Which is better capitalism or socialism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism is better

Unless, of course, you are in the capitalist class. Your standard of living may drop when you stop oppressing others.

OP here - How are capitalists oppressing the “non-capitalist class”? Are they holding a gun to their head forcing them to work for certain wages? Is the working class in true socialist countries living a better life than the “oppressed” here?

OMG, holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to work for certain wages. What a metaphor.

Work or starve. Don't like the wage, work somewhere else. Oh everyone has similarly sucky wages? What a shame.

Side note, federal minimum wage has not been changed from $7.25 per hour since 2009. TWO THOUSAND NINE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone here that can name a capitalist country that butchered and starved millions of its own citizens to maintain government power?
How many millions starved to death under Stalin? 3 -5 million during the Holodomor?
How many millions starved to death during Mao's great leap forward? 30-40 million?
How many people are dying in North Korea?
Who cares?

Of course. The United States of America comes immediately to mind as an historical example. 18 million American Indians dead.

But also, see:

Congo, 1885-1909
The Great Famine in Ireland
165 million Indians starved by the British between 1870-1920
One of the worst starvations recently occurred in Somalia, a capitalist country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, hope your kids aren't in public school, and I really hope you don't plan on Social Security or Medicare. Please don't take unemployment benefits, or complain about potholes. Don't engage in anything that has federal funding, please, which includes higher ed, the arts, medical advances from research.

It's all a one sided understanding with you types, but you're the first to complain about inflation, right? We have inflation due to corporate gouging- they got bail outs and turned around and took advantage of the system by raising prices.
. It's not even capitalism we have, it's a
system of oligarchy.

Our nation has the very rich, supported by tax cuts and benefits, but also we have people literally starving on the street and dying from a lack of health care access. So is this the question you really want to ask today?

You are confused. Capitalism doesn’t mean don’t pay any taxes at all. Certain socialist services are necessary for a functioning capitalist society. And by the way the wealthiest 50% pay most of the taxes in this country so how is it that the wealthy aren’t paying their fair share. But paying taxes so someone’s student debt can be canceled when they alone agreed to their loan is not what capitalists had in mind (unless you want to buy votes). Or paying for illegal aliens’ health care for that matter.

+1000

Not to derail, but Biden just cancelled student loan debt for 150K more, with loans less than $12K who have paid on them for over 10 years. My question is How the hell do you pay on a 12K loan for over 10 years and not pay it off? Cannot wrap my mind around how little you'd need to be paying, and why you wouldn't just pay $125-150/month and get rid of them.

The income-based loans aren't set up to amortize normally, which is the answer. But it also makes them a bit predatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism is better

Unless, of course, you are in the capitalist class. Your standard of living may drop when you stop oppressing others.

OP here - How are capitalists oppressing the “non-capitalist class”? Are they holding a gun to their head forcing them to work for certain wages? Is the working class in true socialist countries living a better life than the “oppressed” here?

OMG, holding a gun to someone's head and forcing them to work for certain wages. What a metaphor.

Work or starve. Don't like the wage, work somewhere else. Oh everyone has similarly sucky wages? What a shame.

Side note, federal minimum wage has not been changed from $7.25 per hour since 2009. TWO THOUSAND NINE!

If you work for minimum wage you’re either a teenager in your first job or you’re a chump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, hope your kids aren't in public school, and I really hope you don't plan on Social Security or Medicare. Please don't take unemployment benefits, or complain about potholes. Don't engage in anything that has federal funding, please, which includes higher ed, the arts, medical advances from research.

It's all a one sided understanding with you types, but you're the first to complain about inflation, right? We have inflation due to corporate gouging- they got bail outs and turned around and took advantage of the system by raising prices.
. It's not even capitalism we have, it's a
system of oligarchy.

Our nation has the very rich, supported by tax cuts and benefits, but also we have people literally starving on the street and dying from a lack of health care access. So is this the question you really want to ask today?

You are confused. Capitalism doesn’t mean don’t pay any taxes at all. Certain socialist services are necessary for a functioning capitalist society. And by the way the wealthiest 50% pay most of the taxes in this country so how is it that the wealthy aren’t paying their fair share. But paying taxes so someone’s student debt can be canceled when they alone agreed to their loan is not what capitalists had in mind (unless you want to buy votes). Or paying for illegal aliens’ health care for that matter.

See this is where a compromise could be good. I don't want to pay off someone's student loans either. But why can't we have a (gasp) government program where we give interest free loans for behaviors we want to encourage? Like getting our populace educated. Maybe even incentivize them to study things we need and want more of like science and tech?

As for healthcare, I know illegals don't qualify for any official healthcare plans, so are you talking about people who go to ERs then skip out on the bill? Also, I hope you are not Christian because the whole "care for the poor and sick" thing could create some real cognitive dissonance for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I fear you are not very bright. You don't seem to understand what socialism is.

To answer your question, capitalism and socialism each have their merits in some respects. Unfettered capitalism doesn't work as we saw in say, slavery, child labor, triangle shirtwaist factory, stock market crash, etc.

Socialism means a collective ownership of factories and corporations. That's not efficient.

