Legacy? Some are worried it would also mean the end Children of Faculty Admissions Boost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I know two kids of faculty who got into their parent’s elite school in this last round. Both were admitted off the wait list. Both had decent stats but not anything that would have had admission absent a very significant hook. Neither got into any other schools at the same level, though did get into some very good schools, just not same level as the ones where their parents teach.

I can’t see getting worked up about it, but it’s quite obvious to me that being a faculty child is a huge hook.

But they got in off the WL, so even then, not that big of a hook.

What? Getting in off the WL is a HUGE boost. There are thousands of kids who could qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Faculty/staff dependant boost is an employment perk for the parents. This is one of those things that are offered to sweeten the pot like many employees elsewhere who get annual bonuses, travel perks, etc.

Whether or not other hooks go away, this one is very unlikely to go away as it is one perk to help acquire and retain good staff and professors for the institution.

This is silly. The reason to work at an elite institution isn't just to get their kid in. The elite institution is attractive as an employer for the reason is it attractive as a school!

Universities are attractive as employers with the exception that faculty pay is relatively lower than for others with comparable education levels. Many choose to work at universities because the tuition/admissions benefits is an important piece of the overall package. Similarly, many government workers choose public sector jobs--despite lower pay--because they believe in public service, but also because they seek enhanced job security. Take away those benefits and other jobs become more attractive.

Nobody takes that job for the tuition benefit. That’s asinine. They take the job because they worked for years to get a PhD, few other options are available, and 300 other people will take that job if they don’t. Eliminating the tuition/admission benefit will not alter the structure of the academic job market, which has way too many PhDs chasing too few jobs.

Wrong

Yes, all of those sociology PhDs willing to earn nothing as adjuncts will suddenly turn their noses up at tenure track positions. If what you said is correct then we'd expect a waive of exits from professorships when their children graduate, yet it seems like most hold on as long as they possibly can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right, because legacy involves privilege being passed on to the next generation of people based on nothing but their parents’ achievements. Whereas the faculty boost involves…wait, what?

Why do you think you are such a victim? Maybe something you want to consider and assess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Faculty/staff dependant boost is an employment perk for the parents. This is one of those things that are offered to sweeten the pot like many employees elsewhere who get annual bonuses, travel perks, etc.

Whether or not other hooks go away, this one is very unlikely to go away as it is one perk to help acquire and retain good staff and professors for the institution.

This is silly. The reason to work at an elite institution isn't just to get their kid in. The elite institution is attractive as an employer for the reason is it attractive as a school!

Universities are attractive as employers with the exception that faculty pay is relatively lower than for others with comparable education levels. Many choose to work at universities because the tuition/admissions benefits is an important piece of the overall package. Similarly, many government workers choose public sector jobs--despite lower pay--because they believe in public service, but also because they seek enhanced job security. Take away those benefits and other jobs become more attractive.

There are far more PhDs than there are faculty positions. Schools would be fine without the benefit.

But the PhDs in the business world make way more than professors. Reduced/almost free tuition for your kids is a huge perk, especially if they include "transferable benefits" to other universities. Go look at any university website---it's listed in the benefits package in great detail. Remove that and professors would go elsewhere. Same for staff---your janitor can make more almost anywhere else, so can your office admins, etc....but many of them stay because it is a path to affordable college they wouldn't otherwise get. It's a perk of the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the arguments on this thread could also be applied to legacy admissions.

If Legacy goes, then faculty should start assuming that the perks for their kids are next.

These are two completely different things.

Legacy rewards kids for being born to parents who had parents who could afford to send them to an elite college during some pretty sad economic times (and conveniently dodged the draft)

Faculty hook and/or tuition break is an employment benefit - part of a benefits package and a contract. An earned benefit.

1. in both situations, it's kids being rewarded for their parent's accomplishment

2. do you think poor kids get on tenure track? Those professors usually have elite and expensive undergrad degrees as their starting point

No---#1 is false statement. They are being given reduced tuition, which is a benefit of their parent's employment. Many employees offer "scholarships" for employees kids who have at least a 3.X GPA.

