See hy do so many want Federal government jobs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stability
No billable hours
No need to do development
Post retirement health insurance and some pension
Mission-driven
As a young attorney, got way more immediate hands-on litigation work than I ever would have at a big firm. I was first-chairing trials within two years.

Being first chair is also a ton of work, though. Are you getting overtime or something when you work nights and weekends to prepare for trial? Also, no need to do development, but do you lost out on not having that skill when/if you move to the private sector?

Also, someone above mentioned a bonus. Feds get bonuses?

Litigators at my former agency got comp time for hours worked over 40 hrs.

Yes, fed get bonuses or awards. I’ve gotten cash and time off awards.

Can the comp time be used hour-for-hour whenever you want? So there is a pot of money for fed lawyers to get discretionary bonuses? Is this true for other fed employees?

I guess if you don't like a law firm environment and don't want to go in-house or can't, fed work pays decently well compared to other gov't work (state or local).

Yes, in general fed employees get bonuses for good performance, but it's not like what you get in a law firm. It's like $1k-$5k max, except maybe for the special pay agencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

Less than 5%. You can see the 2023 annual GS schedule here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/23Tables/pdf/GS.pdf

As you can see, on the regular GS scale, only 15, step 10 makes over $150K base. If you add in locality pay, then most 15, step 7 and higher and 14 step 10 can make over $150K.

https://ourpublicservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FedFigures_19Shutdown.pdf
There are 2.25M federal civilian civil service employees. Nationwide only about 4.2% of the work force is GS-15 and only 8.8% of the work force is GS-14. So about 2% is GS-15, step 7 and higher. Plus about 0.8% of GS-14 step 10. So, only about 2.8% of the work force makes $150K or higher on the GS scale. Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

My spouse is a GS-14, step 10 (non-sup) with locality pay that makes over $150K. They have been in the work force for 33 years, and is one of the most sought after SME. They do the work of about 1.5 others and have way too much work that others won't or can't do, dumped on them. So, they get the high end, but they work very hard for their salary.

Yet somehow they're all on DCUM.

I hate reading "even a dual fed household makes $300k." No! The vast, vast majority don't!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

Less than 5%. You can see the 2023 annual GS schedule here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/23Tables/pdf/GS.pdf

As you can see, on the regular GS scale, only 15, step 10 makes over $150K base. If you add in locality pay, then most 15, step 7 and higher and 14 step 10 can make over $150K.

https://ourpublicservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FedFigures_19Shutdown.pdf
There are 2.25M federal civilian civil service employees. Nationwide only about 4.2% of the work force is GS-15 and only 8.8% of the work force is GS-14. So about 2% is GS-15, step 7 and higher. Plus about 0.8% of GS-14 step 10. So, only about 2.8% of the work force makes $150K or higher on the GS scale. Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

My spouse is a GS-14, step 10 (non-sup) with locality pay that makes over $150K. They have been in the work force for 33 years, and is one of the most sought after SME. They do the work of about 1.5 others and have way too much work that others won't or can't do, dumped on them. So, they get the high end, but they work very hard for their salary.

Yet somehow they're all on DCUM.

I hate reading "even a dual fed household makes $300k." No! The vast, vast majority don't!

NP and DCUM is a pretty small universe of posters when you think about it. I would bet there are less than 300 unique posters on this sub based upon how this site calculates post views. So, if even 0.1% of the federal workforce were posting here it would be 2,500 people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

… Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

This may be an underestimate. Only something like 70% of the federal workforce is on the General Schedule. There are some lower-paid Wage Grade employees, but also all the SES (and SL and ST) and the special pay plans for SEC, Fed, FDIC, plus all the augmentations for medical professionals and IT professionals across many agencies. Most of those other scales exist explicitly to provide higher levels of compensation than the GS. So I suspect there are a lot of highly paid federal employees missed by this data.

