Why are we okay with long work hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a teacher but obviously some will have more work, like a English teacher grading essays VS a teacher who uses scantron.

Our English teachers will work with a history teacher so they can have 1 paper which is both graded for history and English … 2 birds with one stone.

There are many ways to lighten the load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

Insufficient sleep.

In what world do people get home from work at 4:30?

Your children stay up until 10?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In pre industrial times people worked pretty much sun up to sun down except Sunday (and the women still worked then, as did people taking care of farm animals) If you’ve ever watched those reality shows where people try to live like that, the work is never ending. It wasn’t until people started getting relatively rich that leisure time became a concept.

One problem I see is that people don’t want to take a pay cut to work less. The reality is that a company has X to spend on labor costs. If people ant to do less, they’ll need to hire more people. And because of roll up costs, cutting your time by 50% means a greater than 50% cut to your wages. Lawyers are among the most common complainers about work hours, but they tend to make a lot of money to work those hours. Is there a market for big law firms to have a position has reauires 900-1000 billable a year but only pays like $125K? I don’t know. Most firms do offer part time to more senior people, and not many take advantage of it.

My grandparents are farmers, they work from 5am to 9am, take brunch, nap and chill, then work from 5pm - 8pm night time. They def do not work from sunrise to sun down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Very helpful. Thank you. Tell us more how labor is such an inconvenience for the owner class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

How do you get in a workout, shower and get ready for work, and get all 3 kids ready between 6-7:30 am? How do they get to school? I assume you’re using before/after care with those work hours. If you’re leaving for work at 8:30 and arriving home by 4:30 then you’re not working a full 40 hour week (assuming half hour commute then you’re working 9-4).

I have 3 kids, work from home full time (meaning I can throw in laundry and meal prep during the day), and have biweekly cleaners, but it still feels like a crunch. How are you handling all laundry, grocery shopping, random home maintenance, etc. on the weekends and managing kid activities? Do you actually go to your kids sports games? Do you have other social events to fit in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

A lot if people don’t function well on 6.5 hours of sleep. It’s great that you do. It sounds like you must have a quick commute and be skipping lunch to be able to work an 8 hour day where you are leaving for work at 7.30/8am and home by 4.30/5pm.

So no one has to pickup or drop off kids? Yeah, that’s halfway to being childless. So your only responsibility for kids is in the evening, and you shift everything to the early morning. 3 kids — yet spouse goes to gym during peak activity time? Do you enforce they all do the same thing at same place? We need both drivers to get our 3 kids to their activities and they aren’t travel sports or anything.

Kids activities are part of your free time. This post is about how 9-5 leaves you with no time after you do life necessities. Kid activities are not a necessity. I just included them in my free time bucket rather than spelling them out because they are how I choose to spend my free time.

As to kid drop off and pick up, I didn’t include spouse’s schedule. We have and now partly had (some kids no longer need it) it. But we chose places close by the house so it’s never been a time suck and we split it based on who is going to be closer and who doesn’t feel like making dinner that day.

Finally, no I am not the poster who claims to work 60 hours a week. But I do have a kid with special needs.

If you’re working 10+ hour days (which is not 9-5) or have a 3 hour commute, you’re not going to have as much free time as I do. But time management and organization certainly improves the likelihood that you will have a satisfactory amount of time to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In pre industrial times people worked pretty much sun up to sun down except Sunday (and the women still worked then, as did people taking care of farm animals) If you’ve ever watched those reality shows where people try to live like that, the work is never ending. It wasn’t until people started getting relatively rich that leisure time became a concept.

One problem I see is that people don’t want to take a pay cut to work less. The reality is that a company has X to spend on labor costs. If people ant to do less, they’ll need to hire more people. And because of roll up costs, cutting your time by 50% means a greater than 50% cut to your wages. Lawyers are among the most common complainers about work hours, but they tend to make a lot of money to work those hours. Is there a market for big law firms to have a position has reauires 900-1000 billable a year but only pays like $125K? I don’t know. Most firms do offer part time to more senior people, and not many take advantage of it.

