Why is Friendship Heights so empty and lame?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I have basically never thought twice about what a shopping center looks like if it has stores I want to shop at. I can't be alone in this. Sure, I wouldn't want to live near an ugly one, but I'd still go there. I mean, most malls are hideous but some fill up and some don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad that such a nice area can't support the high-end stores. I loved all the department stores back in the day - the best selection. All supported despite having a thriving Montgomery Mall and White Flint close by.

+1
I grew up here and have great memories of shopping for formal dresses and having nice lunches afterwards with my mom. The week before Christmas my dad and I would go shopping at neimans for my mom. Everything was decorated perfectly for the holidays.

When is the last time you went to a real store for shopping, and then a nice lunch afterwards? And where?

City Center. I do it all the time.

Some of the City Center stores have to lock their doors to avoid being robbed. In Washington DC's premier shopping area, three blocks from the White House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad that such a nice area can't support the high-end stores. I loved all the department stores back in the day - the best selection. All supported despite having a thriving Montgomery Mall and White Flint close by.

+1
I grew up here and have great memories of shopping for formal dresses and having nice lunches afterwards with my mom. The week before Christmas my dad and I would go shopping at neimans for my mom. Everything was decorated perfectly for the holidays.

When is the last time you went to a real store for shopping, and then a nice lunch afterwards? And where?

City Center. I do it all the time.

Some of the City Center stores have to lock their doors to avoid being robbed. In Washington DC's premier shopping area, three blocks from the White House.

Tiffany's can't afford security guards? Not to mention, is it really the "premier shopping area" when 99% of the population can't afford anything sold there? And it is absolutely not "three blocks from the White House."

[Anonymous]

And when these luxury stores were in friendship heights they were robbed as well.

[Anonymous]

If anyone is familiar with Copley Place in Boston - friendship heights could try an emulate a slight smaller scale version of that. A hotel as an anchor plus some high end condo buildings and apartments - all connected by walkways and bridges and access to metro with a combination of luxury and mainstream shopping and retail plus restaurants. Could be really nice with the right plan. Especially nice when weather is bad because everything is connected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

[Anonymous]

Friendship Heights will end up looking like downtown Bethesda - lots of nice apartment buildings, parking garages, and ground floor retail. DC and MD could easily add a few thousand units of housing within a 5 minute walk to the FH Metro station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad that such a nice area can't support the high-end stores. I loved all the department stores back in the day - the best selection. All supported despite having a thriving Montgomery Mall and White Flint close by.

+1
I grew up here and have great memories of shopping for formal dresses and having nice lunches afterwards with my mom. The week before Christmas my dad and I would go shopping at neimans for my mom. Everything was decorated perfectly for the holidays.

When is the last time you went to a real store for shopping, and then a nice lunch afterwards? And where?

City Center. I do it all the time.

Some of the City Center stores have to lock their doors to avoid being robbed. In Washington DC's premier shopping area, three blocks from the White House.

Tiffany's can't afford security guards? Not to mention, is it really the "premier shopping area" when 99% of the population can't afford anything sold there? And it is absolutely not "three blocks from the White House."

Premier is in the same code-language as "exclusive".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad that such a nice area can't support the high-end stores. I loved all the department stores back in the day - the best selection. All supported despite having a thriving Montgomery Mall and White Flint close by.

+1
I grew up here and have great memories of shopping for formal dresses and having nice lunches afterwards with my mom. The week before Christmas my dad and I would go shopping at neimans for my mom. Everything was decorated perfectly for the holidays.

When is the last time you went to a real store for shopping, and then a nice lunch afterwards? And where?

City Center. I do it all the time.

Some of the City Center stores have to lock their doors to avoid being robbed. In Washington DC's premier shopping area, three blocks from the White House.

Tiffany's can't afford security guards? Not to mention, is it really the "premier shopping area" when 99% of the population can't afford anything sold there? And it is absolutely not "three blocks from the White House."

Security guards can't do much. Chanel has been robbed twice in recent months with an armed guard.

[Anonymous]

City Center has always been deeply weird. It’s there because of Qatari politics, not proper market forces.

The Chevy Chase Land Company made a huge blunder when they redid the shopping center. They’ve tried to fix it but you can’t polish a turd. It was the wrong mix of retail in the wrong configuration. They blew it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friendship Heights will end up looking like downtown Bethesda - lots of nice apartment buildings, parking garages, and ground floor retail. DC and MD could easily add a few thousand units of housing within a 5 minute walk to the FH Metro station.

yuck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friendship Heights will end up looking like downtown Bethesda - lots of nice apartment buildings, parking garages, and ground floor retail. DC and MD could easily add a few thousand units of housing within a 5 minute walk to the FH Metro station.

I am sure some people revulse at this prospect, but downtown Bethesda is often bustling especially on weekends and especially during warmer months.

If FH can replicate downtown Bethesda, that would be a big win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.