There are 7000 SES in the federal government, compared to 50,000 TSA agents. We are skewed in DC since half the SES are here but if you look at the total federal workforce around the world there are a lot more GS7 DOD supply clerks and GS9 VA nurses than high level DC bureaucrats.

Absolutely true. But the finregs have twice as many employees as the SES, and the VHA has hundreds of thousands of employees. Their nurses aren’t all GS9s. They’re mostly on the VN scale and there are almost a hundred thousand of them. Everything over a VN-3 is above $150K a year. That’s something like 5,000 nurses. The Medical Officers are on the VM scale, they’re basically ALL over $150K and there are about 30,000 of them.

So yeah, the GS scale may be only 5% above that threshold and that’s only 75,000 people or something, but when you add in all the other pay scales that might double the total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

… Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

This may be an underestimate. Only something like 70% of the federal workforce is on the General Schedule. There are some lower-paid Wage Grade employees, but also all the SES (and SL and ST) and the special pay plans for SEC, Fed, FDIC, plus all the augmentations for medical professionals and IT professionals across many agencies. Most of those other scales exist explicitly to provide higher levels of compensation than the GS. So I suspect there are a lot of highly paid federal employees missed by this data.

There are 7000 SES in the federal government, compared to 50,000 TSA agents. We are skewed in DC since half the SES are here but if you look at the total federal workforce around the world there are a lot more GS7 DOD supply clerks and GS9 VA nurses than high level DC bureaucrats.

Absolutely true. But the finregs have twice as many employees as the SES, and the VHA has hundreds of thousands of employees. Their nurses aren’t all GS9s. They’re mostly on the VN scale and there are almost a hundred thousand of them. Everything over a VN-3 is above $150K a year. That’s something like 5,000 nurses. The Medical Officers are on the VM scale, they’re basically ALL over $150K and there are about 30,000 of them.

So yeah, the GS scale may be only 5% above that threshold and that’s only 75,000 people or something, but when you add in all the other pay scales that might double the total.

I posted earlier that FedScope lists it at 10%. There is no need for speculation, it’s easy to look through the cube provided here.

https://www.fedscope.opm.gov/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

Less than 5%. You can see the 2023 annual GS schedule here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/23Tables/pdf/GS.pdf

As you can see, on the regular GS scale, only 15, step 10 makes over $150K base. If you add in locality pay, then most 15, step 7 and higher and 14 step 10 can make over $150K.

https://ourpublicservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FedFigures_19Shutdown.pdf
There are 2.25M federal civilian civil service employees. Nationwide only about 4.2% of the work force is GS-15 and only 8.8% of the work force is GS-14. So about 2% is GS-15, step 7 and higher. Plus about 0.8% of GS-14 step 10. So, only about 2.8% of the work force makes $150K or higher on the GS scale. Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

My spouse is a GS-14, step 10 (non-sup) with locality pay that makes over $150K. They have been in the work force for 33 years, and is one of the most sought after SME. They do the work of about 1.5 others and have way too much work that others won't or can't do, dumped on them. So, they get the high end, but they work very hard for their salary.

Yet somehow they're all on DCUM.

I hate reading "even a dual fed household makes $300k." No! The vast, vast majority don't!

We shouldn’t be counting base salaries, but including locality pay. Base salary is not that meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

… Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

This may be an underestimate. Only something like 70% of the federal workforce is on the General Schedule. There are some lower-paid Wage Grade employees, but also all the SES (and SL and ST) and the special pay plans for SEC, Fed, FDIC, plus all the augmentations for medical professionals and IT professionals across many agencies. Most of those other scales exist explicitly to provide higher levels of compensation than the GS. So I suspect there are a lot of highly paid federal employees missed by this data.

There are 7000 SES in the federal government, compared to 50,000 TSA agents. We are skewed in DC since half the SES are here but if you look at the total federal workforce around the world there are a lot more GS7 DOD supply clerks and GS9 VA nurses than high level DC bureaucrats.

