Spanish Immersion Community Table Session

[Anonymous]

MS and HS location/proximity aren’t as big a deterrent as ES proximity. MS and HS kids can navigate a lot more independently and there are far fewer parental obligations/volunteering at the school site.

Kenmore is a terrible location for the option program until they can address the fundamental issue of traffic flow and buses to the site. Also, making more bus riders across the system isn’t the best from a transportation perspective, especially at a time when it’s a challenge to find drivers.

The increasing density of the S and Central areas of Arlington are also a concern. Moving the option program to a higher growth corridor might mean this program will need to be relocated again in the future. A low growth area, like around Williamsburg, could mean more stability for the program. It’s not like six plexes and CAFs will be popping up soon around WMS, unlike the area zoned Kenmore.

It’s also a large assumption that location in proximity to Latino population will result in more buy-in from that community. Proximity isn’t usually sited as the concern, rather the fundamental desire for their children to gain fluency in English, as quickly as possible. Whether that’s the “right” attitude it’s not really for me to say, but I don’t think moving the program will bolster the Spanish-speaking side of the program. And moving Key didn’t kill the ES program, at least not that I have heard, so I don’t think it would kill the MS program either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

I am not PP. Not sure if those million things they started to do is going to fix some of the kids who are in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade who started under a different curriculum and have had to (if they are lucky enough) get extra support, tutors and go through summer school to try and catch up to grade level. I have zero data to prove it, I just know multiple families along with ours, who have had to provide a lot of extra support over the years. Some have left and some will leave after 5th because of it. Hopefully getting rid of the old curriculum and how they were teaching reading will help along with the 80/20 model. I don't think the program isn't going to make it but there's a lot of feedback from families who are not thrilled with the program. Maybe it's just the circle I'm in or our school, like I said, I don't have data. Just experience with the families I know who attend Immersion.

Surely I will be torched--but, I mean, the elephant in the room here to me is the time spent in virtual school for immersion kids. I would suggest that the immersion program is theoretically the most rigorous elementary program in APS because kids are working to learn all foundational concepts in two languages. And yet, from where I sit, with a 4th grader (who was in kinder when Covid hit) in one of the immersion programs, there has been ZERO dedicated effort to provide any additional support to these kids from the school system. We have supplemented across the board for several years--and yes, this is a privilege, but, our DC is still struggling. And what about all of the kids who cannot independently access additional support? I've advocated to the school board and also emailed our school principal and raised the subject at the school, but, all I get is crickets and nothing changing.

I also have a DC who is in 4th grade now at our neighborhood school after we left immersion. It sucks how things landed but at some point you have to really consider if the program is a right fit for your family. The extra money spent on outside tutoring and watching our child not enjoy learning or having a desire for it really was our sign to get out. We now have a child who is thriving in so many ways. If they want to revaluate adding in Spanish later they can but we are so happy we now have a much better foundation to build on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

I am not PP. Not sure if those million things they started to do is going to fix some of the kids who are in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade who started under a different curriculum and have had to (if they are lucky enough) get extra support, tutors and go through summer school to try and catch up to grade level. I have zero data to prove it, I just know multiple families along with ours, who have had to provide a lot of extra support over the years. Some have left and some will leave after 5th because of it. Hopefully getting rid of the old curriculum and how they were teaching reading will help along with the 80/20 model. I don't think the program isn't going to make it but there's a lot of feedback from families who are not thrilled with the program. Maybe it's just the circle I'm in or our school, like I said, I don't have data. Just experience with the families I know who attend Immersion.

