want them.
If we want to renovate or something, we would just pay cash or take a HELOC or stop contributing to one of the many many investment or savings accounts we have temporarily. This would feel BAD but it is a blessing.
If we aren't going to Europe this summer it's because it's our choice and we want to prioritize cash savings. It's not because we can't.

We are lucky and relatively, rich. In the upper-middle class no worries relative to others sense. And there are MANY families richer than us at our W school.

Get some perspective if you think 400K isn't well off. Unless you have 7 kids and 3 parents in assisted living that you pay for, you should be more than OK.

The problem is on 400 you can pick and choose your luxuries but you can’t have all of them at once. You can have the nice new car every 3 years and the country club membership but you need to compensate by not doing the elaborate ski trip or Europe trip every year, or maybe send the kids to public. Mid 6 figure incomes bring too many compromises in lifestyle to be able to say you’re rich.

This is exactly right. It's all about the definition of "rich". I realize people making quite a bit less would look at 400K as rich, but they are not. Of course, they are very fortunate to be able to make choices on how to use the money, but those are choices that come at the expense of something else.

Because you “can’t afford every luxury” doesn’t exclude you from being rich.

People with a net worth of 50M and income annually of 1-2M can’t afford to purchase a private plane or mega yacht. Are they now middle class too? Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

Wow, what a snotty response.

And also wrong. 250k HHI is rich. Not being able to write 90k tuition checks doesn’t make one “middle class”. Americans have completely lost their minds about what is needed vs what is wanted and 250k gets you well into the “want” category of consumption.

Another poor person struggling with the concept of rich that she thinks everyone who makes a dollar more than she does is rich. This forum never fails to amuse me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

It’s true. I think what’s happening is people are “counting their blessings” and thinking how truly advantaged they are compared to the poorest in our country.

Which is contentious to do, and of course compared to the average HHI (which is shockingly low) you are indeed well-off. But rich? Well. Like PP said, rich don’t worry about how to pay for college. I myself am luckier than many, but I know rich, and at 300k I am much closer to the poorest than to the wealthy. The rich in this country are loathsome on a whole.

Wait… at 250k you’re agreeing they’re middle class but at 300k you “know you’re rich”. So is the cut off 275k? Someone explain.

No one is rich until they have accumulated at least 10M. The law partner making $2M isn't rich if they only have a few million saved. I do my 40yr old SIL's taxes and she makes 900k and has about 200k to her name. She's more or less broke and I laugh about it every year because she thinks she's "rich". I am years younger than her make not too far off from her, have accumulated enough money for two lives, but she thinks we are probably so behind her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing new here. Another UMC poster with a huge sense of entitlement and no clue how most people live. We make $400k and have two kids. We are not wanting anything. Unless you have medical or special needs, you are either entitled or poor at money management or both.

So you admit that you're UMC at 400k, and not rich? Glad you acknowledged it.

Yes, it's great being UMC and having rainy day funds and being able to afford a lot more than someone who plods through life at 50k, but I'm not deluding myself that I'm rich either. I'm comfortable.

Rich is something else different. Financially and emotionally as well. If I lost my job tomorrow, things would become tight even with our savings and investments because we'd not want to blow through it, and I'd always be worried until I found a new job. A rich person never has to worry about money, or even working in the first place. I know people in that position. They live and experience life in a very different way from a working stiff like me.

It's why F Scott Fitzgerald said the rich are different from you and me. Not sure why some people struggle with this. Pretending you're rich because you live in a decent suburb with a six figure income is a laughable concept, and saying you're rich because you have good friends is changing the topic altogether and is something only poorer people say.

DP here. Not exactly. We live far enough beneath our means that we’ve amassed huge savings and could live several years with no job or indefinitely with jobs with lower incomes.

You can be rich two ways - by acquiring much or by desiring little. Life isn’t lacking for us the way it seems to be for you.

Nonsense. You're changing the meaning of rich from what is commonly accepted. And blaming me! And accusing me of having a "lacking life"! And guess what, I also can live without working for a few years too.