Absolutely true. But the finregs have twice as many employees as the SES, and the VHA has hundreds of thousands of employees. Their nurses aren’t all GS9s. They’re mostly on the VN scale and there are almost a hundred thousand of them. Everything over a VN-3 is above $150K a year. That’s something like 5,000 nurses. The Medical Officers are on the VM scale, they’re basically ALL over $150K and there are about 30,000 of them.

So yeah, the GS scale may be only 5% above that threshold and that’s only 75,000 people or something, but when you add in all the other pay scales that might double the total.

I’m sure it does double the total, but we still have around 2 million federal employees and maybe 10% that we’ve found who are SES, finreg, VM, or other special pay above GS. We have as many federal firefighters with really low pay as finreg employees, or border patrol agents, or park rangers. Federal jobs around the country are really different and often cap at a much lower grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stability
No billable hours
No need to do development
Post retirement health insurance and some pension
Mission-driven
As a young attorney, got way more immediate hands-on litigation work than I ever would have at a big firm. I was first-chairing trials within two years.

Being first chair is also a ton of work, though. Are you getting overtime or something when you work nights and weekends to prepare for trial? Also, no need to do development, but do you lost out on not having that skill when/if you move to the private sector?

Also, someone above mentioned a bonus. Feds get bonuses?

Litigators at my former agency got comp time for hours worked over 40 hrs.

Yes, fed get bonuses or awards. I’ve gotten cash and time off awards.

Can the comp time be used hour-for-hour whenever you want? So there is a pot of money for fed lawyers to get discretionary bonuses? Is this true for other fed employees?

I guess if you don't like a law firm environment and don't want to go in-house or can't, fed work pays decently well compared to other gov't work (state or local).

Yes, in general fed employees get bonuses for good performance, but it's not like what you get in a law firm. It's like $1k-$5k max, except maybe for the special pay agencies.

Yup, my bonus was about 2k last year, $4k this year.

And in my previous agency, litigators got hour for hour comp time. Not sure if that’s the norm for other agencies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good pay + benefits. Easy to slide by under the radar.

It’s funny because some people on these boards turn their noses up at federal pay. Other people claim Feds make too much.

The reason people want the jobs is for stability (very difficult to be laid off or fired), and they offer a pension, although it’s not as good of a deal as it used to be.

For me, it's health insurance. I was on my late husband's biglaw plan for decades. It was great. (I saw the recent post about biglaw ceasing to subsidize, but his was subsidized.) I'm shocked at how bad my company's is. The only thing that beats fed retirement healthcare + Medicare is Tricare for life. I'm in a public service field, so realistically, my salary is capped regardless of where I work.

[Anonymous]

Purpose, prestige and peace. Not everyone is driven by money.

[Anonymous]

Stability. Positions in the competitive civil service are usually very stable employment. After an initial probation period (often 1-3 years), it can be very difficult to fire such people. Sadly, this means it is especially attractive to people who know they do not have strong work habits or are less capable than others in their field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

Less than 5%. You can see the 2023 annual GS schedule here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/23Tables/pdf/GS.pdf

As you can see, on the regular GS scale, only 15, step 10 makes over $150K base. If you add in locality pay, then most 15, step 7 and higher and 14 step 10 can make over $150K.

https://ourpublicservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FedFigures_19Shutdown.pdf
There are 2.25M federal civilian civil service employees. Nationwide only about 4.2% of the work force is GS-15 and only 8.8% of the work force is GS-14. So about 2% is GS-15, step 7 and higher. Plus about 0.8% of GS-14 step 10. So, only about 2.8% of the work force makes $150K or higher on the GS scale. Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

My spouse is a GS-14, step 10 (non-sup) with locality pay that makes over $150K. They have been in the work force for 33 years, and is one of the most sought after SME. They do the work of about 1.5 others and have way too much work that others won't or can't do, dumped on them. So, they get the high end, but they work very hard for their salary.