I do think it might be your circle. I am in a different circle (I assume) and everyone I am friends with (and all my kids friends) love the school. My son is now in 6th. He has a core group of about 11 friends. One of them left immersion but I would say the rest of them are largely fluent. I think for every kid that struggles there are plenty of kids that do fine, but I also don't have data. I also do not know anyone that has gone to summer school. I am not sure from your post if you are talking about the English side of things or the Spanish when it comes to reading, but there were APS wide issues with the way reading was taught this is not specific to immersion. As far as Spanish. I do think the curriculum is improving and will hopefully continue to do so. But again, my son's friend's group is largely all English-speaking families and now all at least conversationally fluent. I think that a lot of schools in immersion or out have kids that need extra support with tutors from what I have read on this board. But i think families don't realize how much support they give to English without realizing it (reading books in English, doing simple math in baking in English. Anyway, I am not saying the program is perfect. There is always room for improvement. But I think for every kid struggling there is a kid doing great in the program. When we come to the SOL the immersion schools don't have abnormally low SOLs when compared to other schools so I don't know that there is a glaring problem specific to immersion. But again, who knows! As I said, I also only have my bubble to measure things from and its the opposite of your experience. Data would be lovely to have.

I do think there is a certain type of kid that does well in immersion and a certain that doesn't do well that way. I think that parents and schools would do better to recognize that. If your kid is struggling to learn in one language adding another is probably not the best idea.

Totally agree there are plenty of kids thriving for every child that is having issues. And it does take a certain type of child to be successful in Immersion and not all kids will fall into that category. We will not be continuing the program after elementary. And just to note, there were definitely elementary kids that had to do summer school from the Immersion program. Mine was one of them. Oddly enough, they did not provide summer school in Spanish even though what qualified them for it was in Spanish.

Oh sorry. I didn't mean to say that no one in the school did summer school. Just not in our circle. I was trying to emphasize how bubbles really impact perspective. Sorry about the confusion. Sorry to hear that you won't be continuing.

The schools are not permitted to provide summer schools in Spanish. The summer school program is run by the county not the individual schools. It is a uniform program across schools. The schools do not have an option on what programs to have or not have. That is also why the schools can't provide more resources/special education in Spanish. The state sets up the requirements for this and Spanish is not one of the core classes and thus they don't provide funding/resources for spanish specialized instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

I am not PP. Not sure if those million things they started to do is going to fix some of the kids who are in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade who started under a different curriculum and have had to (if they are lucky enough) get extra support, tutors and go through summer school to try and catch up to grade level. I have zero data to prove it, I just know multiple families along with ours, who have had to provide a lot of extra support over the years. Some have left and some will leave after 5th because of it. Hopefully getting rid of the old curriculum and how they were teaching reading will help along with the 80/20 model. I don't think the program isn't going to make it but there's a lot of feedback from families who are not thrilled with the program. Maybe it's just the circle I'm in or our school, like I said, I don't have data. Just experience with the families I know who attend Immersion.

I do think it might be your circle. I am in a different circle (I assume) and everyone I am friends with (and all my kids friends) love the school. My son is now in 6th. He has a core group of about 11 friends. One of them left immersion but I would say the rest of them are largely fluent. I think for every kid that struggles there are plenty of kids that do fine, but I also don't have data. I also do not know anyone that has gone to summer school. I am not sure from your post if you are talking about the English side of things or the Spanish when it comes to reading, but there were APS wide issues with the way reading was taught this is not specific to immersion. As far as Spanish. I do think the curriculum is improving and will hopefully continue to do so. But again, my son's friend's group is largely all English-speaking families and now all at least conversationally fluent. I think that a lot of schools in immersion or out have kids that need extra support with tutors from what I have read on this board. But i think families don't realize how much support they give to English without realizing it (reading books in English, doing simple math in baking in English. Anyway, I am not saying the program is perfect. There is always room for improvement. But I think for every kid struggling there is a kid doing great in the program. When we come to the SOL the immersion schools don't have abnormally low SOLs when compared to other schools so I don't know that there is a glaring problem specific to immersion. But again, who knows! As I said, I also only have my bubble to measure things from and its the opposite of your experience. Data would be lovely to have.

I do think there is a certain type of kid that does well in immersion and a certain that doesn't do well that way. I think that parents and schools would do better to recognize that. If your kid is struggling to learn in one language adding another is probably not the best idea.

