APS BTS Night - Shocked

[Anonymous]

My kids are now in HS but went through WMS had very very minimal homework. It was whatever they didn’t finish in class. And both felt that pretty much anyone who didn’t completely goof off could complete work in class. They said kids with homework were kids not making use of time available at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s been like this for yea and getting worse. I never saw any homework come from WMS and still don’t see any at Yorktown. My youngest is in private and it’s a night and day difference. She gets homework consistently.

Your kid doesn’t have homework even in HS? My oldest just started 9th grade at another APS HS and has already had a fair bit of homework & has multiple quizzes/tests this coming week to study for. He has gotten some done at school but definitely not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: This is nothing new. Why do you think so many people have left in recent years?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is very specific to each school - we moved from one school to another in the same district and the first school had a no homework policy, the second one has homework every night for 2nd and 4th grades.

Yes; but APS has a districtwide policy now. It's supposed to be the same.

What exactly is that policy?

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/CFGKGR51D2C5/$file/C-6-%20I-11.2%20PIP-1%20Homework%20MARKED%20UP%205_15_22.pdf

Of note. “Equitable” is in the mission statement. Not rigorous or challenging.

Essentially they said “we used to require 30 mins a DAY of reading/homework, now let’s set a max of 30 mins a WEEK” — across all grades with varying original specified times

That's not what this policy says. I don't understand at all where you're getting that. It says 30 minutes per day max in K-2 grade, 45 minutes per day in grade 3, 60 minutes in grades 4 and 5, plus instrument practice. 60 minutes per day plus instrument is significant, I think. There's nothing wrong with this policy.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very specific to each school - we moved from one school to another in the same district and the first school had a no homework policy, the second one has homework every night for 2nd and 4th grades.

Yes; but APS has a districtwide policy now. It's supposed to be the same.

What exactly is that policy?

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/CFGKGR51D2C5/$file/C-6-%20I-11.2%20PIP-1%20Homework%20MARKED%20UP%205_15_22.pdf

Of note. “Equitable” is in the mission statement. Not rigorous or challenging.

Essentially they said “we used to require 30 mins a DAY of reading/homework, now let’s set a max of 30 mins a WEEK” — across all grades with varying original specified times

That's not what this policy says. I don't understand at all where you're getting that. It says 30 minutes per day max in K-2 grade, 45 minutes per day in grade 3, 60 minutes in grades 4 and 5, plus instrument practice. 60 minutes per day plus instrument is significant, I think. There's nothing wrong with this policy.

The policy also says a maximum of 60 minutes of homework per week for each high school course. That's 12 minutes per night per course, assuming five nights of homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are now in HS but went through WMS had very very minimal homework. It was whatever they didn’t finish in class. And both felt that pretty much anyone who didn’t completely goof off could complete work in class. They said kids with homework were kids not making use of time available at school.

Yes, that exactly. Another mom friend used to humble brag how much homework her kid was doing every night. Like it was a badge of honor. I was confused because my kid had the same classes so I asked my child about it and they told me this child gets in trouble for talking or not paying attention all class….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very specific to each school - we moved from one school to another in the same district and the first school had a no homework policy, the second one has homework every night for 2nd and 4th grades.

Yes; but APS has a districtwide policy now. It's supposed to be the same.

What exactly is that policy?

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/CFGKGR51D2C5/$file/C-6-%20I-11.2%20PIP-1%20Homework%20MARKED%20UP%205_15_22.pdf

Of note. “Equitable” is in the mission statement. Not rigorous or challenging.

Essentially they said “we used to require 30 mins a DAY of reading/homework, now let’s set a max of 30 mins a WEEK” — across all grades with varying original specified times

That's not what this policy says. I don't understand at all where you're getting that. It says 30 minutes per day max in K-2 grade, 45 minutes per day in grade 3, 60 minutes in grades 4 and 5, plus instrument practice. 60 minutes per day plus instrument is significant, I think. There's nothing wrong with this policy.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

So I guess it’s not as bad at younger ages, but still a huge reduction.

