University Rankings in 1925:Not much has changed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest change is Wisconsin. They really dropped off from their high ranking.

Wisconsin went from #5 to #35. 12 other public schools have since passed it up. I had no idea that Wisconsin dropped that much. Thanks to the OP for bring this to my attention. Shows how Wisconsin hasn’t kept pace with other top publics.

UVA is next. They are dropping more and more every year.

What are you talking about? They went from 25 to 24 this year.

UVA is in a four-way tie, and it is arguably the worst of them. I won't be surprised if UVA falls into the T30 range this year.

Would be lucky to remain T40 given how weak they are in STEM and CS

And to be clear, by "weak," we mean they are excellent. We're talking about the top universities in the country here.

Sure, but most kids who get into UVA will have better options for STEM and CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest change is Wisconsin. They really dropped off from their high ranking.

Wisconsin went from #5 to #35. 12 other public schools have since passed it up. I had no idea that Wisconsin dropped that much. Thanks to the OP for bring this to my attention. Shows how Wisconsin hasn’t kept pace with other top publics.

UVA is next. They are dropping more and more every year.

What are you talking about? They went from 25 to 24 this year.

UVA is in a four-way tie, and it is arguably the worst of them. I won't be surprised if UVA falls into the T30 range this year.

Would be lucky to remain T40 given how weak they are in STEM and CS

And to be clear, by "weak," we mean they are excellent. We're talking about the top universities in the country here.

Sure, but most kids who get into UVA will have better options for STEM and CS.

How do some of you get through life with your ridiculous attitudes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest change is Wisconsin. They really dropped off from their high ranking.

Wisconsin went from #5 to #35. 12 other public schools have since passed it up. I had no idea that Wisconsin dropped that much. Thanks to the OP for bring this to my attention. Shows how Wisconsin hasn’t kept pace with other top publics.

UVA is next. They are dropping more and more every year.

What are you talking about? They went from 25 to 24 this year.

UVA is in a four-way tie, and it is arguably the worst of them. I won't be surprised if UVA falls into the T30 range this year.

🙄 this is nonsense. You write as if you have some objective, empirical insight into how “good” colleges are. You don’t. Rankings are stupid. Especially pretending to distinguish between 24 and 27. So ridiculous. I’m not saying those colleges are the same. They aren’t. But, as in everything else, they have their own positives and negatives, and one person’s positive is another’s negative. Hence it’s folly to even attempt. And asinine for us to put any stock in it.

So many factors are more important than a colleges "rank" when it comes to whether it is a good fit or whether you will be happy there and get a good education.

Yes, within reason. Being ranked last might mean something.

Rank is important because it attracts higher quality students, which in turn positions the school better. The more UVA falls, the fewer high quality students will apply, instead opting to go elsewhere. School selectivity falls, and UVA becomes just another public. You cannot deny that the school is not on a downward spiral. It is not keeping up with the times and other publics will overtake it. It's fallen from the top public to barely hanging on to 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest change is Wisconsin. They really dropped off from their high ranking.

Wisconsin went from #5 to #35. 12 other public schools have since passed it up. I had no idea that Wisconsin dropped that much. Thanks to the OP for bring this to my attention. Shows how Wisconsin hasn’t kept pace with other top publics.

UVA is next. They are dropping more and more every year.

What are you talking about? They went from 25 to 24 this year.

UVA is in a four-way tie, and it is arguably the worst of them. I won't be surprised if UVA falls into the T30 range this year.

Would be lucky to remain T40 given how weak they are in STEM and CS

And to be clear, by "weak," we mean they are excellent. We're talking about the top universities in the country here.

Sure, but most kids who get into UVA will have better options for STEM and CS.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering DCUM didn't exist in 1925 and people weren't obsessed with arbitrary magazine rankings like they are now, I doubt that Wisco or even UMich were actually considered more prestigious than schools like UPenn, Dartmouth, Duke, etc.

Certainly not Wisconsin! Wisconsin booster at it again. Living in the past.

Don’t get this especial bashing of Wisconsin, and this is not the only time I’ve seen this happen on this forum. Nobody is saying Wisconsin is super prestigious. But the idea that Wisconsin~=Michigan academically is pretty non controversial among academics. What is it which makes east coasters tolerate Michigan, yet when Wisconsin shows (with the same department ranks) it’s a calamity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seriously need to get a greater purpose in life than obsessing about college rankings.

It is the OP. The Wisconsin booster constantly wants to remind everyone how great Wisconsin was last century.

Public universities really were that great. The decline of public universities is the real story here.

Still see Berkeley and Michigan highly ranked. UCLA has now joined the group.

Currently there are no publics in top 10. The top 3 publics: UCLA and Berkeley are tied at #15 and Michigan is at #21.

That’s true. However if you look at PA scores, Berkeley is still top ten and Michigan is top 15. The original rankings at USNWR were based off PA scores. So these two universities haven’t really declined, the metrics of rankings just changed.