But....

Are you able to charter a private jet and take a group of friends on a fancy safari in Africa? No.

Are you able to drop 10 million for a waterfront house in Nantucket? No.

Are you sleeping at night with the knowledge that your children and even grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives if they don't want to? No.

That's rich. It's a very different world and way of living. Having comfortable retirement savings doesn't make you rich. You're fulfilled. But fulfilled isn't rich. A poor person can still be fulfilled through close family and friends, but it has nothing to do with being rich. It's clear you have no idea who the rich are.

I feel sorry for you.

Why? What exactly are you struggling with? Your failure to understand what rich means? From what I can tell, according to some posters on this thread, anyone with a bit of money in the bank is rich, irregardless of whether it's 50k in savings or 50 million or 5 billion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get what OP is saying. We make more than OP and have a nice net worth. We live in an expensive house that carries a high property tax burden. Affording our house is no problem, but I acknowledge that a $25K tax bill on the house every year is not insignificant. We own our cars outright and don't carry debt. Technically we are in the top 1% of earners, but we consider ourselves 'working rich', meaning if the gravy train comes to a halt tomorrow we would be pressed to make some lifestyle decisions if the cashflow changes. My family enjoys life, but we know money is not to be taken for granted. Yes, we have savings, retirement accounts, college funded, as well as taking very nice vacations, we can eat out whenever we want, buy any groceries we want, attend any ticketed events/activities we want, wear any clothes we want, but with inflation and rising costs, I stop and ask if these things are worth the inflated costs. $100 today isn't what it was 5 or 10 years ago. DMV is not a cheap area.

The taxes on your big fancy house doesn’t exclude you from being rich. Buy a smaller house with a lower tax burden if you can’t afford it. Seems like money management 101

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

It’s true. I think what’s happening is people are “counting their blessings” and thinking how truly advantaged they are compared to the poorest in our country.

Which is contentious to do, and of course compared to the average HHI (which is shockingly low) you are indeed well-off. But rich? Well. Like PP said, rich don’t worry about how to pay for college. I myself am luckier than many, but I know rich, and at 300k I am much closer to the poorest than to the wealthy. The rich in this country are loathsome on a whole.

Wait… at 250k you’re agreeing they’re middle class but at 300k you “know you’re rich”. So is the cut off 275k? Someone explain.

No one is rich until they have accumulated at least 10M. The law partner making $2M isn't rich if they only have a few million saved. I do my 40yr old SIL's taxes and she makes 900k and has about 200k to her name. She's more or less broke and I laugh about it every year because she thinks she's "rich". I am years younger than her make not too far off from her, have accumulated enough money for two lives, but she thinks we are probably so behind her.

Agree $10M is a good cut off point for transitioning into rich. at $10M you can have a 4% draw giving you a 400k HHI (taxed at capital gains!) without working, plus you have access to all that capital if you want to, which is different from a working 400k HHI whose main capital is 2M in retirement savings plus 500k in equity. And of course it goes up greatly from there.

If your net worth is below $10M you're just in the upper parts of the upper middle classes.

Not perfect but as good a rule of thumb as any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing new here. Another UMC poster with a huge sense of entitlement and no clue how most people live. We make $400k and have two kids. We are not wanting anything. Unless you have medical or special needs, you are either entitled or poor at money management or both.

So you admit that you're UMC at 400k, and not rich? Glad you acknowledged it.

Yes, it's great being UMC and having rainy day funds and being able to afford a lot more than someone who plods through life at 50k, but I'm not deluding myself that I'm rich either. I'm comfortable.

Rich is something else different. Financially and emotionally as well. If I lost my job tomorrow, things would become tight even with our savings and investments because we'd not want to blow through it, and I'd always be worried until I found a new job. A rich person never has to worry about money, or even working in the first place. I know people in that position. They live and experience life in a very different way from a working stiff like me.

It's why F Scott Fitzgerald said the rich are different from you and me. Not sure why some people struggle with this. Pretending you're rich because you live in a decent suburb with a six figure income is a laughable concept, and saying you're rich because you have good friends is changing the topic altogether and is something only poorer people say.