My grandparents are farmers, they work from 5am to 9am, take brunch, nap and chill, then work from 5pm - 8pm night time. They def do not work from sunrise to sun down.

My. What kind of farmers? How many acres? What do they farm? Any livestock? Any help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

How do you get in a workout, shower and get ready for work, and get all 3 kids ready between 6-7:30 am? How do they get to school? I assume you’re using before/after care with those work hours. If you’re leaving for work at 8:30 and arriving home by 4:30 then you’re not working a full 40 hour week (assuming half hour commute then you’re working 9-4).

I have 3 kids, work from home full time (meaning I can throw in laundry and meal prep during the day), and have biweekly cleaners, but it still feels like a crunch. How are you handling all laundry, grocery shopping, random home maintenance, etc. on the weekends and managing kid activities? Do you actually go to your kids sports games? Do you have other social events to fit in?

How does it feel like a crunch when you have zero commute to work?

By the time kids are in kindergarten, they can go to the bus stop by themselves, so what is with all the worry about pick up and drop off? That phase ends when kids are 5-6.

[Anonymous]

We aren't in our home.

Dh and I both WFH forever.
He works for a European company with great benefits including 25 pto days, 15 sick days for self or kids, and 12 holidays.
I have a very flexible job and can work any 40 hours (many weeks around 35).

We slightly stagger for school drop offs and pick ups, but I work 7:30-3:30 usually and DH 8:30-4:30. I pick up the kids at 3:45 and have everyone home by 4:15pm then DH comes up at 4:30pm.

It was all intentional though and one of us accepted the not highest job offer for the flexibility and the other has just stayed steady and isn't gunning for promotions. We are very happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In pre industrial times people worked pretty much sun up to sun down except Sunday (and the women still worked then, as did people taking care of farm animals) If you’ve ever watched those reality shows where people try to live like that, the work is never ending. It wasn’t until people started getting relatively rich that leisure time became a concept.

One problem I see is that people don’t want to take a pay cut to work less. The reality is that a company has X to spend on labor costs. If people ant to do less, they’ll need to hire more people. And because of roll up costs, cutting your time by 50% means a greater than 50% cut to your wages. Lawyers are among the most common complainers about work hours, but they tend to make a lot of money to work those hours. Is there a market for big law firms to have a position has reauires 900-1000 billable a year but only pays like $125K? I don’t know. Most firms do offer part time to more senior people, and not many take advantage of it.

My grandparents are farmers, they work from 5am to 9am, take brunch, nap and chill, then work from 5pm - 8pm night time. They def do not work from sunrise to sun down.

My. What kind of farmers? How many acres? What do they farm? Any livestock? Any help?

Apple orchard, they do hire one of those plane to spray a few times a year. They kept 2 dozen chicken around. My uncle lives with them, he has his own acrage too. They have better pace for life and more kids compared to my dad who worked 40 hour work week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In pre industrial times people worked pretty much sun up to sun down except Sunday (and the women still worked then, as did people taking care of farm animals) If you’ve ever watched those reality shows where people try to live like that, the work is never ending. It wasn’t until people started getting relatively rich that leisure time became a concept.

One problem I see is that people don’t want to take a pay cut to work less. The reality is that a company has X to spend on labor costs. If people ant to do less, they’ll need to hire more people. And because of roll up costs, cutting your time by 50% means a greater than 50% cut to your wages. Lawyers are among the most common complainers about work hours, but they tend to make a lot of money to work those hours. Is there a market for big law firms to have a position has reauires 900-1000 billable a year but only pays like $125K? I don’t know. Most firms do offer part time to more senior people, and not many take advantage of it.

You mean pre-industrial post-agrarian times. For most of history humans have had FAR more leisure time than we have now.

And for most of human history humans lived in mud huts and died at 30, assuming they survived childhood and childbirth.

You're missing this essential component called civilization. If you want the high quality standard of living that comes with advanced civilization, you gotta work. Mind you, we do have people who manage to live well by the standards of history without working seriously, and they're called people on welfare. At least they still have running water and electricity and McDonalds. But when I look at their lives, it's mostly sad and empty.