What you are complaining about is taxes and a progressive tax system that takes more from those who have more money. Except billionaires, we don't tax them.

Good post until the last sentence. Billionaires pay plenty of taxes and the companies that many of them have created support tens/hundreds of thousands of jobs for people who also pay taxes. Top 50% of earners in this country pay most of the taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope…you’re still confused. Moving to a state that doesn’t tax the bejeezus out of you is open to anyone not just the ultra wealthy. I’m solid MC and the idea of moving to a tax free state so I don’t have to pay state taxes on my capital gains is definitely compelling.

If you work for minimum wage it’s because you choose to work for minimum wage. No one is holding a gun to their head to work those jobs. Increase your skills/education, find another job, make yourself more marketable to earn higher wages or…gasp…be an entrepreneur and start a company and be the CEO.

Agree our healthcare system is broken. Let’s reform tort law and remove the many many hands in the cookie jar and the costs will come down.

The effect of medical malpractice lawsuits on the cost of health care has been proven to be wildly overstated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with socialism is human nature. Sure everyone working for the common cause and singing kumbaya sounds good in theory but the reality is a completely different matter. With socialism there is no incentive to work hard, take risk with capital, innovate, be an entrepreneur, etc. Society would stagnate. I’ll take capitalism with all its flaws any day. By the way, that smart phone in your hand is a result of capitalism.

You still don't understand what socialism is.

Let's say you have an electric company. You decide to make it socialist. All the residents in the state of Vermont are now considered owners of the electric company. The company has staff, including management. And a Board of Directors. The staff and management are paid by the company to "work hard". The profits of the electric company are shared with the share holders, who are the residents. The staff may even get bonuses if they do a great job each year and the company is running efficiently.

Alaska does something like this, see the checks they mail out to all their residents each year for oil and gas proceeds. Google the oil and gas dividend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Capitalism is the worst form of government. It's only slightly better than every other form of government.

Capitalism isn’t a form of govt. It’s an economic system.

Well, until you consider Supreme Court conflict of interest, and political donations, right? Nah- in our country, capitalism is our form of govt.

Sorry thought you were talking about the Biden Administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with socialism is human nature. Sure everyone working for the common cause and singing kumbaya sounds good in theory but the reality is a completely different matter. With socialism there is no incentive to work hard, take risk with capital, innovate, be an entrepreneur, etc. Society would stagnate. I’ll take capitalism with all its flaws any day. By the way, that smart phone in your hand is a result of capitalism.

You still don't understand what socialism is.

Let's say you have an electric company. You decide to make it socialist. All the residents in the state of Vermont are now considered owners of the electric company. The company has staff, including management. And a Board of Directors. The staff and management are paid by the company to "work hard". The profits of the electric company are shared with the share holders, who are the residents. The staff may even get bonuses if they do a great job each year and the company is running efficiently.

Alaska does something like this, see the checks they mail out to all their residents each year for oil and gas proceeds. Google the oil and gas dividend.

Agree with pp here. The person before doesn't understand what socialism is. They're describing something else -- what, I don't know. But it's not socialism.

[Anonymous]

Again, you are not well educated on this topic, you should stop posting:


How many millions starved to death under Stalin? 3 -5 million during the Holodomor?
How many millions starved to death during Mao's great leap forward? 30-40 million?
How many people are dying in North Korea?


These are not socialist countries. Stalin and Mao were COMMUNISTS. Kim is a dictator. His country isn't a functioning anything. Not capitalist, not socialist, no even really communist, it is chaos.

This is what happens when you have dictators instead of democracy. Ahem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very worried about the direction of our country. There seems to be an accelerating drift toward socialism with the forced distribution of wealth. The famous quote about socialism working until you run out of other people’s money keeps coming to mind. What are people’s thoughts on this?

My thought is....is there someone with too much time on their hands starting all these threads just to get people riled up for their own entertainment? Or is someone or some organization funding an effort to go on various popular message and discussion boards and start threads to get people riled up to increase the perception of strong political divides, reduce confidence in the government, and generally contribute to the negative climate in the US?

There was a great podcast posted last week here in the Money forum. The take-away as it applies to this thread is that 70% of Americans are basically centrist and want to get along. But there is 15% extremists on the left and 15% extremists on the right who live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and are highly vocal and demonizing, making the 70% fearful of speaking out. This makes the country seem more divided than it is.

I don't see how that can be true when somehow the 15%managed to get rid of my daughter's abortion rights.

Pahleeze…..stop spouting falsities you read in The NY Times and WaPo. They didn’t get rid of your daughter’s right to an abortion. They passed abortion rights onto the States where it correctly should be per our Constitution which clearly states powers not specifically given to the federal govt is with the States. If you don’t like that fact, get an abortion rights amendment added to the Constitution or get a federal law passed.

What’s more concerning is I don’t see how the above can be true when somehow the 15% managed to open our borders to an illegal immigration onslaught, forgive student loans with taxpayer money for individuals who signed an individual contract to pay the loans back, printed trillions of dollars resulting in runaway inflation, allow rampant crime to explode with little legal repercussions, attempt to ban gas stoves, provide free health care to illegal aliens, etc etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very worried about the direction of our country. There seems to be an accelerating drift toward socialism with the forced distribution of wealth. The famous quote about socialism working until you run out of other people’s money keeps coming to mind. What are people’s thoughts on this?