What do you mean by #2? Plenty of professors who did not attend elite and expensive undergrads....

Can you point to any that offer 40 or 50k a year?

The tuition benefit has been disappearing for decades, or is becoming increasingly restrictive. Public universities rarely offer these anymore. For private universities, if it's part of the Tuition Exchange network, there is a lot of red tape "trading" spots from university to university and those types of scholarships are not guaranteed. It is not as sweet of a deal as posters in this thread seem to think it is. Lastly, children of faculty want to go to the college of their choice (just like all other high schoolers), and don't want to be limited to the one college in their hometown or a list of colleges dictated by a network.

[Anonymous]

It should be ended already.

Give them employee discount benefit? Yes.

Back door entry? F No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Faculty/staff dependant boost is an employment perk for the parents. This is one of those things that are offered to sweeten the pot like many employees elsewhere who get annual bonuses, travel perks, etc.

Whether or not other hooks go away, this one is very unlikely to go away as it is one perk to help acquire and retain good staff and professors for the institution.

This is silly. The reason to work at an elite institution isn't just to get their kid in. The elite institution is attractive as an employer for the reason is it attractive as a school!

Universities are attractive as employers with the exception that faculty pay is relatively lower than for others with comparable education levels. Many choose to work at universities because the tuition/admissions benefits is an important piece of the overall package. Similarly, many government workers choose public sector jobs--despite lower pay--because they believe in public service, but also because they seek enhanced job security. Take away those benefits and other jobs become more attractive.

There are far more PhDs than there are faculty positions. Schools would be fine without the benefit.

But the PhDs in the business world make way more than professors. Reduced/almost free tuition for your kids is a huge perk, especially if they include "transferable benefits" to other universities. Go look at any university website---it's listed in the benefits package in great detail. Remove that and professors would go elsewhere. Same for staff---your janitor can make more almost anywhere else, so can your office admins, etc....but many of them stay because it is a path to affordable college they wouldn't otherwise get. It's a perk of the job.

Exactly. It isn't about an admissions bump, it's the tuition discount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Faculty/staff dependant boost is an employment perk for the parents. This is one of those things that are offered to sweeten the pot like many employees elsewhere who get annual bonuses, travel perks, etc.

Whether or not other hooks go away, this one is very unlikely to go away as it is one perk to help acquire and retain good staff and professors for the institution.

This is silly. The reason to work at an elite institution isn't just to get their kid in. The elite institution is attractive as an employer for the reason is it attractive as a school!

Universities are attractive as employers with the exception that faculty pay is relatively lower than for others with comparable education levels. Many choose to work at universities because the tuition/admissions benefits is an important piece of the overall package. Similarly, many government workers choose public sector jobs--despite lower pay--because they believe in public service, but also because they seek enhanced job security. Take away those benefits and other jobs become more attractive.

There are far more PhDs than there are faculty positions. Schools would be fine without the benefit.

But the PhDs in the business world make way more than professors. Reduced/almost free tuition for your kids is a huge perk, especially if they include "transferable benefits" to other universities. Go look at any university website---it's listed in the benefits package in great detail. Remove that and professors would go elsewhere. Same for staff---your janitor can make more almost anywhere else, so can your office admins, etc....but many of them stay because it is a path to affordable college they wouldn't otherwise get. It's a perk of the job.

That sounds like a problem for certain departments. Most would be fine without it. Maybe the business school and math departments need different benefits packages from the art history department

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the arguments on this thread could also be applied to legacy admissions.

If Legacy goes, then faculty should start assuming that the perks for their kids are next.

These are two completely different things.

Legacy rewards kids for being born to parents who had parents who could afford to send them to an elite college during some pretty sad economic times (and conveniently dodged the draft)

Faculty hook and/or tuition break is an employment benefit - part of a benefits package and a contract. An earned benefit.

1. in both situations, it's kids being rewarded for their parent's accomplishment

2. do you think poor kids get on tenure track? Those professors usually have elite and expensive undergrad degrees as their starting point

No---#1 is false statement. They are being given reduced tuition, which is a benefit of their parent's employment. Many employees offer "scholarships" for employees kids who have at least a 3.X GPA.