You are confusing life expectancy with longevity with lifespan. It is a common error made by those who are used to communicating via talking points and soundbites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

How do you get in a workout, shower and get ready for work, and get all 3 kids ready between 6-7:30 am? How do they get to school? I assume you’re using before/after care with those work hours. If you’re leaving for work at 8:30 and arriving home by 4:30 then you’re not working a full 40 hour week (assuming half hour commute then you’re working 9-4).

I have 3 kids, work from home full time (meaning I can throw in laundry and meal prep during the day), and have biweekly cleaners, but it still feels like a crunch. How are you handling all laundry, grocery shopping, random home maintenance, etc. on the weekends and managing kid activities? Do you actually go to your kids sports games? Do you have other social events to fit in?

How does it feel like a crunch when you have zero commute to work?

By the time kids are in kindergarten, they can go to the bus stop by themselves, so what is with all the worry about pick up and drop off? That phase ends when kids are 5-6.

DP but she literally listed examples of other things that make her life feel like a crunch. And do you think kids are never picked up from or dropped off anywhere other than daycare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

Insufficient sleep.

In what world do people get home from work at 4:30?

Your children stay up until 10?

NP

People who work 7-3:30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In pre industrial times people worked pretty much sun up to sun down except Sunday (and the women still worked then, as did people taking care of farm animals) If you’ve ever watched those reality shows where people try to live like that, the work is never ending. It wasn’t until people started getting relatively rich that leisure time became a concept.

One problem I see is that people don’t want to take a pay cut to work less. The reality is that a company has X to spend on labor costs. If people ant to do less, they’ll need to hire more people. And because of roll up costs, cutting your time by 50% means a greater than 50% cut to your wages. Lawyers are among the most common complainers about work hours, but they tend to make a lot of money to work those hours. Is there a market for big law firms to have a position has reauires 900-1000 billable a year but only pays like $125K? I don’t know. Most firms do offer part time to more senior people, and not many take advantage of it.

My grandparents are farmers, they work from 5am to 9am, take brunch, nap and chill, then work from 5pm - 8pm night time. They def do not work from sunrise to sun down.

My. What kind of farmers? How many acres? What do they farm? Any livestock? Any help?

Apple orchard, they do hire one of those plane to spray a few times a year. They kept 2 dozen chicken around. My uncle lives with them, he has his own acrage too. They have better pace for life and more kids compared to my dad who worked 40 hour work week.

Funny. I know a family that owns a large orchard in PA and it's an around the clock activity. There are quieter times during the year but other times it's closer to 24/7 because that's where the money is made. Every weekends between April and December is at farmers markets, up at 4 to get going. But either way they are not having brunch (as you must know, brunch is quite popular in farm country 😉).

A childhood friend and her husband own a small farm in Vermont and raise livestock that they sell at local farmers markers. They are definitely not having brunch and doing nothing between morning and evening chores. They also have to work part time jobs as farming is rarely profitable.

There's a reason why most people don't want to be farmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

How do you get in a workout, shower and get ready for work, and get all 3 kids ready between 6-7:30 am? How do they get to school? I assume you’re using before/after care with those work hours. If you’re leaving for work at 8:30 and arriving home by 4:30 then you’re not working a full 40 hour week (assuming half hour commute then you’re working 9-4).

I have 3 kids, work from home full time (meaning I can throw in laundry and meal prep during the day), and have biweekly cleaners, but it still feels like a crunch. How are you handling all laundry, grocery shopping, random home maintenance, etc. on the weekends and managing kid activities? Do you actually go to your kids sports games? Do you have other social events to fit in?

As to my morning, I’m married and we share responsibilities. I have everything ready to go and other parent gets kids out in the am. And it only takes me like 20 minutes to shower and be ready for work on a bad day.

Laundry, groceries and home maintenance isn’t that big of a time suck. Hour a week for groceries (I have toilet paper and pet food delivered) and maybe 1.5 for laundry. But I can certainly build that around working on hobbies.

Kids activities are free time as are my social events. They are optional and I don’t consider them work or a chore. So I don’t include that in the “I have no free time because I work 9-5 post.