Yet somehow they're all on DCUM.

I hate reading "even a dual fed household makes $300k." No! The vast, vast majority don't!

We shouldn’t be counting base salaries, but including locality pay. Base salary is not that meaningful.

Everyone is including locality pay when they state their salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$150k with lots of leave and not that much stress (in many but not all positions).

What % of feds ever see $150k? I would bet less than 5% or 10%.

Less than 5%. You can see the 2023 annual GS schedule here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/23Tables/pdf/GS.pdf

As you can see, on the regular GS scale, only 15, step 10 makes over $150K base. If you add in locality pay, then most 15, step 7 and higher and 14 step 10 can make over $150K.

https://ourpublicservice.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FedFigures_19Shutdown.pdf
There are 2.25M federal civilian civil service employees. Nationwide only about 4.2% of the work force is GS-15 and only 8.8% of the work force is GS-14. So about 2% is GS-15, step 7 and higher. Plus about 0.8% of GS-14 step 10. So, only about 2.8% of the work force makes $150K or higher on the GS scale. Now, there are other scales, including SE, but even on those scales, guesstimate that only about 1-1.5% of the workforce would be over $150K. I would say it is highly unlikely that there is more than 4% of the workforce that makes over $150K.

My spouse is a GS-14, step 10 (non-sup) with locality pay that makes over $150K. They have been in the work force for 33 years, and is one of the most sought after SME. They do the work of about 1.5 others and have way too much work that others won't or can't do, dumped on them. So, they get the high end, but they work very hard for their salary.

Yet somehow they're all on DCUM.

I hate reading "even a dual fed household makes $300k." No! The vast, vast majority don't!

We shouldn’t be counting base salaries, but including locality pay. Base salary is not that meaningful.

Everyone is including locality pay when they state their salary.

I was referring to someone upstream that mentioned base salaries.

[Anonymous]

I joined the government at $52k eight years ago and through my career ladder now make $116k. I have been 100% remote the entire time but do have to go to meetings outside the home. I have a take home car and all commuting time to those meetings is on the clock and they pay for gas and tolls. I love what I do and am very passionate about the mission. The only downside to my job is that it maxes out at GS-12. If it weren’t for that I would probably stay in the job until full retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stability
No billable hours
No need to do development
Post retirement health insurance and some pension
Mission-driven
As a young attorney, got way more immediate hands-on litigation work than I ever would have at a big firm. I was first-chairing trials within two years.

Being first chair is also a ton of work, though. Are you getting overtime or something when you work nights and weekends to prepare for trial? Also, no need to do development, but do you lost out on not having that skill when/if you move to the private sector?

Also, someone above mentioned a bonus. Feds get bonuses?

Litigators at my former agency got comp time for hours worked over 40 hrs.

Yes, fed get bonuses or awards. I’ve gotten cash and time off awards.

Can the comp time be used hour-for-hour whenever you want? So there is a pot of money for fed lawyers to get discretionary bonuses? Is this true for other fed employees?

I guess if you don't like a law firm environment and don't want to go in-house or can't, fed work pays decently well compared to other gov't work (state or local).

Yes, in general fed employees get bonuses for good performance, but it's not like what you get in a law firm. It's like $1k-$5k max, except maybe for the special pay agencies.

NP. Ours is like 5k max too. Problem is that we all share the same pot in an office, so if the entire office had a great year, everyone's bonus goes down. Ours are normally 2.5% for a 5/5 on our performance standards. 1.5% for a 4/5.

My relative had a rant about our salaries, but she thought we were all getting 20-50k bonuses like our private sector counterparts too. Don't get me wrong, I don't complain about my salary or my bonus. My dh who is also a fed gets $0 in bonus every year. His agency is a top 5 agency and they just don't do bonuses. In the 20 years he's been a fed he's gotten maybe a few hundred dollars.