No, test optional isn’t the reason your kid didn’t get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Sorry - but this is totally off base. Just because schools have institutional priorities doesn't mean they don't value academic excellence. Truth is there are MANY strong students who can succeed at elite schools - not just the ones who fit your 4 categories. Maybe it used to be those categories held more weight, but it doesn't mean it was better. It just means you could predict better on concrete items that could be easily identified and compared. It sucks that admissions is so unpredictable these days - and that it leads to even more applications and more uncertainty. That certainly makes the process more stressful (and frankly to an unhealthy degree) but it doesn't mean the end result is worse for schools or for students who weren't accepted to those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a ZERO SUM GAME.

If a lower score kid got lucky and got in with TO when otherwise wouldn't have even applied, there's another kid with higher score didn't get in.

Admissions person here. FACT: That lower score wasn't lucky, That lower score kid was more interesting.

You can say the same thing about a college football player who runs slowly and can’t lift much weight in NFL combine. Somehow he should be drafted because he is “more interesting.”

If your prodigy presents as dumb as you did right here, there is no mystery about his rejections.

College ain’t the NFL. It’s comparing apples to tampons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rest optional does seem to be a feature of college applications, and not to the benefit of the student. Make sure your high schoolers are getting sleep!

An obtuse response to an obvious typo is not the flex you think.

I disagree. I thought it was a clever response!

At least you are self-identifying as a moron. That’s helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BUT---Test Optional IS the reason your kid got in.

Even with all of that prep they still couldn't get competitive scores and NEVER would have applied, much less gotten in.

And that is a good thing for everyone, especially the colleges

[Anonymous]

Rest shouldn’t be optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain why schools continue to be test optional when the research shows it doesn’t increase the number of URM students and the data published from the latest CDS’s from most T100 schools show that 30 to 50% of students were admitted test optional and statistically, there are not enough URM‘s to explain this difference? Meaning that the majority of tests optional students got in were non-URM’s.

It’s almost like TO has nothing to do with pursuing diversity…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Huh? Are these students just going to not go to college and drop out of the potential work force because they haven't been admitted to a top college?
Lol.
No, they're going to go to other colleges, get educated and they'll do well and learn what they need to learn at the schools they attend. Then they will go on to succeed in the workforce.

You are posting as if their life and their future contribution to society will END if they don't attend a top 15 university.
This thinking is SO WARPED.

No. I am saying that the country's best educational resources should be opened up to the most academically gifted students first. Then to others as space permits because that is better for the country in the long run. Of course these students will do well even if they go to podunk state, but forcing then to go there just because some clueless administrators value "diversity" and want to inefficiently expend a country's scarce resource on less academically gifted students to virtue signal and feel righteous is a terrible social policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The workplace is figuring out that school brands are kind of meaningless -and testing at all levels is on the rise. My daughter is a recruiter in finance and top employers now require a LOT of testing just to get in the door, including personality, math, logic and writing assessments. You can't prep for these tests or take them over again - and there are no accommodations. Candidates (of all races and backgrounds), including the sort of "elite" credentials many DCUMers salivate over here, often bomb or don't get by the tests. Top employers want proof that the candidate is as good as they look on paper, because degrees don't prove much of anything these days.

That testing might be found discriminatory/illegal at some point, too. Especially if it violates ADA compliance.

Huh? How is it illegal to give the candidates tasks to do before you choose a hire? They have to be able to perform the job well or I don't have to hire that candidate.

Pp said with no accommodations. That would be illegal under ADA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Huh? Are these students just going to not go to college and drop out of the potential work force because they haven't been admitted to a top college?
Lol.
No, they're going to go to other colleges, get educated and they'll do well and learn what they need to learn at the schools they attend. Then they will go on to succeed in the workforce.

You are posting as if their life and their future contribution to society will END if they don't attend a top 15 university.
This thinking is SO WARPED.

No. I am saying that the country's best educational resources should be opened up to the most academically gifted students first. Then to others as space permits because that is better for the country in the long run. Of course these students will do well even if they go to podunk state, but forcing then to go there just because some clueless administrators value "diversity" and want to inefficiently expend a country's scarce resource on less academically gifted students to virtue signal and feel righteous is a terrible social policy

Welcome to the United States of America where the best universities are private enterprise and not completely controlled by the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Huh? Are these students just going to not go to college and drop out of the potential work force because they haven't been admitted to a top college?
Lol.
No, they're going to go to other colleges, get educated and they'll do well and learn what they need to learn at the schools they attend. Then they will go on to succeed in the workforce.

You are posting as if their life and their future contribution to society will END if they don't attend a top 15 university.
This thinking is SO WARPED.