Totally agree there are plenty of kids thriving for every child that is having issues. And it does take a certain type of child to be successful in Immersion and not all kids will fall into that category. We will not be continuing the program after elementary. And just to note, there were definitely elementary kids that had to do summer school from the Immersion program. Mine was one of them. Oddly enough, they did not provide summer school in Spanish even though what qualified them for it was in Spanish.

Oh sorry. I didn't mean to say that no one in the school did summer school. Just not in our circle. I was trying to emphasize how bubbles really impact perspective. Sorry about the confusion. Sorry to hear that you won't be continuing.

The schools are not permitted to provide summer schools in Spanish. The summer school program is run by the county not the individual schools. It is a uniform program across schools. The schools do not have an option on what programs to have or not have. That is also why the schools can't provide more resources/special education in Spanish. The state sets up the requirements for this and Spanish is not one of the core classes and thus they don't provide funding/resources for spanish specialized instruction.

Gotcha. And you are right. Different bubbles make a HUGE difference. Maybe the schools too, not sure. We were at Claremont.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

I am not PP. Not sure if those million things they started to do is going to fix some of the kids who are in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade who started under a different curriculum and have had to (if they are lucky enough) get extra support, tutors and go through summer school to try and catch up to grade level. I have zero data to prove it, I just know multiple families along with ours, who have had to provide a lot of extra support over the years. Some have left and some will leave after 5th because of it. Hopefully getting rid of the old curriculum and how they were teaching reading will help along with the 80/20 model. I don't think the program isn't going to make it but there's a lot of feedback from families who are not thrilled with the program. Maybe it's just the circle I'm in or our school, like I said, I don't have data. Just experience with the families I know who attend Immersion.

Surely I will be torched--but, I mean, the elephant in the room here to me is the time spent in virtual school for immersion kids. I would suggest that the immersion program is theoretically the most rigorous elementary program in APS because kids are working to learn all foundational concepts in two languages. And yet, from where I sit, with a 4th grader (who was in kinder when Covid hit) in one of the immersion programs, there has been ZERO dedicated effort to provide any additional support to these kids from the school system. We have supplemented across the board for several years--and yes, this is a privilege, but, our DC is still struggling. And what about all of the kids who cannot independently access additional support? I've advocated to the school board and also emailed our school principal and raised the subject at the school, but, all I get is crickets and nothing changing.

Sorry this has been your experience. It was a really challenging time to start school -- not to mention a very tough dual language program. We ended up holding our kiddo back a year. I don't know if COVID is to blame or just that DC needed more time to catch up. (We held back after 3rd grade). I am sure you have explored all options, and that of course isn't a popular one. And not one you should have to make because the school system is failing you. However, it did help our DC greatly, along with our wallet with the cost of outside help we were having to pay. Or I should say we were "lucky to be able to pay."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This all feels like another sign the immersion program isn't going to make it.

We turned down our neighborhood school and another lottery school at the start of K because we thought immersion was the way to go for our family. I have been second guessing myself for awhile.

I don't get why people think this. The county and the schools in the past few years has been making huge strides to improve the immersion program. They got a new spanish curriculum, they moved to an 80/20 model, they started outreach to hispanic neighborhoods, they created a task force which made a number of recommendations that the county then adopted. They created new Spanish assessments to better evaluate where kids are. Basically, they have done a million things to support the program lately. They are now moving it out of an overcrowded school to a school with a higher hispanic population and new facilities. WHY is that a sign that the program is not going to make it?

I am not PP. Not sure if those million things they started to do is going to fix some of the kids who are in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th grade who started under a different curriculum and have had to (if they are lucky enough) get extra support, tutors and go through summer school to try and catch up to grade level. I have zero data to prove it, I just know multiple families along with ours, who have had to provide a lot of extra support over the years. Some have left and some will leave after 5th because of it. Hopefully getting rid of the old curriculum and how they were teaching reading will help along with the 80/20 model. I don't think the program isn't going to make it but there's a lot of feedback from families who are not thrilled with the program. Maybe it's just the circle I'm in or our school, like I said, I don't have data. Just experience with the families I know who attend Immersion.

