Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Rates are high, yes, but jobs are much better under Biden if you actually pay attention to numbers rather than conjecture

I am paying attention. A lot of kids who received a job offer after May 2022 graduation was deferred to start in January and now deferred to May start. A lot of layouts even in industry that we always considered safe, like IT and engineers. You should pay attention what is going on beyond the numbers that this administration feeding you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Rates are high, yes, but jobs are much better under Biden if you actually pay attention to numbers rather than conjecture

I am paying attention. A lot of kids who received a job offer after May 2022 graduation was deferred to start in January and now deferred to May start. A lot of layouts even in industry that we always considered safe, like IT and engineers. You should pay attention what is going on beyond the numbers that this administration feeding you.

Ah so you do go by conjecture over statistics. Thanks for proving the point I made with your own post. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My in laws could afford a colonial in McLean in the 60’s and 70’s with a single earner salary working for gov as gs12

That is about as middle income as you can get

Now you can’t touch McLean colonials for under 1.5 million. And that is not a gov gs12 single earner family

Demand outstrips supply , and we keep making it worse by importing millions of legal and illegal immigrants. It is insane.

My 16 year old daughter blames it on feminists forcing women to work outside the home. I guess my kid isn't picking up on the cues to be a feminist very well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Rates are high, yes, but jobs are much better under Biden if you actually pay attention to numbers rather than conjecture

I am paying attention. A lot of kids who received a job offer after May 2022 graduation was deferred to start in January and now deferred to May start. A lot of layouts even in industry that we always considered safe, like IT and engineers. You should pay attention what is going on beyond the numbers that this administration feeding you.

Yet, your own kid is doing great. How do you reconcile? Layoffs don’t somehow protect anyone hired at some particular point in time.

IT has always been volatile…not sure why you would think it is “safe”. I mean, think of the layoffs after the dotcom boom….much worse than anything today.

Also, there is always a bull market in tech somehwhere. My kid is in AI and is constantly approached about switching jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws could afford a colonial in McLean in the 60’s and 70’s with a single earner salary working for gov as gs12

That is about as middle income as you can get

Now you can’t touch McLean colonials for under 1.5 million. And that is not a gov gs12 single earner family

Demand outstrips supply , and we keep making it worse by importing millions of legal and illegal immigrants. It is insane.

My 16 year old daughter blames it on feminists forcing women to work outside the home. I guess my kid isn't picking up on the cues to be a feminist very well.

Did you at least correct her complete lack of critical thinking for a complex problem? Do you think the price of housing magically goes up because more people are working and it is removed from the laws of supply and demand?

So, if everyone just becomes poorer, that is your solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws could afford a colonial in McLean in the 60’s and 70’s with a single earner salary working for gov as gs12

That is about as middle income as you can get

Now you can’t touch McLean colonials for under 1.5 million. And that is not a gov gs12 single earner family

Demand outstrips supply , and we keep making it worse by importing millions of legal and illegal immigrants. It is insane.

My 16 year old daughter blames it on feminists forcing women to work outside the home. I guess my kid isn't picking up on the cues to be a feminist very well.

Oh well by all means, blame it on the feminists, a favorite whipping boy after immigrants.

And no worries for your daughter... Republicans plan to take all her rights away soon anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

Literally, the post says can the "average" American afford the American Dream. Honestly, the answer is empirical.

1955
Median HH Income: $4,400 (primarily single earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $800 (18% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $600 (13.6% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $9,100 (107% of HHI)
Median Car Price (Ford): $2,000 (45.5% of HHI)

2023
Median HHI Income: $75,000 (majority two-earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $54,269 (72.4% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $11,505 (15.3% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $431,000 (475% of HHI)
Median Car Price: $48,000 (64% of HHI)

So, empirically...yes it is nearly impossible for the average 9-to-5er to achieve the American Dream on one-income.

Again, there is also a significant difference in how people saved and spent their $$$s over the generations. As an example, my father was expected to pay 100% of his college, even though his own father was actually college-educated and was a senior corporate executive. Now, he had come from nothing...but it wasn't that uncommon for college to be the kid's responsibility, knowing there were many, many options where the kid could work over Summers and the School year and pay for it with $0 student loans (not even sure student loans existed in the 1950s?).

Many people, especially who came of age in the 1940s and 1950s, had corporate pensions, so you weren't saving every extra nickel to pay for your own retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Rates are high, yes, but jobs are much better under Biden if you actually pay attention to numbers rather than conjecture

I am paying attention. A lot of kids who received a job offer after May 2022 graduation was deferred to start in January and now deferred to May start. A lot of layouts even in industry that we always considered safe, like IT and engineers. You should pay attention what is going on beyond the numbers that this administration feeding you.

