Explain grade inflation to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

UVA doesn't weigh the difference. They are GPA hungry hos. And, they are known for grade inflation themselves.

I think it's telling that in the Princeton review college guide most Ivies post their average GPA of admits as a 3.9 and UVA reports a 4.4. Just the way they report it shows they care about 'off the chart' GPAs w/out care to substance. 4.4 seemed to be the cutoff this cycle--no matter where the kid attended high school/rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

UVA doesn't weigh the difference. They are GPA hungry hos. And, they are known for grade inflation themselves.

I think it's telling that in the Princeton review college guide most Ivies post their average GPA of admits as a 3.9 and UVA reports a 4.4. Just the way they report it shows they care about 'off the chart' GPAs w/out care to substance. 4.4 seemed to be the cutoff this cycle--no matter where the kid attended high school/rigor.

The Ivy League typically doesn't report weighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation is an increase in average grades for a specified grouping over time. Based on this relatively straightforward calculation, there has been grade inflation at both the high school and the college level for decades.

Let’s say, for the sake of this discussion, everything you’ve typed above is true.

Where is the evidence that this is causing any problems at all?

Since you are quoting data to illustrate the condition, you will need to quote data to illustrate the problem.

https://gradeinflation.com/

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-stats-facts/undergraduate-gpa

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/pace-of-grade-inflation-picked-up-during-the-pandemic-study-says/2022/05

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/09/24/new-study-shows-widespread-grade-inflation-high-schools

You've simply posted more evidence that it is true. That was granted to you without debate.

What was asked was evidence that it is a problem. Do you have any?

Was the original thread about explaning evidence to you that there is a problem related to grade inflation? If you actually read the threads, you will see a study that shows grade inflation is occurring similtaneously with a decline in mastery of the subjects studied. That sounds problematic.

I fully understand it "sounds problematic" to you, but where is the evidence it is problematic?

Isn't it possible that colleges are still accepting qualified kids that can do the work and graduate with the same frequency of success? Where is the actual evidence this is creating a problem for anyone?

Most colleges do not have competitive admissions, so what is the definition of qualified? About half take remedial class, which means they are taking classes in college on material that should have been learned in high school.

What you are describing as a non-problem is a lowering of standards. The U.S. outspends all but one OECD country on per student educational spending, but is in the middle of the pack on the PISA educational attainment assessments. The average U.S. student is 3.5 years behind the average Singaporean student in math. Where is your evidence that having grades that don't reflect learning don't have an impact?

I didn't describe it as a "non-problem". I asked for the evidence that it was one by those making that claim. I guess you have none?

The STEM issue you mention is not new by any means and certainly not caused by recent grade inflation, which is the topic of this thread in the college and university forum.

Giving kids grades that don't align with content proficiency masks actual achievement levels and makes grades a poor indicator of student preparation for higher education and for work.

Again, where is the evidence this is causing problems, and for whom?

Let's give them all As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grade inflation is an increase in average grades for a specified grouping over time. Based on this relatively straightforward calculation, there has been grade inflation at both the high school and the college level for decades.

Let’s say, for the sake of this discussion, everything you’ve typed above is true.

Where is the evidence that this is causing any problems at all?

Since you are quoting data to illustrate the condition, you will need to quote data to illustrate the problem.

https://gradeinflation.com/

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-stats-facts/undergraduate-gpa

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/pace-of-grade-inflation-picked-up-during-the-pandemic-study-says/2022/05

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/09/24/new-study-shows-widespread-grade-inflation-high-schools

You've simply posted more evidence that it is true. That was granted to you without debate.

What was asked was evidence that it is a problem. Do you have any?

Was the original thread about explaning evidence to you that there is a problem related to grade inflation? If you actually read the threads, you will see a study that shows grade inflation is occurring similtaneously with a decline in mastery of the subjects studied. That sounds problematic.

I fully understand it "sounds problematic" to you, but where is the evidence it is problematic?

Isn't it possible that colleges are still accepting qualified kids that can do the work and graduate with the same frequency of success? Where is the actual evidence this is creating a problem for anyone?

Most colleges do not have competitive admissions, so what is the definition of qualified? About half take remedial class, which means they are taking classes in college on material that should have been learned in high school.