No. I am saying that the country's best educational resources should be opened up to the most academically gifted students first. Then to others as space permits because that is better for the country in the long run. Of course these students will do well even if they go to podunk state, but forcing then to go there just because some clueless administrators value "diversity" and want to inefficiently expend a country's scarce resource on less academically gifted students to virtue signal and feel righteous is a terrible social policy

Except no one who matters shares your definition of “academically gifted.”

Hint: it’s certainly not measured by a standardized test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rest shouldn’t be optional.

+1 people undervalue sleep so much

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

Well said!

Some economists may tell you that it is suboptimal to keep investing in a small set of wealthy educated families generation after generation. And that by swapping out some of the "old school" families for some new ones at these elite schools that you succeed in creating a broader set of elite-educated families in the overall population while also injecting excellence into other (great!) schools by adding all those ("displaced") students of wealthy educated families to the community. Most economists will tell you that the "displaced" students have had 18 years of investment poured upon them by their elite families and that THAT matters more than anything else in their long run success. These kids will succeed no matter where they go, as long as they take advantage of opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rest shouldn’t be optional.

+1 people undervalue sleep so much

+2 especially for teens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good kids are getting rejected from top schools, because top schools no longer care about academic excellence as much as they care about "Diversity"
There are very few students who meet ALL of the following criteria
1) Top 1-3% of graduating class
2) 1550 in SATor 35 ACT or higher in test scores
3) National AP scholar.
4) 750 or higher in 2 Subject Tests

These are truly gifted students. All of them could easily be accommodated in the top 15 schools, many times over, but most don't get in, because top schools are obsessed with diversity.

This is a tragedy for this country in the long run, because as any economist will tell you, we are grossly misallocating some of the best resources of our academic institutions on some very questionable talent, instead of focusing them on talent that can benefit the most from them and consequently turbocharge the US economy into the next generation.

But eh. Becoming fat, dumb and careless is probably necessary for the baton to pass from the US to some other nation. That's the way history has worked

A student like you describe would only be rejected from a tiny handful of universities. You seem to view admission to those as a brass ring for a job well done. But I’m pretty confident that same student, if they didn’t feel put upon by not getting into their “dream school” would excel at Michigan State or Ohio State or University of Arizona. If they are truly as exceptional and gifted as you think they are, there is probably nothing that student couldn’t accomplish from these schools that they could from one on the highly rejective ones. What you really seem to want is access into the exclusive club that gets what 95% of applicants can’t have, even if you don’t know if it’s inherently better or not. All over the world countries have exception universities that are not so small as ours are. The scarcity of supply is false. These schools could easily add more seats. Alumni don’t want the schools to broaden access because they want the insularity.

No, they cannot easily "add more seats". At most ivy's kids live on campus all 4 years. Add 500 students per year and you have a huge housing issue. Not to mention classes will be larger, less advising, classes more difficult to get into, etc... an entire list of issues if the infrastructure is not in place. So it won't solve the problem (500 at each is still a dent and most will still get rejected) and doing so with out infratsturce would degrade the experience just look at non T25 schools who have done it recently (Northeastern is one example---grown 3-4K students in last few years without any infrastructure in place---many parents and students are not happy. Many kids cannot land coops, because more students looking coupled with the bad economy is not a good thing, kids cannot get into classes because so many students and they are all registering for classes in case they don't get a coop---which many wont' so they wont be dropping out of the classes to make more space...it's not a good situation when you add students without an infrastructure plan put in place first).

You’re right, only in America are we not smart enough to figure out to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s what happen when schools seek out diversity instead of the best and brightest. Educators only way to close the education gap is to drop the ceiling to the floor.

So admissions become a game of craps.

Racist. Diversity and “best and brightest” aren’t mutually exclusive. They did choose the best and brightest. Obviously the rejects aren’t considered to be among that group.

Facts are not racist. "Diversity" means getting the best from the diversity pool-- not the best overall pool.

I go further and say that "diversity" as it's currently used is RACIST, against Asians. I fully support doing away with affirmative action because of this. You cannot spend decades lying about wanting to welcome all races, only to dismiss achievers of Asian descent and hold them to higher standards than the rest, and materially impact their chances of attaining their full potential due to discrimination in higher education and jobs.

Asians have long supported liberal and progressive policies, but as a voting block, inasmuch as any large and disparate group can be, they do not approve of ALL the left's agenda. Be careful not to take such voting groups for granted all the damm time.

This is going a bit far. When we visited admitted student days at diverse schools - there were FAR more Asians than there were white males. No complaints here....but get real.

Name the schools, please. Because I don't believe you.