Middle school dilemma: Eliot-Hine/Stuart Hobson/Jefferson

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

[Anonymous]

Yes! It would keep more of the DCPS elementary students on the eastern side of the city who now leave for Latin, Basis, and private in the neighborhood DCPS system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in the Cluster and I would choose Stuart Hobson. LT buy-in seems real. I have heard of more Maury parents choosing elsewhere which isn't good for EH. I would also prefer the SH location in terms of safety.

I don’t know anyone at Maury who lotteried for the Latins or BASIS, matched, and is choosing EH.

Right, I assume if you lottery for a school and match, you would go bc you lotteried there. Our family didn't lottery, and others we know didn't lottery so we ended up at our feeder DCPS middle school. And I am not naive and know that some of the other families at their IB MS did try lottery but didn't get in, but I always assumed if somebody tried lottery and matched, the odds are they'd go wherever they felt was the right fit that they tried lotterying for.

I know multiple LT students who lotteried into BASIS and turned it down over the last few years, including 1 who is doing so this year and 1 still deciding. Latin? No. But BASIS? Definitely folks lottery, match and then decide it's not for them. One kid came back mid-year two years ago and she is now a happy 7th grader at SH.

+1. BASIS is a unique school, and many kids don't fit it. As a BASIS parent, I'm really happy when parents realize that their kid doesn't fit the model and turn down the spot, so that kids who really do fit it but are stuck on the waitlist can take the spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

As much as I love EH being small, expanding it with a special program is a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

This idea was visited years ago. DME is against it because they would rather have all three middle schools slowly rise as more and more families are shut out of charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

This idea was visited years ago. DME is against it because they would rather have all three middle schools slowly rise as more and more families are shut out of charters.

Link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in the Cluster and I would choose Stuart Hobson. LT buy-in seems real. I have heard of more Maury parents choosing elsewhere which isn't good for EH. I would also prefer the SH location in terms of safety.

I don’t know anyone at Maury who lotteried for the Latins or BASIS, matched, and is choosing EH.

Right, I assume if you lottery for a school and match, you would go bc you lotteried there. Our family didn't lottery, and others we know didn't lottery so we ended up at our feeder DCPS middle school. And I am not naive and know that some of the other families at their IB MS did try lottery but didn't get in, but I always assumed if somebody tried lottery and matched, the odds are they'd go wherever they felt was the right fit that they tried lotterying for.

I know multiple LT students who lotteried into BASIS and turned it down over the last few years, including 1 who is doing so this year and 1 still deciding. Latin? No. But BASIS? Definitely folks lottery, match and then decide it's not for them. One kid came back mid-year two years ago and she is now a happy 7th grader at SH.

Stuart-Hobson "took back" at least 4, maybe five, BASIS students this year.
+1. BASIS is a unique school, and many kids don't fit it. As a BASIS parent, I'm really happy when parents realize that their kid doesn't fit the model and turn down the spot, so that kids who really do fit it but are stuck on the waitlist can take the spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in the Cluster and I would choose Stuart Hobson. LT buy-in seems real. I have heard of more Maury parents choosing elsewhere which isn't good for EH. I would also prefer the SH location in terms of safety.

I don’t know anyone at Maury who lotteried for the Latins or BASIS, matched, and is choosing EH.

Right, I assume if you lottery for a school and match, you would go bc you lotteried there. Our family didn't lottery, and others we know didn't lottery so we ended up at our feeder DCPS middle school. And I am not naive and know that some of the other families at their IB MS did try lottery but didn't get in, but I always assumed if somebody tried lottery and matched, the odds are they'd go wherever they felt was the right fit that they tried lotterying for.

I know multiple LT students who lotteried into BASIS and turned it down over the last few years, including 1 who is doing so this year and 1 still deciding. Latin? No. But BASIS? Definitely folks lottery, match and then decide it's not for them. One kid came back mid-year two years ago and she is now a happy 7th grader at SH.

+1. BASIS is a unique school, and many kids don't fit it. As a BASIS parent, I'm really happy when parents realize that their kid doesn't fit the model and turn down the spot, so that kids who really do fit it but are stuck on the waitlist can take the spot.

Which school without outdoor space, a gym, a stage, a media center/library, a cafeteria with windows and a reasonably stable teaching force is a truly good fit for any middle school kid? Such BS. We've heard this so many times. BASIS is OK for the math inclined, not more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a 7th grader at Jefferson and am happy to answer any questions. My kid is really happy and has been very successful so far. In Algebra, joined lots of clubs, made a few of the sports teams. Gets themselves to school and home independently on the Circulator daily, along with friends from all of the feeder schools. We really like the small school size (about 100 less students than SH) and the admin has been very responsive. The principal is really passionate and the LSAT this year focused on adding positions to further support accellerated students in all subjects.