DP here. Not exactly. We live far enough beneath our means that we’ve amassed huge savings and could live several years with no job or indefinitely with jobs with lower incomes.

You can be rich two ways - by acquiring much or by desiring little. Life isn’t lacking for us the way it seems to be for you.

Nonsense. You're changing the meaning of rich from what is commonly accepted. And blaming me! And accusing me of having a "lacking life"! And guess what, I also can live without working for a few years too.

But....

Are you able to charter a private jet and take a group of friends on a fancy safari in Africa? No.

Are you able to drop 10 million for a waterfront house in Nantucket? No.

Are you sleeping at night with the knowledge that your children and even grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives if they don't want to? No.

That's rich. It's a very different world and way of living. Having comfortable retirement savings doesn't make you rich. You're fulfilled. But fulfilled isn't rich. A poor person can still be fulfilled through close family and friends, but it has nothing to do with being rich. It's clear you have no idea who the rich are.

I feel sorry for you.

Why? What exactly are you struggling with? Your failure to understand what rich means? From what I can tell, according to some posters on this thread, anyone with a bit of money in the bank is rich, irregardless of whether it's 50k in savings or 50 million or 5 billion?

You are insufferable. Your definition of “rich” excluding all people who can’t afford a 10M second home in Nantucket is beyond bonkers. And it’s incredibly striver-ish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing new here. Another UMC poster with a huge sense of entitlement and no clue how most people live. We make $400k and have two kids. We are not wanting anything. Unless you have medical or special needs, you are either entitled or poor at money management or both.

So you admit that you're UMC at 400k, and not rich? Glad you acknowledged it.

Yes, it's great being UMC and having rainy day funds and being able to afford a lot more than someone who plods through life at 50k, but I'm not deluding myself that I'm rich either. I'm comfortable.

Rich is something else different. Financially and emotionally as well. If I lost my job tomorrow, things would become tight even with our savings and investments because we'd not want to blow through it, and I'd always be worried until I found a new job. A rich person never has to worry about money, or even working in the first place. I know people in that position. They live and experience life in a very different way from a working stiff like me.

It's why F Scott Fitzgerald said the rich are different from you and me. Not sure why some people struggle with this. Pretending you're rich because you live in a decent suburb with a six figure income is a laughable concept, and saying you're rich because you have good friends is changing the topic altogether and is something only poorer people say.

DP here. Not exactly. We live far enough beneath our means that we’ve amassed huge savings and could live several years with no job or indefinitely with jobs with lower incomes.

You can be rich two ways - by acquiring much or by desiring little. Life isn’t lacking for us the way it seems to be for you.

Nonsense. You're changing the meaning of rich from what is commonly accepted. And blaming me! And accusing me of having a "lacking life"! And guess what, I also can live without working for a few years too.

But....

Are you able to charter a private jet and take a group of friends on a fancy safari in Africa? No.

Are you able to drop 10 million for a waterfront house in Nantucket? No.

Are you sleeping at night with the knowledge that your children and even grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives if they don't want to? No.

That's rich. It's a very different world and way of living. Having comfortable retirement savings doesn't make you rich. You're fulfilled. But fulfilled isn't rich. A poor person can still be fulfilled through close family and friends, but it has nothing to do with being rich. It's clear you have no idea who the rich are.

I feel sorry for you.

Why? What exactly are you struggling with? Your failure to understand what rich means? From what I can tell, according to some posters on this thread, anyone with a bit of money in the bank is rich, irregardless of whether it's 50k in savings or 50 million or 5 billion?

Who made you the arbiter of rich? No one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

It’s true. I think what’s happening is people are “counting their blessings” and thinking how truly advantaged they are compared to the poorest in our country.

Which is contentious to do, and of course compared to the average HHI (which is shockingly low) you are indeed well-off. But rich? Well. Like PP said, rich don’t worry about how to pay for college. I myself am luckier than many, but I know rich, and at 300k I am much closer to the poorest than to the wealthy. The rich in this country are loathsome on a whole.

