Have you broken an early decision contract?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.

life is not fair. ED will never disappear. However, I do think the CB/Common app should somehow remove applications for those who got an ED1 or ED2 acceptance. If you did not apply for FA, then your ED acceptance must be binding. And if your parents make over $250K, it should be binding no matter what (you are not getting financial aid period). People should not be able to play the game unless they play by the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

Gross. I hope you're a troll--or at least not a parent at my kids' Big-3. If you can hire an attorney, you did not withdraw from ED due to financial reasons. Karma's a B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

+1

Your ethical HS counselor simply will not release your transcript to any other schools until you demonstrate you ethically dropped your ED (financial reasons are the only real ethical reason). Otherwise they are screwing over the next 5+ years of students applying from the dishonest kid's HS.

You likely wouldn't receive your ED acceptance until 12/15. In the meantime, you of course could have applied to many, many EA schools (which you are free to do under ED) as well as UC schools. Also, if you are really paranoid, you could make sure to apply to RD schools by 12/15.

So, there would not be any factual basis for your HS not to release your transcript.

But the majority of schools are in the Common App. So if you get an ED1 acceptance and did not apply for FA (or make more than $250K, a reasonable number to assume you definately are getting no aid), then the common app should pull your other applications, or at least mark them as, "In at ED1 school with no way to withdraw for financial reasons". If you want to play the ED game, then you need to follow the rules. And that means you don't get to keep applications in the pipeline after you have an acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.

life is not fair. ED will never disappear. However, I do think the CB/Common app should somehow remove applications for those who got an ED1 or ED2 acceptance. If you did not apply for FA, then your ED acceptance must be binding. And if your parents make over $250K, it should be binding no matter what (you are not getting financial aid period). People should not be able to play the game unless they play by the rules.

I was thinking the same think. Or if you apply to another school after getting an ED acceptance both the ED school and the school you are applying to are informed. That seems fair. If it was a financial issue then it is up to DC to justify that to the new school they are applying to.

[Anonymous]

I will never understand the drama associated with ED. If you get in and attend, great. If you get in and attend, great. The colleges are happy to take your money no matter what you vhoose.

Ultimately, no matter how great the college is that you get into, success in life is what you do while in college. If people are dishonest, they will always be dishonest and vice versa. At some point they will have to deal with the fallout of this. Don't worry about other people and their actions. Just worry about your own college students and hope they make the most out of their college experience in order to become productive members of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

You are an *sshole. The ethical people decide to withhold applying to ED if they are unsure they will want that school 100%. They don't just choose one and say 'oh well if he gets in somewhere better in April, we will just back out of ED." That is the EXACT point of ED, you are obligated to attend (barring demonstrated financial obligations--not 'I'm a donut hole family that knew we couldn't afford it, but applied anyways." People are so shitty.

It could result in the RD school telling your kid not to come because of "ethics code violation". Much like kids loose their acceptances for racist Social media posts/videos, or get kicked out of college for racist SM posts/videos/actions while in college that violate the college moral code.

I personally would like to see more of that. Just like the kid at our HS who did a racist Prom proposal and put it all over SM---they were expelled/not allowed to attend last month of school or graduation and eventually ended up at CC as their college acceptances were pulled from multiple schools (even the huge state school that virtually everyone is accepted to). Or the student athlete who had racists SM posts and got their University acceptance removed before they even matriculated at one kid's university (made national news).
You are free to do whatever you want, but you have to live with the natural consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I know someone who was accepted ED and didn’t withdraw other applications. When the other acceptances kept coming in including one to a much better school (top 20 private) they went with it. Absolutely no repercussions.

I also know of someone who kept in all of their applications after accepting an ED2 offer (including the ED1 school that had deferred them). AT RD round, they were accepted to the ED1 deferral school - plus another T25 school.

They went back to the ED2 school to say they felt there was a stronger religious community at the ED1 school. The ED2 school allowed it. I don't know what happened with the HS relationship with the ED2 school though - I didn't ask.

This family knew better - they were fully aware that they were supposed to withdraw but they took a chance and took advantage of the system. There was nothing lacking in the community at the ED2 school - the overall percentage of her group was smaller but it isn't tiny - and the school itself is more diverse and celebrates diversity.

She was lucky that school was generous with her. I wish there was a more formal process where schools communicate and don't allow this to happen (I mean - it's the common app - so how hard can it be). This had nothing to do with finances.

I was secretly wishing someone would "out" them to the school they attended.

You want businesses to collude about not competing for certain customers. The system would be easy to create, defending it would be impossible

No - I want the colleges to mark ED applicants who have accepted offers to college board and mark their remaining applications as being no longer valid. Otherwise this is all BS.

That said - I don't think ED is a fair/equitable process. It clearly disadvantages families who need to shop for aid. So maybe change the system to only have EA - or SCEA.

life is not fair. ED will never disappear. However, I do think the CB/Common app should somehow remove applications for those who got an ED1 or ED2 acceptance. If you did not apply for FA, then your ED acceptance must be binding. And if your parents make over $250K, it should be binding no matter what (you are not getting financial aid period). People should not be able to play the game unless they play by the rules.