What you are describing as a non-problem is a lowering of standards. The U.S. outspends all but one OECD country on per student educational spending, but is in the middle of the pack on the PISA educational attainment assessments. The average U.S. student is 3.5 years behind the average Singaporean student in math. Where is your evidence that having grades that don't reflect learning don't have an impact?

I didn't describe it as a "non-problem". I asked for the evidence that it was one by those making that claim. I guess you have none?

The STEM issue you mention is not new by any means and certainly not caused by recent grade inflation, which is the topic of this thread in the college and university forum.

Giving kids grades that don't align with content proficiency masks actual achievement levels and makes grades a poor indicator of student preparation for higher education and for work.

Again, where is the evidence this is causing problems, and for whom?

Let's give them all As.

Typical petulance from a person who clearly cannot answer the question to support their claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

The OP asked about grade inflation, not what is happening during the pandemic. You don't want to accept that grade inflation has been a problem for over 20 years and focusing on weighted GPAs in public schools doesn't address the issue. You can't ignore pre-pandemic grading policies. Yes, the problem has increased in many schools because of pandemic grading policies but even that is not uniform as private and public schools across the nation responded differently to the pandemic from closing schools to only providing P/F grades. Wealthy private AND suburban schools are at the center of the problem, not underperforming city or rural schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

The OP asked about grade inflation, not what is happening during the pandemic. You don't want to accept that grade inflation has been a problem for over 20 years and focusing on weighted GPAs in public schools doesn't address the issue. You can't ignore pre-pandemic grading policies. Yes, the problem has increased in many schools because of pandemic grading policies but even that is not uniform as private and public schools across the nation responded differently to the pandemic from closing schools to only providing P/F grades. Wealthy private AND suburban schools are at the center of the problem, not underperforming city or rural schools.

You use the word "problem"

Yet again I ask: Where is evidence that this is causing problems, and for whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

The OP asked about grade inflation, not what is happening during the pandemic. You don't want to accept that grade inflation has been a problem for over 20 years and focusing on weighted GPAs in public schools doesn't address the issue. You can't ignore pre-pandemic grading policies. Yes, the problem has increased in many schools because of pandemic grading policies but even that is not uniform as private and public schools across the nation responded differently to the pandemic from closing schools to only providing P/F grades. Wealthy private AND suburban schools are at the center of the problem, not underperforming city or rural schools.

You use the word "problem"

Yet again I ask: Where is evidence that this is causing problems, and for whom?

Oh the “evidence lady” again that wants to have out As to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

The OP asked about grade inflation, not what is happening during the pandemic. You don't want to accept that grade inflation has been a problem for over 20 years and focusing on weighted GPAs in public schools doesn't address the issue. You can't ignore pre-pandemic grading policies. Yes, the problem has increased in many schools because of pandemic grading policies but even that is not uniform as private and public schools across the nation responded differently to the pandemic from closing schools to only providing P/F grades. Wealthy private AND suburban schools are at the center of the problem, not underperforming city or rural schools.

You use the word "problem"

Yet again I ask: Where is evidence that this is causing problems, and for whom?

Oh the “evidence lady” again that wants to have out As to everyone.

Oh the "can't support their claim at all" person who responds with pejoratives and strawman arguments because they have no evidence to support their claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good way to assess grade inflation is comparing public and private schools. On average public school kids have higher grades than their private school counterparts. One just grades easier than the other. That said, college admissions often weigh where an applicant is coming from.

No, it isn't. You are mixing apples and oranges in your comparison. Weighting GPAs by itself is not grade inflation. Students getting more A's in weighted AND non-weighted classes is grade inflation.

Academic research to date shows that grade inflation is highest among private schools and wealthy students.

See: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Measuring_Success/LudFDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/prep-schools-grades/
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/grade-inflation-is-greater-in-wealthier-schools-study-says/2017/08
https://www.justiceinschools.org/files/playpen/files/grade_inflation.pdf

Those links are pre-pandemic and so irrelevant to the current situation.

