Was there ever a time when your average nine to fiver could afford the American Dream?

[Anonymous]

My boomer parents raised three kids and put them through college, largely on a single income; my mom didn't start working until the late 70's to earn some extra cash but she was by no means a full-time worker. We had two cars and enjoyed a couple of weeks vacation every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One reason I think income inequality is worse today is because of caregiving professions like nursing, teaching, and childcare. These are all professions in great need due to our aging population, households needing 2 full time parents, and more people attending college. Yet, the pay for these professions has not kept up with other sectors. Tons of articles explaining why the cost of things like college and childcare have gone up despite wages for those workers still being low compared to the level of education required.

Expanding on this, there used to be multi-generational households, where grandparents took care of grandchildren during the day and the parents took care of the grandparents in their old age. Also, life expetantcy increases have created a cottage industry of senior dorms where old people go to die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me! You're just angry with his politics, or rather, he destroyed the progressive left stranglehold over the national dialogue through twitter and censorship.

The irony is that going by all polls, the demographics people are talking about on here, including your parents, the modest lower middle class/upper working class, are the demographics flocking to Trump and may give him the victory. They are very angry with the progressive left, particularly the establishment classes, for pretending to care about them when in reality they do nothing. Which is the Democratic party.

The latest poll from ABC/Ipsos was intriguing as it showed 43% saying they were not as well off under Biden as before (presumably under T). While 41% said "about the same" and only 13% said "better off," the 43% is stark because it's the highest % ever - by a substantial amount - saying not well off going back to when the question was first asked in 1986. Very bad numbers for a Democrat who is supposed to care about people, eh?

https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1231a2IntotheElection-.pdf

Musk didn't "found" anything, and he was also born on third base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The BIG differences from the ‘70’s are the cost of college and less access to consumerism/marketing (fewer options and access). Back then, people just had fewer options to buy stuff - no easy access to goods and services. Even to get actual cash you had to go to the bank (no atms). Imagine coming home and having NO media funneling marketing at you - no phone, few TV ads, nothing but one worn monthly fashion magazine filled with goods you had no way of accessing because those items weren’t sold anywhere near you. It was fine.

My Dad worked 5.5 (half day Saturdays ) days a week, left for work before I got up and “ maybe” made it home by dinner. My mom stayed home and cooked from scratch, shopped deals, and cleaned our home. I’m not sure everyone would want this now. Even back then people worked very hard. It’s not all like TV and Dick Van Dyke unless umc territory

Just throwing this into the mix - but parents, especially fathers, spend a lot more time parenting than they did in the 70s. I think that probably involves some economic trade-offs.

Parents today spend a lot more time parenting then back then.

Kids roved around in packs, played pick up (name the sport of the season) and there wasn't all of the helicoptering and organized activities. Parents basically provided meals and a warm home for the most part.

[Anonymous]

Another thing I would just add is labor/union protections and pensions.

The Detroit model was that a single income set up a lifetime autoworker for…life. Meaning pension as well. As fewer and fewer jobs offer pension, workers have to set side a greater proportion of their salaries for individual retirement savings, which means there is simply less money for sending kids to college/a bigger home/more vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me! You're just angry with his politics, or rather, he destroyed the progressive left stranglehold over the national dialogue through twitter and censorship.

The irony is that going by all polls, the demographics people are talking about on here, including your parents, the modest lower middle class/upper working class, are the demographics flocking to Trump and may give him the victory. They are very angry with the progressive left, particularly the establishment classes, for pretending to care about them when in reality they do nothing. Which is the Democratic party.

The latest poll from ABC/Ipsos was intriguing as it showed 43% saying they were not as well off under Biden as before (presumably under T). While 41% said "about the same" and only 13% said "better off," the 43% is stark because it's the highest % ever - by a substantial amount - saying not well off going back to when the question was first asked in 1986. Very bad numbers for a Democrat who is supposed to care about people, eh?

https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1231a2IntotheElection-.pdf

Musk didn't "found" anything, and he was also born on third base.

Regardless, bashing Musk is misplaced. He may have had some resources, but he multiplied them by 1MMx through a lot of his own doing.

Trump on the other hand destroyed value…he was given nearly $500MM by his parents and could have turned that into $20BN+ if all he did was invest that in an S&P index.

At least Musk’s companies have created 10s of thousands of jobs while the Trump companies barely employ more than 100 people.

Also, most of the tech gazillionares are left leaning, so hard to claim much moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure - I lean left, but pragmatically so and I’m often skeptical of some of the maxims of the far left.

One such is - and this is where some of my friends on the populist left beer into Make America Great Again territory in this glorification of the past - the idea that once upon a time, a middle class worker could afford a house in the suburbs and raise kids on a single income.