Mmmm, anecdata!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure - I lean left, but pragmatically so and I’m often skeptical of some of the maxims of the far left.

One such is - and this is where some of my friends on the populist left beer into Make America Great Again territory in this glorification of the past - the idea that once upon a time, a middle class worker could afford a house in the suburbs and raise kids on a single income.

The rationale behind this nostalgia is that income inequality has grown, and the combination of corporate greed-driven inflation and stagnant wages has lowered the purchasing power of your average workaday nine-to-five bloke, and that only the ultra rich can afford the “American Dream” lifestyle of a single family home with a white picket fence, etc. And that somebody somewhere along the line, probably Ronald Reagan, ruined everything.

While the sentiment resonates with me ideologically, I’d like to take a closer look at some of the assumptions.

First, having a single income generally meant that the woman stayed home. While I’m as feminist as the next person and think women of course should have freedom to work, the trade off is childcare costs.

Second, the middle class “American Dream” of the 1950s was a lot simpler. It’s one thing to acknowledge the insane cost of housing, but even the 50s/60s “keeping up with the Joneses” era didn’t have the same expenses of today. Smartphones and all the tech and gadgets didn’t exist, and overseas vacations were rare.

Third, and this is where I actually don’t know the answer and am asking the audience… to what extent was the “American Dream” affordable to the AVERAGE person, versus an aspiration that could be achieved by competing and moving up the ladder? Maybe in the 1990s? (I say this because I grew up solidly middle class in the 90s, my parents both worked but they had normal jobs, were not executives, didn’t work excessive hours, and could afford a SFH, three cars, summer camps, and the occasional overseas vacation plus Florida).

I DO believe that a) we have a housing crisis, and b) “hustle culture” is toxic. But I do have doubts about the idea that life used to be so much easier and that younger generations have it uniquely hard.

I have not read through all the responses, but here is my experience:

I was born in 1970. At that time, both of my parents were working part-time in menial jobs and were in school — first getting their Bachelor’s degrees, then on to graduate school. Neither one had any real debt after college (my mom had maybe $300 in loans), and they were able to buy a home. We were not rich, but we were not poor either. Fast-forward to 1988, when I started college, tuition rose four times the rise in the cost of living, but even the cost of living was becoming unaffordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

Literally, the post says can the "average" American afford the American Dream. Honestly, the answer is empirical.

1955
Median HH Income: $4,400 (primarily single earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $800 (18% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $600 (13.6% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $9,100 (107% of HHI)
Median Car Price (Ford): $2,000 (45.5% of HHI)

2023
Median HHI Income: $75,000 (majority two-earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $54,269 (72.4% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $11,505 (15.3% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $431,000 (475% of HHI)
Median Car Price: $48,000 (64% of HHI)

So, empirically...yes it is nearly impossible for the average 9-to-5er to achieve the American Dream on one-income.

Again, there is also a significant difference in how people saved and spent their $$$s over the generations. As an example, my father was expected to pay 100% of his college, even though his own father was actually college-educated and was a senior corporate executive. Now, he had come from nothing...but it wasn't that uncommon for college to be the kid's responsibility, knowing there were many, many options where the kid could work over Summers and the School year and pay for it with $0 student loans (not even sure student loans existed in the 1950s?).

Many people, especially who came of age in the 1940s and 1950s, had corporate pensions, so you weren't saving every extra nickel to pay for your own retirement.

No one is forced to go to Harvard and no one is forced to buy a house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

Literally, the post says can the "average" American afford the American Dream. Honestly, the answer is empirical.

1955
Median HH Income: $4,400 (primarily single earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $800 (18% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $600 (13.6% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $9,100 (107% of HHI)
Median Car Price (Ford): $2,000 (45.5% of HHI)

2023
Median HHI Income: $75,000 (majority two-earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $54,269 (72.4% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $11,505 (15.3% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $431,000 (475% of HHI)
Median Car Price: $48,000 (64% of HHI)

So, empirically...yes it is nearly impossible for the average 9-to-5er to achieve the American Dream on one-income.

Again, there is also a significant difference in how people saved and spent their $$$s over the generations. As an example, my father was expected to pay 100% of his college, even though his own father was actually college-educated and was a senior corporate executive. Now, he had come from nothing...but it wasn't that uncommon for college to be the kid's responsibility, knowing there were many, many options where the kid could work over Summers and the School year and pay for it with $0 student loans (not even sure student loans existed in the 1950s?).

Many people, especially who came of age in the 1940s and 1950s, had corporate pensions, so you weren't saving every extra nickel to pay for your own retirement.

THIS POST. [phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

Literally, the post says can the "average" American afford the American Dream. Honestly, the answer is empirical.