“ The PIP now states for high school: Grades 9-12: maximum of a total of 60 minutes per week per course; an additional 30 minutes of independent, choice reading each night is recommended. Previously it was “maximum of 30 minutes a night for each course for a total of three hours a night with the understanding that some advanced-level courses may require additional time to complete particularly the reading components to those courses.”

https://www.arlingtonparentsforeducation.org/ape-reports/homework-policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are now in HS but went through WMS had very very minimal homework. It was whatever they didn’t finish in class. And both felt that pretty much anyone who didn’t completely goof off could complete work in class. They said kids with homework were kids not making use of time available at school.

Yes, that exactly. Another mom friend used to humble brag how much homework her kid was doing every night. Like it was a badge of honor. I was confused because my kid had the same classes so I asked my child about it and they told me this child gets in trouble for talking or not paying attention all class….

They should be having instruction and group work in school, maybe project based. Not doing “homework” in school. Why even have that long a class day the , send them outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is very specific to each school - we moved from one school to another in the same district and the first school had a no homework policy, the second one has homework every night for 2nd and 4th grades.

Yes; but APS has a districtwide policy now. It's supposed to be the same.

What exactly is that policy?

https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/CFGKGR51D2C5/$file/C-6-%20I-11.2%20PIP-1%20Homework%20MARKED%20UP%205_15_22.pdf

Of note. “Equitable” is in the mission statement. Not rigorous or challenging.

Essentially they said “we used to require 30 mins a DAY of reading/homework, now let’s set a max of 30 mins a WEEK” — across all grades with varying original specified times

That's not what this policy says. I don't understand at all where you're getting that. It says 30 minutes per day max in K-2 grade, 45 minutes per day in grade 3, 60 minutes in grades 4 and 5, plus instrument practice. 60 minutes per day plus instrument is significant, I think. There's nothing wrong with this policy.

The policy also says a maximum of 60 minutes of homework per week for each high school course. That's 12 minutes per night per course, assuming five nights of homework.

How old are your kids?

HSs are on block schedule so most classes don’t meet 5x/wk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are now in HS but went through WMS had very very minimal homework. It was whatever they didn’t finish in class. And both felt that pretty much anyone who didn’t completely goof off could complete work in class. They said kids with homework were kids not making use of time available at school.

Yes, that exactly. Another mom friend used to humble brag how much homework her kid was doing every night. Like it was a badge of honor. I was confused because my kid had the same classes so I asked my child about it and they told me this child gets in trouble for talking or not paying attention all class….

They should be having instruction and group work in school, maybe project based. Not doing “homework” in school. Why even have that long a class day the , send them outside.

They aren’t doing HW in class. It is class work they aren’t finishing in class and take home. That’s why we are saying there’s no homework. Most kids finish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What grade is your child in OP?

First kid in APS. Going into 2nd.

Glad to hear homework will start in 3rd, thank you!

Why do you want your kid to have homework? That is super weird and out of step with educational best practices.

All those “does homework help” studies are about closing achievement gaps and helping bring kids to standards. And it doesn’t help them because they don’t have support at home and often have other obligations. The equity issue is real.

But for high achieving students, independent practice of learned skills, synthesis of learned knowledge with their own interpreted efforts, and executive exercise and accountability all boosts high performing students as well. So homework is more valuable for those kids who are already high achieving. So if you want to a have a rigorous college ready child, homework is part of that.

Finally a shred of common sense. People parrot these "definitive" social science studies as if they answer everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are now in HS but went through WMS had very very minimal homework. It was whatever they didn’t finish in class. And both felt that pretty much anyone who didn’t completely goof off could complete work in class. They said kids with homework were kids not making use of time available at school.

Yes, that exactly. Another mom friend used to humble brag how much homework her kid was doing every night. Like it was a badge of honor. I was confused because my kid had the same classes so I asked my child about it and they told me this child gets in trouble for talking or not paying attention all class….

They should be having instruction and group work in school, maybe project based. Not doing “homework” in school. Why even have that long a class day the , send them outside.

They aren’t doing HW in class. It is class work they aren’t finishing in class and take home. That’s why we are saying there’s no homework. Most kids finish.

Whatever you call it, it’s kids sitting alone at desk doing work on paper or computer. That could be assigned as homework, and use the time in school more effectively, with hands on work, small group discussion, projects, or even more recess time.