The OP asked about grade inflation, not what is happening during the pandemic. You don't want to accept that grade inflation has been a problem for over 20 years and focusing on weighted GPAs in public schools doesn't address the issue. You can't ignore pre-pandemic grading policies. Yes, the problem has increased in many schools because of pandemic grading policies but even that is not uniform as private and public schools across the nation responded differently to the pandemic from closing schools to only providing P/F grades. Wealthy private AND suburban schools are at the center of the problem, not underperforming city or rural schools.

You use the word "problem"

Yet again I ask: Where is evidence that this is causing problems, and for whom?

You can start here: https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/great-expectations-impact-rigorous-grading-practices-student-achievement

We know from previous survey research that teachers who hold high expectations for all of their students significantly increase the odds that those young people will go on to complete high school and college. One indicator of teachers’ expectations is their approach to grading—specifically, whether they subject students to more or less rigorous grading practices. Unfortunately, “grade inflation” is pervasive in U.S. high schools, as evidenced by rising GPAs even as SAT scores and other measures of academic performance have held stable or fallen. The result is that a “good” grade is no longer a clear marker of knowledge and skills.

Authored by American University’s Seth Gershenson, Great Expectations: The Impact of Rigorous Grading Practices on Student Achievement examines to what extent teachers’ grading standards affect student success. Specifically, this report investigates the following questions:

How do the grading standards of an Algebra I teacher affect content mastery, as measured by student performance on the end-of-course Algebra I exam?
Do the grading standards of an Algebra I teacher impact students’ longer-term performance in subsequent math courses like geometry and Algebra II, and their likelihood of graduating from high school?
Does the impact of an Algebra I teacher’s grading standards vary by student, school, or teacher characteristics? Likewise, what school and teacher characteristics predict teachers’ grading standards?
To address these questions, Gershenson analyzed administrative data for all eighth and ninth grade Algebra I students in North Carolina’s public schools from 2006 to 2016.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated in the late 80s and there used to be final tests worth a good percentage of your grade. There were no "do overs" or late work allowed. Late work was counted as zero. I went to a state college and it was pretty much the same except courses moved much more quickly and there was a ton of reading. My kid, also at a state university, reports the same expectations today.

Why are high schools doing this other than to graduate more people? All my kids learn is that they have another chance and may not try hard enough the first time.

It’s wonderful that schools have evolved In their practices since the 1980s (when I was in high school too). Things are so much better now.

Ok, so now HS and colleges allow you to have do overs. How does that work when you get your first job? When do you learn the skills to get it done correctly the first time?

[Anonymous]

Colleges want the strongest students and are highly motivated to figure out who they are regardless of which high school they attend. Admissions officers are assigned a territory, and part of their job is to understand grading at each of their high schools. When new AOs are hired, they inherit notes from the previous AO. Is it perfect? No. But it works pretty well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If more than half the kids in a class get an A, there is grade inflation. And yes, I understand that there is grade inflation everywhere. Everyone gets a trophy.

But one could infer from such a cynical remark that you don’t believe those As are earned.

The purpose of primary and secondary education is to teach mastery of material. It’s not to generate a bell curve where top grades are rationed. Thinking about top grades as a commodity in this way is bizarre and antiquated. It’s literally Ok if half the class gets and A, even if they get to have retakes the like — because it demonstrates they learned the material. Which is the purpose of education. It’s not a race to learn the material “first” and it’s not like someone had to be “best” at it.

You win the internet for today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If more than half the kids in a class get an A, there is grade inflation. And yes, I understand that there is grade inflation everywhere. Everyone gets a trophy.

But one could infer from such a cynical remark that you don’t believe those As are earned.

The purpose of primary and secondary education is to teach mastery of material. It’s not to generate a bell curve where top grades are rationed. Thinking about top grades as a commodity in this way is bizarre and antiquated. It’s literally Ok if half the class gets and A, even if they get to have retakes the like — because it demonstrates they learned the material. Which is the purpose of education. It’s not a race to learn the material “first” and it’s not like someone had to be “best” at it.

You win the internet for today.

They should lose the internet for today. What studies show is that grades have gone up at the same time that mastery of material has declined. The value of grades to accurately reflect mastery is therefore diminishing.

https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-new-evidence-of-high-school-grade-inflation/