1955
Median HH Income: $4,400 (primarily single earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $800 (18% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $600 (13.6% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $9,100 (107% of HHI)
Median Car Price (Ford): $2,000 (45.5% of HHI)

2023
Median HHI Income: $75,000 (majority two-earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $54,269 (72.4% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $11,505 (15.3% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $431,000 (475% of HHI)
Median Car Price: $48,000 (64% of HHI)

So, empirically...yes it is nearly impossible for the average 9-to-5er to achieve the American Dream on one-income.

Again, there is also a significant difference in how people saved and spent their $$$s over the generations. As an example, my father was expected to pay 100% of his college, even though his own father was actually college-educated and was a senior corporate executive. Now, he had come from nothing...but it wasn't that uncommon for college to be the kid's responsibility, knowing there were many, many options where the kid could work over Summers and the School year and pay for it with $0 student loans (not even sure student loans existed in the 1950s?).

Many people, especially who came of age in the 1940s and 1950s, had corporate pensions, so you weren't saving every extra nickel to pay for your own retirement.

No one is forced to go to Harvard and no one is forced to buy a house.

Nothing about your comment discredits the PP. Tit for tat. Factor in saving for retirement because few get pensions anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Why make s**t up. The unemployment rate is as low as it has ever been and the stock market is at record highs. Interest rates were rock bottom through 2022. Your weak reference to politics is stupid.

You also are referring to a professional…not the average American…and your daughter is single, with no family and childcare costs.

She can easily afford childcare in DMV area even if her partner choose to be a staying at home parent. OP’s question was not about blue color jobs, her question was about anyone who works 9-5. I gave you an example that it is possible.

Literally, the post says can the "average" American afford the American Dream. Honestly, the answer is empirical.

1955
Median HH Income: $4,400 (primarily single earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $800 (18% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $600 (13.6% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $9,100 (107% of HHI)
Median Car Price (Ford): $2,000 (45.5% of HHI)

2023
Median HHI Income: $75,000 (majority two-earner household)
Harvard Tuition: $54,269 (72.4% of HHI)
UMD In-State Tuition: $11,505 (15.3% of HHI)
Median Home Price: $431,000 (475% of HHI)
Median Car Price: $48,000 (64% of HHI)

So, empirically...yes it is nearly impossible for the average 9-to-5er to achieve the American Dream on one-income.

Again, there is also a significant difference in how people saved and spent their $$$s over the generations. As an example, my father was expected to pay 100% of his college, even though his own father was actually college-educated and was a senior corporate executive. Now, he had come from nothing...but it wasn't that uncommon for college to be the kid's responsibility, knowing there were many, many options where the kid could work over Summers and the School year and pay for it with $0 student loans (not even sure student loans existed in the 1950s?).

Many people, especially who came of age in the 1940s and 1950s, had corporate pensions, so you weren't saving every extra nickel to pay for your own retirement.

No one is forced to go to Harvard and no one is forced to buy a house.

Rents aren't necessarily cheaper, frankly, especially for a family.

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Anonymous wrote:Of course. My ILs raised 6 kids in a medium sized town in the upper Midwest- FIL was a public school teacher, MIL worked PT (secretarial jobs) once all the kids were in school. Had a large but modest home on a piece of land, and 2 cars, lived frugally otherwise. Put all 6 kids through college- 4 did undergrad at the local state university and 2 chose the local community college instead (all lived at home while attending). Kids worked PT once teens if they wanted a car or expensive clothes etc. FIL retired at 58 with a full pension, MIL worked until 68 by choice (enjoyed her work after being home for so many years). As for timeframe, their 6 kids were all born in the 70s.

This story could happen today

No- not with current healthcare and college costs.

My daughter graduated college few years ago, went on full merits scholarship, engineering degree from top school. Was able to purchase the house for herself on her own salary without our help (starting salary was 6 digits), interest rate under 3%. Totally doable on one salary today.

So no student loans, no dependents, good salary and low interest rate (less than half of what it is today). Not quite “doable” by “todays” standards.

She did not vote for today's standards, the low rates and plenty of jobs was during Trump's presidency. Today kids will have a choice to vote in November if they want jobs and house.

Rates are high, yes, but jobs are much better under Biden if you actually pay attention to numbers rather than conjecture

I am paying attention. A lot of kids who received a job offer after May 2022 graduation was deferred to start in January and now deferred to May start. A lot of layouts even in industry that we always considered safe, like IT and engineers. You should pay attention what is going on beyond the numbers that this administration feeding you.

Mmmm, anecdata!

Anecdata vs. Bidendata. But most of the people will be voting this year based on their own data.