I do think it might be your circle. I am in a different circle (I assume) and everyone I am friends with (and all my kids friends) love the school. My son is now in 6th. He has a core group of about 11 friends. One of them left immersion but I would say the rest of them are largely fluent. I think for every kid that struggles there are plenty of kids that do fine, but I also don't have data. I also do not know anyone that has gone to summer school. I am not sure from your post if you are talking about the English side of things or the Spanish when it comes to reading, but there were APS wide issues with the way reading was taught this is not specific to immersion. As far as Spanish. I do think the curriculum is improving and will hopefully continue to do so. But again, my son's friend's group is largely all English-speaking families and now all at least conversationally fluent. I think that a lot of schools in immersion or out have kids that need extra support with tutors from what I have read on this board. But i think families don't realize how much support they give to English without realizing it (reading books in English, doing simple math in baking in English. Anyway, I am not saying the program is perfect. There is always room for improvement. But I think for every kid struggling there is a kid doing great in the program. When we come to the SOL the immersion schools don't have abnormally low SOLs when compared to other schools so I don't know that there is a glaring problem specific to immersion. But again, who knows! As I said, I also only have my bubble to measure things from and its the opposite of your experience. Data would be lovely to have.

I do think there is a certain type of kid that does well in immersion and a certain that doesn't do well that way. I think that parents and schools would do better to recognize that. If your kid is struggling to learn in one language adding another is probably not the best idea.

Totally agree there are plenty of kids thriving for every child that is having issues. And it does take a certain type of child to be successful in Immersion and not all kids will fall into that category. We will not be continuing the program after elementary. And just to note, there were definitely elementary kids that had to do summer school from the Immersion program. Mine was one of them. Oddly enough, they did not provide summer school in Spanish even though what qualified them for it was in Spanish.

Oh sorry. I didn't mean to say that no one in the school did summer school. Just not in our circle. I was trying to emphasize how bubbles really impact perspective. Sorry about the confusion. Sorry to hear that you won't be continuing.

The schools are not permitted to provide summer schools in Spanish. The summer school program is run by the county not the individual schools. It is a uniform program across schools. The schools do not have an option on what programs to have or not have. That is also why the schools can't provide more resources/special education in Spanish. The state sets up the requirements for this and Spanish is not one of the core classes and thus they don't provide funding/resources for spanish specialized instruction.

Gotcha. And you are right. Different bubbles make a HUGE difference. Maybe the schools too, not sure. We were at Claremont.

We are at Claremont too. I don't know. I think kids are struggling at every school but immersion provides a tougher issue because there are less assessments done and the state doesn't provide support for resources/specialized help/instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did WMS come up as an option from APS or someone on here? I'm trying to follow all this so I know what the heck is going on. Ha-Ha.

WMS is the only school currently under enrolled enough to take immersion and not significantly affect other schools boundaries. So people in the community unhappy with looming middle school boundary changes, mostly Hamm people, are now relentlessly pushing for WMS to take immersion.

[Anonymous]

interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

no recap because they canceled the meeting at the last minute. which is pretty weird

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

no recap because they canceled the meeting at the last minute. which is pretty weird

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they proposed moving it to Hamm instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

no recap because they canceled the meeting at the last minute. which is pretty weird

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they proposed moving it to Hamm instead?

That actually isn’t a bad idea except they are projecting huge growth in nearby AHAH being built (like Queens)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

no recap because they canceled the meeting at the last minute. which is pretty weird

I’ve heard enrollment in WMS was way up this year, something about people leaving private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:interesting debate but am I correct that nobody knows what the actual development is?

Correct.. or no one is saying is they do know

Can someone post a recap for those who weren’t able to watch?

no recap because they canceled the meeting at the last minute. which is pretty weird

Sorry, I thought it might have been addressed/covered during the SB meeting last night.