The rationale behind this nostalgia is that income inequality has grown, and the combination of corporate greed-driven inflation and stagnant wages has lowered the purchasing power of your average workaday nine-to-five bloke, and that only the ultra rich can afford the “American Dream” lifestyle of a single family home with a white picket fence, etc. And that somebody somewhere along the line, probably Ronald Reagan, ruined everything.

While the sentiment resonates with me ideologically, I’d like to take a closer look at some of the assumptions.

First, having a single income generally meant that the woman stayed home. While I’m as feminist as the next person and think women of course should have freedom to work, the trade off is childcare costs.

Second, the middle class “American Dream” of the 1950s was a lot simpler. It’s one thing to acknowledge the insane cost of housing, but even the 50s/60s “keeping up with the Joneses” era didn’t have the same expenses of today. Smartphones and all the tech and gadgets didn’t exist, and overseas vacations were rare.

Third, and this is where I actually don’t know the answer and am asking the audience… to what extent was the “American Dream” affordable to the AVERAGE person, versus an aspiration that could be achieved by competing and moving up the ladder? Maybe in the 1990s? (I say this because I grew up solidly middle class in the 90s, my parents both worked but they had normal jobs, were not executives, didn’t work excessive hours, and could afford a SFH, three cars, summer camps, and the occasional overseas vacation plus Florida).

I DO believe that a) we have a housing crisis, and b) “hustle culture” is toxic. But I do have doubts about the idea that life used to be so much easier and that younger generations have it uniquely hard.

We immigrated to US in 99. My husband’s worked in construction and i stayed at home with our first child. We built our house, and I went to college. We had our second and I stayed at home for 3 years and then went to 9-5 job. We paid off our house in 10 years and purchased a beach house as a vacation spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were greatest generation. My dad graduated high school, was a Marine in WWII, came home and did a few semesters of college. He was a salesman, then a cost accountant. My folks bought a 3/2 ranch home, and added a pool. This is on a the salaries of my dad and my mom, who worked in a department stores sales clerk.

The also put me through college on that salary.

The 1 percenters have wrecked the economy. Not the immigrants. America is built on Immersive. It is the grifters like Trump and Musk who are bankrupting the US.

Musk founded a major multi-billion dollar company that employs thousands of people and makes one of the first new cars on the road since the Big-3 domination. That sounds like very aspirational American to me!

Stipulating that what you said is true, how much less motivated would he have been if the top tax rate on capital gains were say, 50%, instead of 15%? I'd say not at all.

[Anonymous]

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

That house doesn't have wheels. Mine did

[Anonymous]

Ah yes, the 1930's and the 1950's when people of color "knew their place" - such wonderful times.

(There are not enough roll-eye emojis for this)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

There's no such thing as "starter" homes anymore, especially around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1178227.page

There's no such thing as "starter" homes anymore, especially around here.

Condos and townhouses are the new starter home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure - I lean left, but pragmatically so and I’m often skeptical of some of the maxims of the far left.

One such is - and this is where some of my friends on the populist left beer into Make America Great Again territory in this glorification of the past - the idea that once upon a time, a middle class worker could afford a house in the suburbs and raise kids on a single income.

The rationale behind this nostalgia is that income inequality has grown, and the combination of corporate greed-driven inflation and stagnant wages has lowered the purchasing power of your average workaday nine-to-five bloke, and that only the ultra rich can afford the “American Dream” lifestyle of a single family home with a white picket fence, etc. And that somebody somewhere along the line, probably Ronald Reagan, ruined everything.

While the sentiment resonates with me ideologically, I’d like to take a closer look at some of the assumptions.

First, having a single income generally meant that the woman stayed home. While I’m as feminist as the next person and think women of course should have freedom to work, the trade off is childcare costs.

Second, the middle class “American Dream” of the 1950s was a lot simpler. It’s one thing to acknowledge the insane cost of housing, but even the 50s/60s “keeping up with the Joneses” era didn’t have the same expenses of today. Smartphones and all the tech and gadgets didn’t exist, and overseas vacations were rare.

Third, and this is where I actually don’t know the answer and am asking the audience… to what extent was the “American Dream” affordable to the AVERAGE person, versus an aspiration that could be achieved by competing and moving up the ladder? Maybe in the 1990s? (I say this because I grew up solidly middle class in the 90s, my parents both worked but they had normal jobs, were not executives, didn’t work excessive hours, and could afford a SFH, three cars, summer camps, and the occasional overseas vacation plus Florida).

I DO believe that a) we have a housing crisis, and b) “hustle culture” is toxic. But I do have doubts about the idea that life used to be so much easier and that younger generations have it uniquely hard.

I suspect women entering the workforce (essentially doubling the workforce) caused inflationary pressure on the prices of houses (and other goods). What was affordable by a single earner now needs two.

[Anonymous]

My family bought a five bedroom house in 1964 in Springfield,VA for under $25,000. Sold the house ten years later and bought a house in McLean for $37,500.