Yes, and for every UMC kid like yours who tries Jefferson, one leaves after 6th grade, if they make it that far. We know two 6th graders, Brent grads, who only made it as far as winter break. Fact is, there's still not much in the way of definite honors classes at Jefferson. We've heard the "further support for accelerated students" from "responsive" admins (try cagey) jazz before. All the passion from the principal in the world won't solve the problem that Jefferson has lost ground with Brent families in the last five or six years. OK, Jefferson picked up a few Van Ness grads but the reality is that almost all the in-boundary momentum is with SH and Eliot-Hine here in 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

I hate the idea of adding another transition by separating 6th grade, but love the idea of dedicating one of the schools to an academically selective school. Would be a real game changer for families on the Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 7th grader at Jefferson and am happy to answer any questions. My kid is really happy and has been very successful so far. In Algebra, joined lots of clubs, made a few of the sports teams. Gets themselves to school and home independently on the Circulator daily, along with friends from all of the feeder schools. We really like the small school size (about 100 less students than SH) and the admin has been very responsive. The principal is really passionate and the LSAT this year focused on adding positions to further support accelerated students in all subjects.

Yes, and for every UMC kid like yours who tries Jefferson, one leaves after 6th grade, if they make it that far. We know two 6th graders, Brent grads, who only made it as far as winter break. Fact is, there's still not much in the way of definite honors classes at Jefferson. We've heard the "further support for accelerated students" from "responsive" admins (try cagey) jazz before. All the passion from the principal in the world won't solve the problem that Jefferson has lost ground with Brent families in the last five or six years. OK, Jefferson picked up a few Van Ness grads but the reality is that almost all the in-boundary momentum is with SH and Eliot-Hine here in 2024.

It doesn't sound like the Jefferson parent was advocating to pick their school over others. They were just providing a resource where they were happy to answer questions. Sounds like you have a different agenda here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

I hate the idea of adding another transition by separating 6th grade, but love the idea of dedicating one of the schools to an academically selective school. Would be a real game changer for families on the Hill.

Then there would be all the stress and game playing to get a seat at the academically selective school, shutting out those who don't know how to play the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 7th grader at Jefferson and am happy to answer any questions. My kid is really happy and has been very successful so far. In Algebra, joined lots of clubs, made a few of the sports teams. Gets themselves to school and home independently on the Circulator daily, along with friends from all of the feeder schools. We really like the small school size (about 100 less students than SH) and the admin has been very responsive. The principal is really passionate and the LSAT this year focused on adding positions to further support accelerated students in all subjects.

Yes, and for every UMC kid like yours who tries Jefferson, one leaves after 6th grade, if they make it that far. We know two 6th graders, Brent grads, who only made it as far as winter break. Fact is, there's still not much in the way of definite honors classes at Jefferson. We've heard the "further support for accelerated students" from "responsive" admins (try cagey) jazz before. All the passion from the principal in the world won't solve the problem that Jefferson has lost ground with Brent families in the last five or six years. OK, Jefferson picked up a few Van Ness grads but the reality is that almost all the in-boundary momentum is with SH and Eliot-Hine here in 2024.

It doesn't sound like the Jefferson parent was advocating to pick their school over others. They were just providing a resource where they were happy to answer questions. Sounds like you have a different agenda here.

Of course she was advocating for parents to pick Jefferson. That's been the agenda of the Jefferson boosters for a decade. They're always happy to answer questions, just not to admit that the school is losing ground in attracting in-boundary families, and has been since late in the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 7th grader at Jefferson and am happy to answer any questions. My kid is really happy and has been very successful so far. In Algebra, joined lots of clubs, made a few of the sports teams. Gets themselves to school and home independently on the Circulator daily, along with friends from all of the feeder schools. We really like the small school size (about 100 less students than SH) and the admin has been very responsive. The principal is really passionate and the LSAT this year focused on adding positions to further support accelerated students in all subjects.

Yes, and for every UMC kid like yours who tries Jefferson, one leaves after 6th grade, if they make it that far. We know two 6th graders, Brent grads, who only made it as far as winter break. Fact is, there's still not much in the way of definite honors classes at Jefferson. We've heard the "further support for accelerated students" from "responsive" admins (try cagey) jazz before. All the passion from the principal in the world won't solve the problem that Jefferson has lost ground with Brent families in the last five or six years. OK, Jefferson picked up a few Van Ness grads but the reality is that almost all the in-boundary momentum is with SH and Eliot-Hine here in 2024.

It doesn't sound like the Jefferson parent was advocating to pick their school over others. They were just providing a resource where they were happy to answer questions. Sounds like you have a different agenda here.

Of course she was advocating for parents to pick Jefferson. That's been the agenda of the Jefferson boosters for a decade. They're always happy to answer questions, just not to admit that the school is losing ground in attracting in-boundary families, and has been since late in the pandemic.