That seems like it's begging the FTC to take notice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

The high school college counselor has already sat down with the parents and the students. S/he explained the ramifications of signing the ED contract. Counselor signs it. Student signs it. Of course they are going to be irritated if you come back and say you now don't want to play by the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

PP you’re responding to. My kid won’t be applying ED because we need to shop with price in mind. But I don’t fault families for a minute for pulling out of ED decisions if they can’t swing it. Colleges need to fix the process.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

Anything to justify cheating. Whatever your feelings on ED and the lack of ability to shop around, that doesn't make it ok to take advantage of better admission rates under the guise of a binding agreement when you intend to treat it is non-binding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is your kid regretting an ED application? If so, maybe it would be preferable to call them up and see if you can withdraw the application now, before notifications? The ED school could still give the slot to another kid, but once decisions are mailed that ship will have saile.d

Don’t need school’s permission. An ED app can be withdrawn anytime before notification of acceptance.

The high school college counselor has already sat down with the parents and the students. S/he explained the ramifications of signing the ED contract. Counselor signs it. Student signs it. Of course they are going to be irritated if you come back and say you now don't want to play by the rules.

This is not breaking the rules. DS's ED school makes clear that you can change your ED1 app to ED2 or RD anytime before notification of acceptance.

[Anonymous]

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.
report

Your complete lack of ethics is just beyond disgusting. And stop rationalizing your behavior by saying that "everyone is gaming the system" because that is definitely not true. It's just something you say to make yourself feel better. If you were a parent at my kid's school virtually every other parent would shun you for being a selfish axxhole and teaching your kid to be the same. Zero chance that this complete lack of integrity doesn't show up elsewhere in your life, so I would not be surprised if most other adults already steer clear of you.

[Anonymous]

So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just another incidence of selfish, dishonest people.

Lie about race, lie about creating fake non-profits and activities, get someone else to write the essay, lie about intended major, etc, etc. it hues on and on for people that suck and have no qualms about being dishonest.

And usually hurts subsequent students at the dishonest students high school. Which is why most ethical college counselor s won’t play along.

NP. Listen the whole idea of ED is on shaky ethical ground, so let’s not act like colleges are the moral actors and students are the wrong ones. Colleges are businesses and families need to watch out for themselves

+1. I had my kid apply ED to the college where it would matter the most keep RD applications in. He got into a better college in RD and took it. The high school threatened to withhold my kid’s transcript because we waited until May to decline. But, they folded like a paper house in a hurricane once my lawyer got involved. In return, we agreed not to tell people what had happened. But, it’s not like my kid getting in ED to one school and attending a better one was a huge secret. Anyone could do that math. And his peers who hadn’t been as savvy had “suspicions” and were unhappy. Three week from graduation, after which everyone moved on. My kid just moved on to a better college. Never got pushback from the ED school. Apparently a couple kids called the RD school to tattle. But, they looked like bitter rejects from that college— which they were. We never got pushback. I think the HS dealt with them/ alerted him to the presence of out attorney. .

Colleges, selective HSs, other parents and students— everyone is gaming the system for an edge— and counting on “ethics” and “we’ll hurt the kids behind you” to keep the system running. As if the kids ahead of mine would say, “could have gone to an Ivy, but didn’t want to hurt the (then) juniors”. No one does that IRL. Parents talk a big ethical game unless/until they are in a position to trade up after ED. In which case they always do.

If you have a decent lawyer and are willing to back up threats, you can absolutely decline your ED school in May for a better RD. The dirty little secret is that ED is an very anti-competitive practice. Colleges and HSs and college counselors may threaten. But, they won’t follow through if you push it. No one wants that lawsuit, because it has merit. There is a good chance that if it were ever fully litigated, ED would be a thing of the past/ would be struck down. And selective colleges and selective HSs and college counselors need ED, which benefit affluent kids and families and the selective colleges/HSs and college counselors that serve them. They can’t risk that lawsuit going sideways.

IME, put you kids RD applications in before ED decisions, and then just don’t withdraw them. Never hurts to see what all the choices are. And if your kid has a substantially better offer in RD, go for it and don’t let HSs, college counselors and selective colleges bully you into accepting second best. This is the real world and your lawyer will win this fight. And if you have a Stanford (RD) vs WashU or Chicago (ED1) face off, hire the lawyer and send your kid to Stanford.

Your kid should clearly NOT have applied ED. The whole point of the higher admit rate is that it is binding, hence "decision. " How incredibly entitled and unethical to lie and bump another student who was willing to commit just because you could cheat your way to an admit. Your "win" came at a cost to other students who kept their word. "Shopping" is not a viable reason to break an ED agreement.

Your advice stinks. Your "estimation" forgot to include the part where you sign a binding agreement. Just because you can submit an RD app earlier doesn't make it OK to keep it in the mix after ED decisions are out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I don't think you understand ethics. It's not about repercussions, it's about integrity. Get some.

Don't lie and make your counselor lie on an ED agreement if you don't intend to abide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much speculation. The ethics brigade would like it to be true that the school or student faces repercussions for backing out of an ED. This is not the case. Everyone we know that has backed out of ED acceptances for a better school have done so successfully. I’ve never heard of any school tell a student they shouldn’t apply ED to a school because a kid backed out the year before. I’ve never seen a school refuse to release a transcript.

I don't think you understand ethics. It's not about repercussions, it's about integrity. Get some.

Don't lie and make your counselor lie on an ED agreement if you don't intend to abide.

It's a business deal, one of the largest ones that most people will ever make on their own behalf. People back out of deals all for better deals all the time. Fortunately there is a contract in place and the aggrevied party is free to exercise rights under the contract. That's the remedy. They don't because everyone involved knows the contracts are worthless.