Is Latin really all that and a bag of chips?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite - here are the top five reasons our family is very happy at Latin

1. Incredible, passionate, dedicated teaching and support staff - I’ve never met a group of people in a school setting like them and it goes all the way to the top -

2. The special ed team is great and always works to find the support solutions needed and changes it when it is not working - we have two kids one who needs support and one who doesn’t and both are thriving

3. The small size of the school allows kids to do lots of things they are interested in - like jazz band and wrestling- great do both!

4. The education philosophy I totally buy into - some may not - but the focus on humanities and learning deeply about a subject - classical education sounds stiff but honestly in todays world it is a breath of fresh air

5. Student autonomy - pushing students to interact directly with a teacher if they need help with an assignment or are missing work - I love that it is teaching our kids to take ownership over their own education.

Seems super vague.

Let me guess: your kids are "thriving" there, whatever that means.

They actually explicitly said their kids are thriving. Reading comprehension seems to be a weak point for you.

True. PP must have gone to Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Nope …

[Anonymous]

My child got into a competitive private high school from Latin, as did about 10% of the class.

Latin turn DC onto Latin (the language), which is a plus and I think taking AP Latin will be good on an application. It was likely a better atmosphere than Deal or Hardy (because of the covid years), but by 8th grade DC was just over it.

I really hate that public school just wasn't enough for my kid, but it wasn't. Private high school offers the advanced challenges they needed.

People REALLY love Latin. We did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

EmpowerK12 website. Filter for "HS", "4+" and "all students".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Nope …

Actually, yes. If you have a data source that shows it's not, then cite it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

If you are getting McKinley Tech first, then you are reading 3+ (approaching proficiency) and not 4+ (proficiency). The EmpowerK12 dashboards are set at 3+ and at-risk unless you filter them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

If you are getting McKinley Tech first, then you are reading 3+ (approaching proficiency) and not 4+ (proficiency). The EmpowerK12 dashboards are set at 3+ and at-risk unless you filter them.

Sure. Set for 4+ and all kids we have for math:

Walls (67 percent)
Basis (63)
Banneker (45)
Latin (30 percent)

ELA, same order

https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

If you are getting McKinley Tech first, then you are reading 3+ (approaching proficiency) and not 4+ (proficiency). The EmpowerK12 dashboards are set at 3+ and at-risk unless you filter them.

Sure. Set for 4+ and all kids we have for math:

Walls (67 percent)
Basis (63)
Banneker (45)
Latin (30 percent)

ELA, same order

https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

Considering the low at risk % at Latin, 30% is really low to be proficient in math. That is less than 1/3rd of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m from a feeder and went to the Latin main campus open house. FWIW, the question was asked if Latin has many families coming from immersion charters (DCI feeders) and admin says no they don’t.

Thanks for this. I trimmed just to reduce text.

We actually know a few different LAMB families at Latin and they highly recommended it to us and I don't know any other feeder families that got an offier so that part isn't super telling to me.

We watched presentations from both schools and didn't get the blown away reaction you had but will visit in person, I hope, and will see.

I'm assuming you didn't even enter the lottery based on what you saw?

PP here, correct.

As to your statement about not knowing any other feeder families that got offers, you need to realize there are many families like us who did not even play the lottery for Latin so getting an offer is a moot point. You can’t get an offer if you don’t list it.

Lastly your anecdotal about knowing a few feeder families there does not prove many families from feeders go there. I don’t know percentages but this question was asked directly to leadership at the open house by another family and their answer was no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

If you are getting McKinley Tech first, then you are reading 3+ (approaching proficiency) and not 4+ (proficiency). The EmpowerK12 dashboards are set at 3+ and at-risk unless you filter them.

Sure. Set for 4+ and all kids we have for math:

Walls (67 percent)
Basis (63)
Banneker (45)
Latin (30 percent)

ELA, same order

https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

I think you need to add combined MS and HS to get DCI to show up. It comes in right above Latin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Latin’s more average academics is why it appeals to such a vast number of families. So many more people can see themselves at Latin because it’s essentially a great compromise between “too rigorous” academics like BASIS and “non-existent” academics at their in-bound DCPS middle school. Latin’s academics are good, and lots of high achieving kids go there, which makes it a unicorn in DC. But based on conversations with families there, it’s not the best fit for students advanced in math and science. Also, the laid back attitude of the families there could be exactly what some people are looking for, but it could be the wrong fit for families looking to be surrounded by the type A families that are more likely to be found at a school like BASIS. Just because Latin is so popular doesn’t mean that it’s the best choice for everyone.