Having some space between when it was taught and practicing later reinforces the learning.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A 2nd grader doesn't need homework. Limit their electronics, let them run around outside with friends, and make sure they read, read, read.

Exactly! They’re already at school for a full day. Why do you need your 7-year old to have homework?

It’s to reinforce the day lesson, and demonstrate competence and understanding independence of the classroom.

It also builds executive function to track, plan, and turn in homework, projects etc. if everything is just pop and do what is told in class, there is no independence required.

This does not need to be done in 2nd grade. These skills can be started in 4th and still be successful. The difference between 2nd and 4th grade is HUGE. The leap in 3rd from "little kid" to "big kid" is insane. Don't rush it.

I think that is kid dependent — ours would have benefited from an earlier start.

You can do all of this at home, without homework. Build in structure, routine and organization to your life early on. Put in place as much as needed. Start with chores. I have one teen who always does hw but can’t seem to do any laundry or find any clothes. That’s my parenting fail.

That's not a substitute for homework.

You don't need a "substitute for homework"

We have covered this. It's not tenable to go from zero homework to sudden homework in middle school. It's much easier and better to learn the executive functioning skills associated with homework when you have one teacher in elem rather than 6 in middle school all assigning different homework assignment. And when the student is adjusting to middle school which is already a big adjustment. I'm a big believer in giving kids the tools they need to succeed - not just sink or swim. I don't think HW in lower elem is good at all but I definitely support some in 4th and 5th for this reason.

Also - HW gives parents a window into how their kids are doing. If kid struggles with math HW parent can then do something about it. Too many schools just push kids along who are struggling and parents have no idea. Standards based grading doesn't help this at all. Sometimes seeing a kid come home and not know how to do the homework is a really big clue that something is off.

My kid has had at least 4 core teachers per grade since 2nd, plus specials teachers. They rotate classes most of elementary school, with different teachers for language arts (sometimes split writing/reading), math, social studies, science and homeroom. They get homework from different classes (including specials) and turn it in with different teachers and on different days. It's a fiction to pretend that kids don't have more than one teacher until MS.

]

are you aware that not all elem schools do it the same way as your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What grade is your child in OP?

First kid in APS. Going into 2nd.

Glad to hear homework will start in 3rd, thank you!

Why do you want your kid to have homework? That is super weird and out of step with educational best practices.

All those “does homework help” studies are about closing achievement gaps and helping bring kids to standards. And it doesn’t help them because they don’t have support at home and often have other obligations. The equity issue is real.

But for high achieving students, independent practice of learned skills, synthesis of learned knowledge with their own interpreted efforts, and executive exercise and accountability all boosts high performing students as well. So homework is more valuable for those kids who are already high achieving. So if you want to a have a rigorous college ready child, homework is part of that.

Homework in high school is part of that. Homework in elementary, especially early elementary, is not. If you want your kid to do some worksheets, assign them yourself. If you want a kid who can take responsibility for their work without nagging, give them chores and make it clear that half the chore is getting it done without reminders.

If you want to know what your kid is doing in school, ask them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What grade is your child in OP?

First kid in APS. Going into 2nd.

Glad to hear homework will start in 3rd, thank you!

Why do you want your kid to have homework? That is super weird and out of step with educational best practices.

All those “does homework help” studies are about closing achievement gaps and helping bring kids to standards. And it doesn’t help them because they don’t have support at home and often have other obligations. The equity issue is real.

But for high achieving students, independent practice of learned skills, synthesis of learned knowledge with their own interpreted efforts, and executive exercise and accountability all boosts high performing students as well. So homework is more valuable for those kids who are already high achieving. So if you want to a have a rigorous college ready child, homework is part of that.

Homework in high school is part of that. Homework in elementary, especially early elementary, is not. If you want your kid to do some worksheets, assign them yourself. If you want a kid who can take responsibility for their work without nagging, give them chores and make it clear that half the chore is getting it done without reminders.

If you want to know what your kid is doing in school, ask them.

it's cute that you think chores at home are a replication for the exec functioning skills of managing homework from multiple classes/teachers in middle school. it's just not.