My thought is....is there someone with too much time on their hands starting all these threads just to get people riled up for their own entertainment? Or is someone or some organization funding an effort to go on various popular message and discussion boards and start threads to get people riled up to increase the perception of strong political divides, reduce confidence in the government, and generally contribute to the negative climate in the US?

There was a great podcast posted last week here in the Money forum. The take-away as it applies to this thread is that 70% of Americans are basically centrist and want to get along. But there is 15% extremists on the left and 15% extremists on the right who live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and are highly vocal and demonizing, making the 70% fearful of speaking out. This makes the country seem more divided than it is.

I don't see how that can be true when somehow the 15%managed to get rid of my daughter's abortion rights.

Pahleeze…..stop spouting falsities you read in The NY Times and WaPo. They didn’t get rid of your daughter’s right to an abortion. They passed abortion rights onto the States where it correctly should be per our Constitution which clearly states powers not specifically given to the federal govt is with the States. If you don’t like that fact, get an abortion rights amendment added to the Constitution or get a federal law passed.

What’s more concerning is I don’t see how the above can be true when somehow the 15% managed to open our borders to an illegal immigration onslaught, forgive student loans with taxpayer money for individuals who signed an individual contract to pay the loans back, printed trillions of dollars resulting in runaway inflation, allow rampant crime to explode with little legal repercussions, attempt to ban gas stoves, provide free health care to illegal aliens, etc etc

Please go visit the "embryos are now children in Alabama" thread and we can pick this up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, hope your kids aren't in public school, and I really hope you don't plan on Social Security or Medicare. Please don't take unemployment benefits, or complain about potholes. Don't engage in anything that has federal funding, please, which includes higher ed, the arts, medical advances from research.

It's all a one sided understanding with you types, but you're the first to complain about inflation, right? We have inflation due to corporate gouging- they got bail outs and turned around and took advantage of the system by raising prices.
. It's not even capitalism we have, it's a
system of oligarchy.

Our nation has the very rich, supported by tax cuts and benefits, but also we have people literally starving on the street and dying from a lack of health care access. So is this the question you really want to ask today?

You are confused. Capitalism doesn’t mean don’t pay any taxes at all. Certain socialist services are necessary for a functioning capitalist society. And by the way the wealthiest 50% pay most of the taxes in this country so how is it that the wealthy aren’t paying their fair share. But paying taxes so someone’s student debt can be canceled when they alone agreed to their loan is not what capitalists had in mind (unless you want to buy votes). Or paying for illegal aliens’ health care for that matter.

See this is where a compromise could be good. I don't want to pay off someone's student loans either. But why can't we have a (gasp) government program where we give interest free loans for behaviors we want to encourage? Like getting our populace educated. Maybe even incentivize them to study things we need and want more of like science and tech?

As for healthcare, I know illegals don't qualify for any official healthcare plans, so are you talking about people who go to ERs then skip out on the bill? Also, I hope you are not Christian because the whole "care for the poor and sick" thing could create some real cognitive dissonance for you.

The government should immediately get out of the student loan business and I guarantee you the cost of college would drop significantly. If I was a college comptroller and the govt said they were going to forgive $10K of student loans, I would immediately raise the price of tuition by $10K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m very worried about the direction of our country. There seems to be an accelerating drift toward socialism with the forced distribution of wealth. The famous quote about socialism working until you run out of other people’s money keeps coming to mind. What are people’s thoughts on this?

My thought is....is there someone with too much time on their hands starting all these threads just to get people riled up for their own entertainment? Or is someone or some organization funding an effort to go on various popular message and discussion boards and start threads to get people riled up to increase the perception of strong political divides, reduce confidence in the government, and generally contribute to the negative climate in the US?

There was a great podcast posted last week here in the Money forum. The take-away as it applies to this thread is that 70% of Americans are basically centrist and want to get along. But there is 15% extremists on the left and 15% extremists on the right who live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and are highly vocal and demonizing, making the 70% fearful of speaking out. This makes the country seem more divided than it is.

I don't see how that can be true when somehow the 15%managed to get rid of my daughter's abortion rights.

, forgive student loans with taxpayer money for individuals who signed an individual contract to pay the loans back, printed trillions of dollars resulting in runaway inflation, allow rampant crime to explode with little legal repercussions, attempt to ban gas stoves, provide free health care to illegal aliens, etc etc

Back up your claims.

Who printed the money? PPP and ERTC was approved under Trump, right? Did you or your employer take this money? Not that I think it was the wrong thing to do. But yes it has consequences.
Who is banning gas stoves? BANNING. link?
Free health care to illegals? How do tax payers pay for that. link?
Open border? Who just tanked the border legislation?
Crime is trending down. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/p00099/nypd-january-2024-citywide-crime-statistics

You just spew hate talking points with no research behind your mental diarrhea because you come from a place of fear and hate, not reason and facts.