The high performing kids and families go to Basis.

The average performing kids go to Latin. If your kid is average performing, families tend to be more laid back.

Sure they might be some high performing kids at Latin but it’s definitely not a large group and why their scores are so bad even though the majority of families at both school are from CH with similar SES

Latin is the third highest performing high school in the city on PARCCC. The two higher performing schools, SWS and Banneker are application schools.

Where are you getting that data?

The data I'm reading says for high school Math PARCC it's Walls, Basis, Banneker, McKinley Tech, DCI and then Latin.

Ela is a bit better -- Walls, Banneker, Basis and then Latin, McKinley


https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

If you are getting McKinley Tech first, then you are reading 3+ (approaching proficiency) and not 4+ (proficiency). The EmpowerK12 dashboards are set at 3+ and at-risk unless you filter them.

Sure. Set for 4+ and all kids we have for math:

Walls (67 percent)
Basis (63)
Banneker (45)
Latin (30 percent)

ELA, same order

https://www.empowerk12.org/data-dashboard-source/dc-parcc-dash

I think you need to add combined MS and HS to get DCI to show up. It comes in right above Latin.

I saw that also but DCI has twice the at risk of Latin so they seem to being doing a better job overall.

[Anonymous]

The Lamb comparison is really not a good one. Lamb is not really rigorous in 4th-5th grade so families at Latin are having a better experience in comparison. But these lamb families at Latin have not been to DCI so their experience at Latin tells you nothing about how DCI compares. While Latin may be good for classics, DCI offers better stem and language opportunities. I know of Latin families whose kids were below level in Math and they are really happy with the targeted help the school provides their kids. But for kids who are at grade level or advanced, they’re pretty bored with Latin math/science.


quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m from a feeder and went to the Latin main campus open house. FWIW, the question was asked if Latin has many families coming from immersion charters (DCI feeders) and admin says no they don’t.

Thanks for this. I trimmed just to reduce text.

We actually know a few different LAMB families at Latin and they highly recommended it to us and I don't know any other feeder families that got an offier so that part isn't super telling to me.

We watched presentations from both schools and didn't get the blown away reaction you had but will visit in person, I hope, and will see.

I'm assuming you didn't even enter the lottery based on what you saw?

[Anonymous]

The problem with the DC PARCC Dashboard is that you are comparing all MS and HS students in schools such as BASIS and DCI to all HS students including HS students in selective schools such as Walls and Banneker (this doesn’t affect Latin since for some reason they provide separate scores for MS and HS) The PARCC scores of a 5th grader at BASIS or Latin, which are both 100% lottery schools, are not going to tell you much about the education at those schools since those kids had just enrolled. Moreover, it is absurd to compare such a 5th grader to a high school student at Walls and Banneker, who may well have come from BASIS or Latin. And you are also including 9th grade kids at, say, Walls and Banneker that are being tested just after they entered those schools. Again, that is not going to tell you much about the education at Walls and Banneker.

A better comparison is to look how kids did on the PARCC in 10th grade. This is after they have been at BASIS, DCI, and Latin for a while and after they have been at Walls and Banneker for at least a couple of years.

Here are the 4+ 10th grade PARCC scores for the schools above:

BASIS

ELA 87.5
Math 90.0

Walls

ELA 93.5
Math 56.0

Banneker

ELA 84.09
Math 36.0

Latin

ELA 71.91
Math <=10.0

DCI

ELA 45.26
Math suppressed [27.48 in 9th grade]

In short, BASIS is way ahead of other schools in math and Walls, BASIS, and Banneker are about the same for ELA.

Accordingly, if you have an academically inclined kid, you would probably pick BASIS over Latin and DCI for MS and if your kid went to BASIS you would be unlikely to switch in 9th grade to Walls or Banneker for academic reasons, particularly if you were focused on STEM.