It's important to note that PA are specifically a response to undergraduate peer reputation score. While there is correlation, we have no idea what other institutions consider to be the premier institutions overall. One strong option is to look at PHD placement rates. Another way to rank universities is going off of Brian Leiter's reports, who has a strong connection to most academics in the country (and a Michigan alumnus for the Michigan boosters out there). Both put Wisconsin and Michigan at the same level.

Of course every other international ranking has Michigan significantly rated higher than Wisconsin. Of course you never quote those.

Hang a moment, I’ve been around long enough to remember that the international rankings had Wisconsin leading until 2012. In fact if you look at ARWU, CRWU UW Madison is actually outranking Michigan globally. From 1980-2012, UW Madison outranked Michigan in Research and Development significantly.

So what happened? Well, I like the walker budget cuts and change to tenure had an effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seriously need to get a greater purpose in life than obsessing about college rankings.

It is the OP. The Wisconsin booster constantly wants to remind everyone how great Wisconsin was last century.

Public universities really were that great. The decline of public universities is the real story here.

Still see Berkeley and Michigan highly ranked. UCLA has now joined the group.

Currently there are no publics in top 10. The top 3 publics: UCLA and Berkeley are tied at #15 and Michigan is at #21.

That’s true. However if you look at PA scores, Berkeley is still top ten and Michigan is top 15. The original rankings at USNWR were based off PA scores. So these two universities haven’t really declined, the metrics of rankings just changed.

It's important to note that PA are specifically a response to undergraduate peer reputation score. While there is correlation, we have no idea what other institutions consider to be the premier institutions overall. One strong option is to look at PHD placement rates. Another way to rank universities is going off of Brian Leiter's reports, who has a strong connection to most academics in the country (and a Michigan alumnus for the Michigan boosters out there). Both put Wisconsin and Michigan at the same level.

Of course every other international ranking has Michigan significantly rated higher than Wisconsin. Of course you never quote those.

Hang a moment, I’ve been around long enough to remember that the international rankings had Wisconsin leading until 2012. In fact if you look at ARWU, CRWU UW Madison is actually outranking Michigan globally. From 1980-2012, UW Madison outranked Michigan in Research and Development significantly.

So what happened? Well, I like the walker budget cuts and change to tenure had an effect.

Correction I meant in 2012 UW Madison was outranking Michigan by the ARWU and the CRWU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you seriously need to get a greater purpose in life than obsessing about college rankings.

It is the OP. The Wisconsin booster constantly wants to remind everyone how great Wisconsin was last century.

Public universities really were that great. The decline of public universities is the real story here.

Still see Berkeley and Michigan highly ranked. UCLA has now joined the group.

Currently there are no publics in top 10. The top 3 publics: UCLA and Berkeley are tied at #15 and Michigan is at #21.

That’s true. However if you look at PA scores, Berkeley is still top ten and Michigan is top 15. The original rankings at USNWR were based off PA scores. So these two universities haven’t really declined, the metrics of rankings just changed.

It's important to note that PA are specifically a response to undergraduate peer reputation score. While there is correlation, we have no idea what other institutions consider to be the premier institutions overall. One strong option is to look at PHD placement rates. Another way to rank universities is going off of Brian Leiter's reports, who has a strong connection to most academics in the country (and a Michigan alumnus for the Michigan boosters out there). Both put Wisconsin and Michigan at the same level.

Of course every other international ranking has Michigan significantly rated higher than Wisconsin. Of course you never quote those.

Hang a moment, I’ve been around long enough to remember that the international rankings had Wisconsin leading until 2012. In fact if you look at ARWU, CRWU UW Madison is actually outranking Michigan globally. From 1980-2012, UW Madison outranked Michigan in Research and Development significantly.

So what happened? Well, I like the walker budget cuts and change to tenure had an effect.

Correction I meant in 2012 UW Madison was outranking Michigan by the ARWU and the CRWU.

[Anonymous]

Dozen years ago. Wisco has fallen. Next..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering DCUM didn't exist in 1925 and people weren't obsessed with arbitrary magazine rankings like they are now, I doubt that Wisco or even UMich were actually considered more prestigious than schools like UPenn, Dartmouth, Duke, etc.

Certainly not Wisconsin! Wisconsin booster at it again. Living in the past.

Don’t get this especial bashing of Wisconsin, and this is not the only time I’ve seen this happen on this forum. Nobody is saying Wisconsin is super prestigious. But the idea that Wisconsin~=Michigan academically is pretty non controversial among academics. What is it which makes east coasters tolerate Michigan, yet when Wisconsin shows (with the same department ranks) it’s a calamity.

Michigan easily bests Wisconsin in Business, Engineering, Law, Medicine, and others. They are comparable in Liberal Arts disciplines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering DCUM didn't exist in 1925 and people weren't obsessed with arbitrary magazine rankings like they are now, I doubt that Wisco or even UMich were actually considered more prestigious than schools like UPenn, Dartmouth, Duke, etc.