I have a 4th grader on CH now so keeping my eye on the 3 MS (we were shut out of all the charters for 5th with terrible WL numbers). I appreciated the information shared since all the SH boosters have been very vocal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It never ceases to amaze me how nasty and bitter people are on this subject. There are, in fact, good kids of all types at all three of those schools, happy kids, caring teachers, good facilities, fun after school program. NOBODY CARES if you send your kid to Latin or Basis. But it’s a real pathology to come on here bashing schools your neighbors’ kids attend. If you have a concrete complaint or question bring it on. But the attacks are just absurd.

Read your own post. You are resorting to name calling and mischaracterizing people’s fact-based responses as “nasty” because you don’t want to face the truth about Elliot-Hine, which is that the vast majority of kids are below grade level.

SH and EH have almost identical test scores btw.

And of course it’s all the racialized commentary and calling the school “terrible” that is nasty. We all know what the test scores are.

EH's 8th grade scores in both ELA and Math are significantly worse. Could read that in a number of ways. Future PARCC scores might help clarify what's going on there. But that doesn't help OP, who needs to make a choice now.

Don't you just love DCUM gaslighting? Scores are published but that doesn't stop people from just making things up.

Who is gaslighting whom? EH had 33% meeting/exceeding in math last year to SH's 30%. For ELA it was 52.5% for EH vs 66% for SH.

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at SH:
ELA: 68 of 146 (47%)
Math (8th grade): 6 of 114 (5%)
Math (Algebra 1): 22 of 29 (76%)

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at Jefferson:
ELA: 37 of 120 (31%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed
Math (Algebra 1): 13 of 15 (87%)
Math (Geometry): <10

One point for context is that SH allows parents to opt their kids into the accelerated math path even if they don't qualify, but heavily suggests against it. (There are now 3 defined paths: Direct acceleration (doing 7th grade math -- with 7th graders -- in 6th); an accelerated/combined 6th/7th grade content class (all 6th graders) designed to get you to 8th grade math in 7th grade if it goes well, but kids can choose to drop down and do normal 7th grade math in 7th, so there's an easy off-ramp; and a standard 6th grade class. The school gives you a suggested path based on BOY MAP testing, but will allow you to choose a different path with counseling. They also do counseling post-the accelerated middle track and kids are about 50/50 in terms of whether they continue on or not.) What this means is that you can basically guarantee your kid Algebra 1 in 8th if you want to & you can absolutely guarantee your kid a shot at it if they aren't a great test taker/are coming from a school with a rockier foundation. I think, on balance, it's a positive, but it doesn't mean that the Algebra 1 class isn't all math superstars like it is at Jefferson, where placement is much squishier and there is no known/available path to opt into the higher level class. For true math superstars, I could see parents preferring the option that guarantees every kid in the class "should" be there though. (I am not familiar with EH, so I don't know how it works there, but it seems like they have very few kids in that position to begin with.)

If you look at the approaching, meeting, or exceeding scores for Algebra 1, SH and Jefferson are at 90% and >= 90%, respectively, so I think on balance the classes at both schools end up filled with similarly capable students.

Data for EH, on the other hand, is still suppressed, though with some finagling you can figure out it's somewhere between 10-12 students approaching, meeting, or exceeding in Algebra 1, with somewhere between 1-3 of those students meeting or exceeding.

To the extent that SH and Jefferson scores are similar and solid, it does suggest that SH's flexible approach to placement might be a winner. It will be easier to judge for sure in 2 years when more kids are coming off the middle math path, because that's the one that I think it makes sense to let parents place their kids on.

This is all just convincing me more that the MS should be clustered!

I really wish it were. If I were the chancellor, I would make EH an application school (with fairly generous academic standards and some floor of elementary school attendance and behavior) focused on the IB MYP and feeding kids into the Eastern IB program. Then JA could have all 6th graders in the Eastern feeder and SH all the 7th and 8th graders (or vice versa). Use 6th grade as a real team building experience with field trips and activities, focus on skills like executive function and conflict resolution, and have a mix of tracked classes (so kids get ELA and math at the right level for them) and non-tracked (so kids have the chance to make new friends). I think this would get a lot more people interested in continuing to Eastern too.

I hate the idea of adding another transition by separating 6th grade, but love the idea of dedicating one of the schools to an academically selective school. Would be a real game changer for families on the Hill.

Then there would be all the stress and game playing to get a seat at the academically selective school, shutting out those who don't know how to play the game.

I mean . . . Okay? I obviously wouldn’t want to recreate whatever nonsense at Walls lately, but a test would be a straightforward way to admit students. And you could provide test prep materials for free to mitigate equity issues like they do in New York.

Nothing is ever going to be perfect, but we have a pretty good way of doing these things, and it’s obviously preferable to allow advanced students to learn and achieve as much as they can than to leave them to moulder in gen ed classes.