Middle school dilemma: Eliot-Hine/Stuart Hobson/Jefferson

[Anonymous]

I don't see the point of dreaming like PP above is doing. Fact is, DCPS has eliminated the Walls test and a standardized test requirement for admission to Walls, with no plans to bring back either, and you're thinking in terms of adding a test a new program with test prep materials provided? No way is this happening in DC, not under Bowser and when is she out the door? Six years hence? Dream on.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We are in the Cluster and I would choose Stuart Hobson. LT buy-in seems real. I have heard of more Maury parents choosing elsewhere which isn't good for EH. I would also prefer the SH location in terms of safety.

I don’t know anyone at Maury who lotteried for the Latins or BASIS, matched, and is choosing EH.

Right, I assume if you lottery for a school and match, you would go bc you lotteried there. Our family didn't lottery, and others we know didn't lottery so we ended up at our feeder DCPS middle school. And I am not naive and know that some of the other families at their IB MS did try lottery but didn't get in, but I always assumed if somebody tried lottery and matched, the odds are they'd go wherever they felt was the right fit that they tried lotterying for.

I know multiple LT students who lotteried into BASIS and turned it down over the last few years, including 1 who is doing so this year and 1 still deciding. Latin? No. But BASIS? Definitely folks lottery, match and then decide it's not for them. One kid came back mid-year two years ago and she is now a happy 7th grader at SH.

+1. BASIS is a unique school, and many kids don't fit it. As a BASIS parent, I'm really happy when parents realize that their kid doesn't fit the model and turn down the spot, so that kids who really do fit it but are stuck on the waitlist can take the spot.

Agree. Please give up your BASIS spot if you don’t have an academically advanced and motivated kid. Your child won’t be happy and will likely drop out.

[Anonymous]

What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! It would keep more of the DCPS elementary students on the eastern side of the city who now leave for Latin, Basis, and private in the neighborhood DCPS system.

I missed you! You've been quiet lately. Glad to have you back, Librarian. Although I do so wish you'd get some new material.

BASIS was a bad ft for your kid. I'm guessing your kid has moved on. If only you could too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

I hate the idea of adding another transition by separating 6th grade, but love the idea of dedicating one of the schools to an academically selective school. Would be a real game changer for families on the Hill.

Then there would be all the stress and game playing to get a seat at the academically selective school, shutting out those who don't know how to play the game.

Can you imagine the sh*t show the "non-selective school would be"? DC will never allow a test in 6th grade. Much as I would like to see one, I agree with them. 4th and 5th grades in DC are at best "fine". Parents (like me) who have means would supplement the heck out of ES if it meant access to a test in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

Caveat emptor, lady. The PP may be rude, but it's good advice. If your kid is not academically inclined and motivated, they are going to wash out of BASIS and if you think your kid isn't going to notice that they're washing out, I have news for you: BASIS makes it very clear to all the students who is doing well and who is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

On a site filled with inane takes, you win! Did you really just object to someone posting unsolicited advice on a public forum on which people anonymously offer opinions on a variety of topics? Are you not aware that in that very post you went ahead and offered unsolicited advice to PPP?

Or, was this parody? If so, well done. No notes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see the point of dreaming like PP above is doing. Fact is, DCPS has eliminated the Walls test and a standardized test requirement for admission to Walls, with no plans to bring back either, and you're thinking in terms of adding a test a new program with test prep materials provided? No way is this happening in DC, not under Bowser and when is she out the door? Six years hence? Dream on.

[phone] They won't allow HS admissions based on a test for fear it violates "equity". You thin they are going to allow it for 6th???!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

Let's say your kid is choosing between 2 basketball camps. Your kid enjoys the game and knows the rules, but they are 4 feet 6 inches tall and 20 pounds overweight. They don't have much god given ability and they don't really want to work hard or have a work ethic. What they want is to be able to play some rec ball and get playing time. Choice A is a camp for 4 and 5 star recruits and kids who have a reasonable trajectory to playing D1 or D2 college ball on scholarship. Choice B is a rec camp where no one is playing college ball and everyone is guaranteed playing time. Choice B also has more drills and development time to improve core skills.

Would it be "shaming" your kid to suggest that Choice B is a much better fit? Or would it be an acknowledgement of the reality of the kid's abilities, interests and circumstances and in the best interest of your kid?

The irony of your reply is that it illustrates you and your kid are probably NOT a good fit for BASIS. It is a brutal environment that publicly acknowledges academic successes and tells kids who are not succeeding to "do better". It does high stakes testing and holds kids back if they don't perform. It is the antithesis of "everyone gets a trophy". When you attend your first awards ceremony and your kid who didn't get As and isn't top 15 or 5% has to sit there for an hour and watch classmates be called up and publicly lauded, you will be right back complaining that BASIS is "shaming your kid". If only someone would have told you what BASIS was like before you enrolled...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see the point of dreaming like PP above is doing. Fact is, DCPS has eliminated the Walls test and a standardized test requirement for admission to Walls, with no plans to bring back either, and you're thinking in terms of adding a test a new program with test prep materials provided? No way is this happening in DC, not under Bowser and when is she out the door? Six years hence? Dream on.