Certainly not Wisconsin! Wisconsin booster at it again. Living in the past.

Don’t get this especial bashing of Wisconsin, and this is not the only time I’ve seen this happen on this forum. Nobody is saying Wisconsin is super prestigious. But the idea that Wisconsin~=Michigan academically is pretty non controversial among academics. What is it which makes east coasters tolerate Michigan, yet when Wisconsin shows (with the same department ranks) it’s a calamity.

Michigan easily bests Wisconsin in Business, Engineering, Law, Medicine, and others. They are comparable in Liberal Arts disciplines.

So chemistry is liberal arts now? No clue what you’re talking about with regards to medicine/business/engineering. Yes Michigan is ranked higher, but both are good. With engineering and medicine, the idea that Michigan “easily” beats them is about as absurd as the idea that the earth is flat.

Yes Wisco law school sucks. It’s probably impossible for it to be good because it is not in a major metro area. Notice how all the T14s are located in a major metro area.

[Anonymous]

Yes, chemistry is can be considered part of liberal arts.

“In the social sciences, majors in political science, economics, psychology, sociology, and anthropology would qualify as liberal arts degrees. And in the natural sciences, a liberal arts degree could be a major in biology, mathematics, chemistry, environmental science, or physics.”

I guess the earth is flat since:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate
Michigan #5
Wisconsin #17

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings

Michigan #7
Wisconsin #?


https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business

Michigan #4
Wisconsin #?

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/mba-rankings

Michigan #12
Wisconsin #43

Medicine

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings

Michigan #13
Wisconsin #35

And just for laughs…..

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings?_sort=my_rankings-asc

Michigan #9
Wisconsin #36

I never said Wisconsin wasn’t good. I just said Michigan is easily better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering DCUM didn't exist in 1925 and people weren't obsessed with arbitrary magazine rankings like they are now, I doubt that Wisco or even UMich were actually considered more prestigious than schools like UPenn, Dartmouth, Duke, etc.

Certainly not Wisconsin! Wisconsin booster at it again. Living in the past.

Don’t get this especial bashing of Wisconsin, and this is not the only time I’ve seen this happen on this forum. Nobody is saying Wisconsin is super prestigious. But the idea that Wisconsin~=Michigan academically is pretty non controversial among academics. What is it which makes east coasters tolerate Michigan, yet when Wisconsin shows (with the same department ranks) it’s a calamity.

It's because of the NYCers who go to Michigan. They've been there, so they trust it.

"Wisco" needs to go to more Long Island college fairs. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, chemistry is can be considered part of liberal arts.

“In the social sciences, majors in political science, economics, psychology, sociology, and anthropology would qualify as liberal arts degrees. And in the natural sciences, a liberal arts degree could be a major in biology, mathematics, chemistry, environmental science, or physics.”

I guess the earth is flat since:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate
Michigan #5
Wisconsin #17

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings

Michigan #7
Wisconsin #?


https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business

Michigan #4
Wisconsin #?

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/mba-rankings

Michigan #12
Wisconsin #43

Medicine

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings

Michigan #13
Wisconsin #35

And just for laughs…..

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings?_sort=my_rankings-asc

Michigan #9
Wisconsin #36

I never said Wisconsin wasn’t good. I just said Michigan is easily better.

I’ve been around long enough to remember that the widest I’ve ever seen them. In fact that wasn’t so long ago, in 2020 Public University Honors had Michigan and Wisconsin as roughly the same. Michigan, as you’ve rubbed in, has better professional schools. Wisconsin historically has had a dominant college of Letters and Science.

In fact, I’d go as far as to say that, regardless of what Michigan ranks in the college of letters of science, you can actually dismisses those rankings so long as you cannot read off any notable figure in such departments. With such an idea, you can totally dismiss Michigan’s medicine, engineering, and their entire college of Letters and Science: they’ve been totally insignificant and have produced no notable figures.

Wisconsin, on the other hand, has isolated stem cells, invented the transistor, defined the frontier thesis, introduced the first or second PHDs in history, geology, engineering, and computer science. Wisco simply went through a whole lot of crap with their budget cuts in the last decade. That doesn’t make Michigan a “better” school of the sudden. When examining the whole historical record, only Wisconsin and UChicago have been the defining institutions of the Midwest.

[Anonymous]

Once again the booster repeats his same old mantra ad nauseum. Nobody, including you, thinks these two schools are at the same level anymore academically. For overall prestige, Michigan easily bests Wisconsin. OOS Students admitted to both overwhelmingly chose Michigan. Frankly, it isn’t even close. I know how that bothers you, but that’s just the way it is. You should be proud that a school located in a state of only 5 million overachieved for so many years, as you constantly remind everyone here. That’s all in the past now. It’s over.