Wait… at 250k you’re agreeing they’re middle class but at 300k you “know you’re rich”. So is the cut off 275k? Someone explain.

No one is rich until they have accumulated at least 10M. The law partner making $2M isn't rich if they only have a few million saved. I do my 40yr old SIL's taxes and she makes 900k and has about 200k to her name. She's more or less broke and I laugh about it every year because she thinks she's "rich". I am years younger than her make not too far off from her, have accumulated enough money for two lives, but she thinks we are probably so behind her.

Agree $10M is a good cut off point for transitioning into rich. at $10M you can have a 4% draw giving you a 400k HHI (taxed at capital gains!) without working, plus you have access to all that capital if you want to, which is different from a working 400k HHI whose main capital is 2M in retirement savings plus 500k in equity. And of course it goes up greatly from there.

If your net worth is below $10M you're just in the upper parts of the upper middle classes.

Not perfect but as good a rule of thumb as any.

LOL. Middle actually has meaning. It doesn’t mean somewhere in the middle of the top 1%

You all are bafoons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get what OP is saying. We make more than OP and have a nice net worth. We live in an expensive house that carries a high property tax burden. Affording our house is no problem, but I acknowledge that a $25K tax bill on the house every year is not insignificant. We own our cars outright and don't carry debt. Technically we are in the top 1% of earners, but we consider ourselves 'working rich', meaning if the gravy train comes to a halt tomorrow we would be pressed to make some lifestyle decisions if the cashflow changes. My family enjoys life, but we know money is not to be taken for granted. Yes, we have savings, retirement accounts, college funded, as well as taking very nice vacations, we can eat out whenever we want, buy any groceries we want, attend any ticketed events/activities we want, wear any clothes we want, but with inflation and rising costs, I stop and ask if these things are worth the inflated costs. $100 today isn't what it was 5 or 10 years ago. DMV is not a cheap area.

The taxes on your big fancy house doesn’t exclude you from being rich. Buy a smaller house with a lower tax burden if you can’t afford it. Seems like money management 101

Your mindset shrieks to the whole world you are a poormo. You don't understand what wealth really is. Babbling about money management 101 is meaningless when yur argument equally applies to someone making 50k a year and telling them to live on a budget. Hint, the rich really don't need to have budgets.

[Anonymous]

Your house and cars are too expensive and you're paying for private school. If you can't feel rich at that HHI those are most likely your issues.

Fix those and you'll live like a king.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get what OP is saying. We make more than OP and have a nice net worth. We live in an expensive house that carries a high property tax burden. Affording our house is no problem, but I acknowledge that a $25K tax bill on the house every year is not insignificant. We own our cars outright and don't carry debt. Technically we are in the top 1% of earners, but we consider ourselves 'working rich', meaning if the gravy train comes to a halt tomorrow we would be pressed to make some lifestyle decisions if the cashflow changes. My family enjoys life, but we know money is not to be taken for granted. Yes, we have savings, retirement accounts, college funded, as well as taking very nice vacations, we can eat out whenever we want, buy any groceries we want, attend any ticketed events/activities we want, wear any clothes we want, but with inflation and rising costs, I stop and ask if these things are worth the inflated costs. $100 today isn't what it was 5 or 10 years ago. DMV is not a cheap area.

The taxes on your big fancy house doesn’t exclude you from being rich. Buy a smaller house with a lower tax burden if you can’t afford it. Seems like money management 101

Your mindset shrieks to the whole world you are a poormo. You don't understand what wealth really is. Babbling about money management 101 is meaningless when yur argument equally applies to someone making 50k a year and telling them to live on a budget. Hint, the rich really don't need to have budgets.

More bs striving. How old are you?

The concept that the rich don’t have budgets and somehow aspiring to be that rich because that really means something is possibly the most nouveau riche mindset presented on this absurd thread.

You can be rich and spend your money unwisely and then you’re not rich anymore.