Have you broken an early decision contract?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

+1

Your ethical HS counselor simply will not release your transcript to any other schools until you demonstrate you ethically dropped your ED (financial reasons are the only real ethical reason). Otherwise they are screwing over the next 5+ years of students applying from the dishonest kid's HS.

Most HSs/ college counselors re-evaluate their “ethics” when a lawsuit is filed. In fact, ost abandon their ethics once thy receive a sternly worded letter from any attorney.

The 5+ years of kids ahead of mine were not basing their decisions on what was best for my kid. Basic game theory. My kid will do what’s best for them. And I would expect other parents to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I don't think you understand ethics. It's not about repercussions, it's about integrity. Get some.

Don't lie and make your counselor lie on an ED agreement if you don't intend to abide.

It's a business deal, one of the largest ones that most people will ever make on their own behalf. People back out of deals all for better deals all the time. Fortunately there is a contract in place and the aggrevied party is free to exercise rights under the contract. That's the remedy. They don't because everyone involved knows the contracts are worthless.

+1. And colleges will never sue to enforce an ED agreement. Because they don’t want an adverse ruling. Which thy probably would get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

You seem like a PITA and generally unpleasant person, but the truth is I dislike colleges up and down the spectrum of selectivity to fill their classes with athletes (who got a nice financial preread and merit, if they do that) and full pay kids so I dont care if you screw them.

Why "screw full pay kids"? There are plenty that are not wealthy, just lucky enough to have parents who made college savings a priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

The high school college counselor has already sat down with the parents and the students. S/he explained the ramifications of signing the ED contract. Counselor signs it. Student signs it. Of course they are going to be irritated if you come back and say you now don't want to play by the rules.

Withdrawing your ED application BEFORE the school releases acceptances is still "playing by the rules". In fact it benefits everyone--including the university. They can still slot another ED candidate into an ED acceptance. Smart thing to do if your kid for whatever reasons decides the ED school is not for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

You seem like a PITA and generally unpleasant person, but the truth is I dislike colleges up and down the spectrum of selectivity to fill their classes with athletes (who got a nice financial preread and merit, if they do that) and full pay kids so I dont care if you screw them.

Why "screw full pay kids"? There are plenty that are not wealthy, just lucky enough to have parents who made college savings a priority.

+1

Other PP sounds rather uneducated about how financial aid works - if the rich kids did not pay full freight for people like us, there would BE no financial aid. You need to educate yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

The high school college counselor has already sat down with the parents and the students. S/he explained the ramifications of signing the ED contract. Counselor signs it. Student signs it. Of course they are going to be irritated if you come back and say you now don't want to play by the rules.

Withdrawing your ED application BEFORE the school releases acceptances is still "playing by the rules". In fact it benefits everyone--including the university. They can still slot another ED candidate into an ED acceptance. Smart thing to do if your kid for whatever reasons decides the ED school is not for them.

Oh but they don’t want to do that because they want to see if kid gets in somewhere better first. Hence, they NEVER should have applied ED to begin with. It’s why my kid didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

Hear hear. I’m not crying for some school with an endowment when I’m struggling to send my kid to school. I think ED is awful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of someone who broke it. That school put the word out and other schools revoked their offers. Kid did their first year at the local community college.

How does this not violate antitrust? THis is literally what are supposed to be competitors ganging up on the customer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I don't think you understand ethics. It's not about repercussions, it's about integrity. Get some.

Don't lie and make your counselor lie on an ED agreement if you don't intend to abide.

It's a business deal, one of the largest ones that most people will ever make on their own behalf. People back out of deals all for better deals all the time. Fortunately there is a contract in place and the aggrevied party is free to exercise rights under the contract. That's the remedy. They don't because everyone involved knows the contracts are worthless.

+1. And colleges will never sue to enforce an ED agreement. Because they don’t want an adverse ruling. Which thy probably would get.

They don’t need to sue, they can just inform the other school. Acceptances get rescinded with frequency these days for many reasons. And they can also punish the high school by blackballing them for a few cycles,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

You seem like a PITA and generally unpleasant person, but the truth is I dislike colleges up and down the spectrum of selectivity to fill their classes with athletes (who got a nice financial preread and merit, if they do that) and full pay kids so I dont care if you screw them.

Why "screw full pay kids"? There are plenty that are not wealthy, just lucky enough to have parents who made college savings a priority.

+1

Other PP sounds rather uneducated about how financial aid works - if the rich kids did not pay full freight for people like us, there would BE no financial aid. You need to educate yourself.

I’m full pay. We don’t subsidize FA. That’s bullshit. Cost of attendance is pretty much tuition and room and board. FA comes from endowment. Don’t thank us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

+1

Your ethical HS counselor simply will not release your transcript to any other schools until you demonstrate you ethically dropped your ED (financial reasons are the only real ethical reason). Otherwise they are screwing over the next 5+ years of students applying from the dishonest kid's HS.

Most HSs/ college counselors re-evaluate their “ethics” when a lawsuit is filed. In fact, ost abandon their ethics once thy receive a sternly worded letter from any attorney.

The 5+ years of kids ahead of mine were not basing their decisions on what was best for my kid. Basic game theory. My kid will do what’s best for them. And I would expect other parents to do the same.

Whatever it takes to rationalize your complete lack of ethics . . Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

+1

Your ethical HS counselor simply will not release your transcript to any other schools until you demonstrate you ethically dropped your ED (financial reasons are the only real ethical reason). Otherwise they are screwing over the next 5+ years of students applying from the dishonest kid's HS.

Most HSs/ college counselors re-evaluate their “ethics” when a lawsuit is filed. In fact, ost abandon their ethics once thy receive a sternly worded letter from any attorney.

The 5+ years of kids ahead of mine were not basing their decisions on what was best for my kid. Basic game theory. My kid will do what’s best for them. And I would expect other parents to do the same.

Your kid would be kicked out of the high school in this situation, at least at our private. Of course, likely would never had made it in in the first place. Schools want nothing to do with parents like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the ED agreement is not an actual contract and has no backlash if broken. It's a shitty thing to do ethically except for financial reasons, but I give two shits about colleges who employ ED and have a dozen kids back out.

Ron Lieber has asked people/high schools several times in print and in media to come forward with even one black ball story and has never gotten even one legit one.

It's not just the colleges you are affecting though--it's other students.

No it’s not a shitty thing to do and the whole entire process is stupid. If you decide not to attend the schools have plenty of students who will want to take their place so they don’t even need to get kids to commit early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the ED agreement is not an actual contract and has no backlash if broken. It's a shitty thing to do ethically except for financial reasons, but I give two shits about colleges who employ ED and have a dozen kids back out.

Ron Lieber has asked people/high schools several times in print and in media to come forward with even one black ball story and has never gotten even one legit one.

It's not just the colleges you are affecting though--it's other students.

No it’s not a shitty thing to do and the whole entire process is stupid. If you decide not to attend the schools have plenty of students who will want to take their place so they don’t even need to get kids to commit early.

Not! These people breaking ED agreement in late spring while other kids will be deferred, waitlisted or denied while they play games. It’s not like the kid also ED is waiting until May before moving on.