Why is Friendship Heights so empty and lame?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Possibly crazy, but FH seems like it has areas where a Costco or other popular big box could move in. Seems like the old Lord & Taylor site when you include all the parking (both gargage and uncovered) is a large enough location.

A Costco could really be an anchor to turbocharge the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

In what sense? How is Van Ness a destination? Small businesses and restaurants are really struggling.

What does Tenleytown really have but Target building stores? Maybe I am misunderstanding your post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

just curious, who are the "people" who won't accept a downscale FH? Are you referring to the local residents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

In what sense? How is Van Ness a destination? Small businesses and restaurants are really struggling.

What does Tenleytown really have but Target building stores? Maybe I am misunderstanding your post?

Tenleytown is depressing and increasingly run-down. If that's the model for FH, it won't be an improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

DP. PP isn't talking about "destination retail". PP is talking about Friendship Heights being a place where people live and do the kinds of things people do in places where they live. They wouldn't have to take Metro or drive to Friendship Heights. They would already be there, living there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to Metro over there to buy groceries in 2000-2002. I would also go shopping and see movies. That was when I didn't have a car and lived near the metro. I do now.

Now I do all of that in either:
Downtown Silver Spring,
PG Plaza area

Other places like Beltsville or Annapolis.

It became a commercial center when there was a lot less competition. I would think that the construction on the Red Line which happened for a long time on weekends slowly killed peoples' habits of going there. With no movie theater and groceries near so many more metro stations now, I don't know why people would go over there. Other than for doctors' offices.

Which came first, all the medical offices or the geriatric population? Anyone know the history become why there is such a high concentration of both in FH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was dying before Covid. Expensive stores, no parking.

?? There was plenty of parking!

So where y all this parking you all are talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

DP. PP isn't talking about "destination retail". PP is talking about Friendship Heights being a place where people live and do the kinds of things people do in places where they live. They wouldn't have to take Metro or drive to Friendship Heights. They would already be there, living there.

Pls do not model anything after Tenleytown.

[Anonymous]

A bookstore, a movie theater, a cafe. Missing all of these things and used to have these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

just curious, who are the "people" who won't accept a downscale FH? Are you referring to the local residents?

Combination of property owners and residents. They would fight tooth and nail against a Costco (as mentioned above), which would actually work here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all under construction. They were phasing out the businesses for years so they could redo it all. When it's done, it will be like old times.

Here is the general plan: https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the_1500_units_in_the_friendship_heights_pipeline/21020

Here are the plans for the stretch above old TJ Maxx: https://www.popville.com/2023/06/tishman-speyer-dc-friendship-heights-shopping-mall-mixed-use-mazza-gallerie/

And here is what is in store for across the street where Maggiano's is: https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2022/12/02/friendship-heights-apartments-affordable-housing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Ward 3 residents have seen quite a bit of new "urban vibrancy", "cool" and "edginess" in the past three or four years -- and aren't sure that they quite like the results as crime and disorder have increased substantially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

DP. PP isn't talking about "destination retail". PP is talking about Friendship Heights being a place where people live and do the kinds of things people do in places where they live. They wouldn't have to take Metro or drive to Friendship Heights. They would already be there, living there.

Pls do not model anything after Tenleytown.

Friendship Heights is fundamentally the same thing as Tenleytown so the outcomes are likely going to be the same. You've got the same big ugly road running right down the middle of the district, a metro-station and a ton of over-leveraged transients. That's not a recipe for a world-class destination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stores in friendship heights moved to Bethesda (Williams Sonoma, Anthro, Pottery Barn) or City Center (all the luxury brands). It’s always been an awkward site because the developments were unconnected and it’s relatively unattractive. But when Mazza was in its heyday it was a nice place and a destination. That’s probably 15-20 years ago at this point.

Aesthetics matter. Especially now when online shopping is so easy. You have to make a place attractive to visit and linger. Expanses of concrete, ugly glass and steel buildings, and a major commuter route running right down the middle of it all is going to make this a heavy lift.

Hopefully the development realizes just how bad the situation is rather than just thinking a minor facelift will fix everything. They need to ask, "where will people want to linger?" and not lie to themselves and investors about that.

I wouldn't call tearing down an entire shopping mall -- with plans for similarly drastic changes on the other side of the street -- "a minor facelift".

Yeah, tearing down old ugly buildings and putting up new ugly (and bigger!) buildings on the same commuter road is really just a facelift. What is the draw? Why would someone from outside the neighborhood travel to Friendship Heights? Why would they linger there? Its not on the water, near anything "cool", historic, or in anyway a destination. Friendship Heights being a destination is a historical anomaly, which likely can't continue between online shopping and other parts of the city/region getting their acts together.

If the developers don't have a plan for making Friendship Heights top-notch then they should just plan FH to be smaller and more locally oriented.

People don't need to travel there, because the Maryland portion of FH is the densest CDP in the nation (denser than Manhattan). And the DC portion is going to see a huge uptick in density with the new developments, both in FH and nearby. There's also a little thing called the Metro, which is directly below.

We get it, you don't like the neighborhood based on what it was. Cool. Edgy, even. But maybe you could also wait and see how it turns out instead of suggesting it should just be left for dead.

Are you arguing that the local area alone can sustain destination retail? If so, why is it in a downward spiral now? Even the mid-market stuff.

What is going to get someone to metro (or drive) to Friendship Heights? What is the draw? Are they going to reboot luxury retail or try something else?

Can you even pull off a downtown Bethesda, when downtown Bethesda is just one stop away? Why would you come here if you are coming from the north and passing the real deal?

They really should be looking at Tenleytown and Van Ness as realistic models. Developers won't though, because that would mean a more downscale FH and people can't accept that yet.

just curious, who are the "people" who won't accept a downscale FH? Are you referring to the local residents?

Combination of property owners and residents. They would fight tooth and nail against a Costco (as mentioned above), which would actually work here.

Why would they be against a Costco? The area will never have the quaint urban feel of Georgetown or Old Town or even Bethesda Row with the commuter roads and heavy traffic. I can't see it being full of small local businesses.