Income based fines for traffic camera tickets in DC?

[Anonymous]

The OPs post has come off the rails. I agree with most of you regarding the use of phones, etc while driving. No argument.

Is it fair to have a sliding scale for fines based on income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OPs post has come off the rails. I agree with most of you regarding the use of phones, etc while driving. No argument.

Is it fair to have a sliding scale for fines based on income?

I think it's great, but then I'm a VA driver who doesn't have to pay DC camera fines when ticketed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

[Anonymous]

Remember folks, payment is optional if you're from MD or VA:

http://thenewspaper.com/news/70/7088.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OPs post has come off the rails. I agree with most of you regarding the use of phones, etc while driving. No argument.

Is it fair to have a sliding scale for fines based on income?

NO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember folks, payment is optional if you're from MD or VA:

http://thenewspaper.com/news/70/7088.asp

Yes, it's not even a secret: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/marylanders-and-virginians-owe-75-of-unpaid-dc-photo-tickets-according-to-ddot-and-mva-report/65-021cd138-aab7-4d82-9a9f-c24f2d00d208

So basically this is a new tax on wealthy DC residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

Similar to the way you have to have a license to drive, but you don't (and shouldn't) have to have a license to walk or bike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OPs post has come off the rails. I agree with most of you regarding the use of phones, etc while driving. No argument.

Is it fair to have a sliding scale for fines based on income?

I think it's great, but then I'm a VA driver who doesn't have to pay DC camera fines when ticketed.

Yes but it you get stopped in DC or have an accident in DC you will have problems.

[Anonymous]

Is there a link? If this is true then if there is disparate impact won’t that e evidence of racism ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

NP. It I disagree with the argument you only endanger yourself if you jaywalk. A car might see a pedestrian in its path and try to swerve to avoid. Then hit another car or someone on a sidewalk or a tree. Jaywalking does not only injure the person jaywalking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

NP. It I disagree with the argument you only endanger yourself if you jaywalk. A car might see a pedestrian in its path and try to swerve to avoid. Then hit another car or someone on a sidewalk or a tree. Jaywalking does not only injure the person jaywalking.

DP. 1. Most of what you consider "jaywalking" is actually legal crossing. 2. "Cars" don't see anyone. Drivers see people - or don't see people. 3. Although there are always exceptions, in the vast majority of cases, when a person who's driving hits a person who's walking, the person who's walking is injured, and the people who are in the car are not injured. Even when the crash kills the pedestrian, the person or people in the car are usually uninjured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a link? If this is true then if there is disparate impact won’t that e evidence of racism ?

https://finesandfeesjusticecenter.org/articles/predominantly-black-neighborhoods-in-d-c-bear-the-brunt-of-automated-traffic-enforcement/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

NP. It I disagree with the argument you only endanger yourself if you jaywalk. A car might see a pedestrian in its path and try to swerve to avoid. Then hit another car or someone on a sidewalk or a tree. Jaywalking does not only injure the person jaywalking.

DP. 1. Most of what you consider "jaywalking" is actually legal crossing. 2. "Cars" don't see anyone. Drivers see people - or don't see people. 3. Although there are always exceptions, in the vast majority of cases, when a person who's driving hits a person who's walking, the person who's walking is injured, and the people who are in the car are not injured. Even when the crash kills the pedestrian, the person or people in the car are usually uninjured.

If you are choosing to legally cross on a four lane road not at a red light then I think you are taking your own risks. Whether it’s illegal or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already income based because poor people don't pay the tickets right now.

BTW, for all the super slow drivers out there, you don't get a ticket unless you're going more than 10 over. It's not written into law (like Maryland's tolerance of 12 over is), but DC is on record as saying this is the threshold. I always go 8-9 over on 16th street, where the speed limit is artificially low at 30.

The speed limit is the speed limit. If you speed (and 38-39 in a 30 is speeding by a lot), you're breaking the law. Are there any other laws you routinely break, and does the exemption from obeying laws only apply to you, or does it apply to others, too?

Be careful -- you might fall off your high horse. Do you ever talk on the phone or text while driving? I don't, and I can tell you that my drives down 16th street are filled with people who can't stay in their lanes while going 25 mph, and when I pass them, they're buried in their cell phones. It's too bad the laws about cell phone use while driving are not enforced because, in my experience, the people who can't put down their phones are the far greater menace on the roads.

+1

Everyone is so sanctimonious on this thread. Everyone breaks the law. Ever cross the street not at a cross walk? Cross when the light is green? Drive through a yellow light? You broke the law. You’ve probably also gone over the speed limit. It’s ridiculous to lecture people on slowing down. And I agree, get off your phones. The slowest drivers are ALWAYS staring at their phone.

Speeding in residential areas is not just illegal, it’s incredibly selfish. The chances of seriously injuring or killing a pedestrian or cyclist increase quadratically with speed. Hit a pedestrian at 30mph in a modern SUV and there’s a good chance that they don’t survive. At 20 mph, they’ll be hurting but not dead. Speed limits are not set for the convenience of your driving, but to protect the lives of others. Those who flagrantly disobey them deserve not only fines, but to have their licenses taken off them. You can call me sanctimonious all you want; I can get you the names of plenty of dead pedestrians and cyclists whose lives I wish had been treated with more sanctity. Slow the hell down!

These arguments never have any limiting principle. By this logic, we should set speed limits no higher than 20 mph on every road, including highways. We should also be aggressively ticketing pedestrians who jaywalk (how often is a pedestrian killed when crossing in a crosswalk when they had the walk signal?), and enforcing laws that require bicyclists to stop at stop signs and traffic lights and wear helmets.

Slightly different ideas behind enforcing speed limits and enforcing jaywalking and bike helmet laws. You want to endanger yourself by crossing the street unsafely, I suppose that’s up to you. You want to endanger everyone on the street by driving too fast, that’s not quite the same thing.

NP. It I disagree with the argument you only endanger yourself if you jaywalk. A car might see a pedestrian in its path and try to swerve to avoid. Then hit another car or someone on a sidewalk or a tree. Jaywalking does not only injure the person jaywalking.

DP. 1. Most of what you consider "jaywalking" is actually legal crossing. 2. "Cars" don't see anyone. Drivers see people - or don't see people. 3. Although there are always exceptions, in the vast majority of cases, when a person who's driving hits a person who's walking, the person who's walking is injured, and the people who are in the car are not injured. Even when the crash kills the pedestrian, the person or people in the car are usually uninjured.

If you are choosing to legally cross on a four lane road not at a red light then I think you are taking your own risks. Whether it’s illegal or not.

Now you're shifting the goalposts, eh?

But you're also supporting the PP's point. Pedestrians mostly endanger themselves, drivers mostly endanger other people.

As for me, when I'm driving, I feel like it's my duty to take care not to hit anybody, whether they're crossing legally or illegally, safely or unsafely.