What do you mean by #2? Plenty of professors who did not attend elite and expensive undergrads....

Can you point to any that offer 40 or 50k a year?

The tuition benefit has been disappearing for decades, or is becoming increasingly restrictive. Public universities rarely offer these anymore. For private universities, if it's part of the Tuition Exchange network, there is a lot of red tape "trading" spots from university to university and those types of scholarships are not guaranteed. It is not as sweet of a deal as posters in this thread seem to think it is. Lastly, children of faculty want to go to the college of their choice (just like all other high schoolers), and don't want to be limited to the one college in their hometown or a list of colleges dictated by a network.

+1

The people that cry about acronyms prove that they don't know what really happens at universities - certainly not the top ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such blatant hypocrisy. At elite colleges the professors tend to be self-righteous about social justice & helping the downtrodden. Power to the people!! But threaten THEIR privileges and they respond like Thurston Howell III being offered a wine cooler.

It's not about privilege. It's a benefit/perk of the low paying jobs in academia to get a tuition break for your own kids. Most profs/staff would be just as happy if the tuition break carries over to other schools (and it does at some universities). They want the tuition break that they have been told is a perk of lower paying employment for years. Same with staff----most staff in academia would get paid more outside academia.

This is 100% accurate. I'm a JHU staff member and have been for *mumble* years -- JHU pays for 50% of dependents' undergrad tuition at any accredited school. I have been counting on it in my financial planning and would be royally screwed if that went away! My kid will probably apply to Hopkins because it's a decent fit, but I expect zero admissions boost, just the normal lottery ticket. I assume that perk is reserved for star faculty members. I'm just a middle-level cog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the arguments on this thread could also be applied to legacy admissions.

If Legacy goes, then faculty should start assuming that the perks for their kids are next.

These are two completely different things.

Legacy rewards kids for being born to parents who had parents who could afford to send them to an elite college during some pretty sad economic times (and conveniently dodged the draft)

Faculty hook and/or tuition break is an employment benefit - part of a benefits package and a contract. An earned benefit.

1. in both situations, it's kids being rewarded for their parent's accomplishment

2. do you think poor kids get on tenure track? Those professors usually have elite and expensive undergrad degrees as their starting point

No---#1 is false statement. They are being given reduced tuition, which is a benefit of their parent's employment. Many employees offer "scholarships" for employees kids who have at least a 3.X GPA.

What do you mean by #2? Plenty of professors who did not attend elite and expensive undergrads....

Can you point to any that offer 40 or 50k a year?

The tuition benefit has been disappearing for decades, or is becoming increasingly restrictive. Public universities rarely offer these anymore. For private universities, if it's part of the Tuition Exchange network, there is a lot of red tape "trading" spots from university to university and those types of scholarships are not guaranteed. It is not as sweet of a deal as posters in this thread seem to think it is. Lastly, children of faculty want to go to the college of their choice (just like all other high schoolers), and don't want to be limited to the one college in their hometown or a list of colleges dictated by a network.

A quick perusal of their website shows the 50% tuition remission is still offered at the Big10 university I attended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine in grad school had a parent at a top SLAC. She got into HYP. She said the admissions officers at her parent's SLAC will meet with all the fac brats and help them with their essays, selection, and other aspects of college admissions. Our grad school was ranked much lower than HYP which made me wonder how good her grades were in undergrad. She also did not get particularly good grades in grad school....

And yes she has a famous last name.

Nice person tho.

This happens a lot with top 10/20 schools with strong Med schools or law schools where big name professors exist, and admin helps review app summer (Aug) before submission for pre-read….

Happens a lot. I speak from experience

[Anonymous]

Hmm.
Look at some of these NU grad professors pay. Thank you could research this at any top 25 school and see the same thing for highly regarded professors.
At the top of their career.

https://nonprofitlight.com/il/evanston/northwestern-university

[Anonymous]

The faculty and staff should have some benefit if their dependents go to their institution. This is generally a discount on tuition; it is not room and board anyway.

[Anonymous]

Where does the “should” come from?