[phone] They won't allow HS admissions based on a test for fear it violates "equity". You thin they are going to allow it for 6th???!!!!

I don’t get this attitude that the people of DC have nothing they can do but gnash their teeth and wring their hands. DCPS and the DC government belong to you. You could demand better. Obviously people haven’t, so maybe the real barrier to gifted programs etc. is that DC families don’t really want them when it comes down to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

On a site filled with inane takes, you win! Did you really just object to someone posting unsolicited advice on a public forum on which people anonymously offer opinions on a variety of topics? Are you not aware that in that very post you went ahead and offered unsolicited advice to PPP?

Or, was this parody? If so, well done. No notes.

I hope that was parody. Some people are clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see the point of dreaming like PP above is doing. Fact is, DCPS has eliminated the Walls test and a standardized test requirement for admission to Walls, with no plans to bring back either, and you're thinking in terms of adding a test a new program with test prep materials provided? No way is this happening in DC, not under Bowser and when is she out the door? Six years hence? Dream on.

[phone] They won't allow HS admissions based on a test for fear it violates "equity". You thin they are going to allow it for 6th???!!!!

I don’t get this attitude that the people of DC have nothing they can do but gnash their teeth and wring their hands. DCPS and the DC government belong to you. You could demand better. Obviously people haven’t, so maybe the real barrier to gifted programs etc. is that DC families don’t really want them when it comes down to it.

No they don't. Absolutely not. How long have you lived in DC, PP above? We've been here more than 30 years, with kids in DCPS for the last 9.

The truth is that the Dem party machine runs DC, and that Eleanor Norton Holmes and her party ensure that we'll never get a voting Rep in Congress (Dem leaders would much rather whine about not getting 2 Senators than take the 1 Rep DC could have had in the 90s). Why is Charles Allen probably facing a recall vote in the fall? It's not because he'll go down in a special election: it's a protest vote. The recall is born of a situation in which a great many DC voters are alienated by the absurdly top-down political status quo in this city. The system all but ensures that incumbents are untouchable, at least if they're not criminals, and ends itself all too well to backroom deals generate the most important decisions the city council makes, particularly on education issues. The machine picked Bowser and she essentially runs unopposed. Voters have little say in what happens in this city, very little indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

Caveat emptor, lady. The PP may be rude, but it's good advice. If your kid is not academically inclined and motivated, they are going to wash out of BASIS and if you think your kid isn't going to notice that they're washing out, I have news for you: BASIS makes it very clear to all the students who is doing well and who is not.

Academically inclined? Hardly a high hurdle to clear for most kids from UMC families EotP (the type who mob BASIS). My not so brilliant or industrious kid wasn't challenged at BASIS in 5th grade, maybe a bit in 6th (but certainly not for English). I'd kill for a true GT program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see the point of dreaming like PP above is doing. Fact is, DCPS has eliminated the Walls test and a standardized test requirement for admission to Walls, with no plans to bring back either, and you're thinking in terms of adding a test a new program with test prep materials provided? No way is this happening in DC, not under Bowser and when is she out the door? Six years hence? Dream on.

[phone] They won't allow HS admissions based on a test for fear it violates "equity". You thin they are going to allow it for 6th???!!!!

I don’t get this attitude that the people of DC have nothing they can do but gnash their teeth and wring their hands. DCPS and the DC government belong to you. You could demand better. Obviously people haven’t, so maybe the real barrier to gifted programs etc. is that DC families don’t really want them when it comes down to it.

I've been in DC long enough to know that many of my priorities are not shared by the majority of voters, and therefore do not typically capture the interest of the mayor or council. Sometimes you can eke out incremental change while they're otherwise preoccupied and every so often the national tides shift in such a way that they're open to trying something different, but generally speaking they're not going to take me, an UMC white lady in a majority Black ward, very seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you think that shaming parents who don't have "academically advanced and motivated" kids to cease and desist from taking a BASIS 5th grade spot, perhaps compelling them to move to the burbs for lack of a viable alternative, will work? Fact is, BASIS is geared to the average to above average student willing to put the work in to cope with the curriculum. It's not a GT program by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, some BASIS 5th grade families are just looking for a viable place-holder before moving on to a more typical middle school, perhaps out of DC. That's their prerogative of course. Why not focus on what's likely to make your own kid happy rather than offering us all unsolicited advice?

Caveat emptor, lady. The PP may be rude, but it's good advice. If your kid is not academically inclined and motivated, they are going to wash out of BASIS and if you think your kid isn't going to notice that they're washing out, I have news for you: BASIS makes it very clear to all the students who is doing well and who is not.

Academically inclined? Hardly a high hurdle to clear for most kids from UMC families EotP (the type who mob BASIS). My not so brilliant or industrious kid wasn't challenged at BASIS in 5th grade, maybe a bit in 6th (but certainly not for English). I'd kill for a true GT program.

LOL, ok.