Choir Teacher at a W school takes advantage

[Anonymous]

Here's an MCPS chorus performing for the Obamas. Glad that they don't look schlubby! https://theblackandwhite.net/64605/news/michelle-searle-kim-to-become-whitmans-first-female-choral-director/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The choir lead is being. A jerk, but this a perfect PTA project. My husband is a Cub Scout leader and the pack has a “scout attic” at a nearby church where they have bins of books, belt loops (like Girl Scout badges), uniform pieces, etc. Parents donate outgrown items to the attic and adult leaders offer families items from the attic or provide them if asked.

LOVE this. I'm in the camp of wishing the school provided robes or outfits. But in lieu of that, I'd love it if this became a thing, mostly because I'd want to give old outfits to it. And it could be justified for environmental reasons and not only cost. Maybe it could be a student club and the school could donate a closet. (It could also include items like belts and ties for kids going to job interviews or whatnot.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Choir question: is the chamber choir audition only? Do all the public schools have a non-audition option for singing?

Yes and yes. If you want to belong to the non-auditioned choir that doesn't compete anywhere or perform outside of the school, you are free to do so and you will get school credit.

Nota Bene: The girls are wearing matching necklaces. The choir probably competes up and down the East Coast against other select high school choirs, including private schools whose parents don't whine about outfits. Use your energy and passion to promote fundraisers, but don't take your ire out on music teachers. They deserve more support than that.

Private school parents still complain about outfits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. I am the OP. It’s very real. I wish it was not. My DD loves to sing, so she is in the choir. Just sick of this. My high school had robes.

It’s not real unless you name the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. What is the attire for other MCPS high school choirs? Would be interested I. Hearing of a large expenditure is asked of the parents.

The biggest problem is the grade deduction tied to dress code infringement. It's not allowed.

Performance clothes cost what they cost, but multiple layers needing hemming is NOT practical and parents can definitely complain. A public school chorus should not have more than one performance uniform.

Finally, the teacher should always add a line in their email about the school helping families in need who cannot afford the special outfit. This is a Bethesda-area school with a well-funded PTA. These schools are ready and able to help, but the teacher has to know how to handle that and not pick something completely over the top in the first place.

Yes, but MCPS requires every secondary school to send at least one choir, one band, and one orchestra to “adjudication” every March. One of the criteria the ensembles are judged on is “appearance”. This is an unfunded mandate because MCPS should be purchasing whatever kids are required to wear for the performances like they purchase jerseys for athletics.

It's not unfunded. It's funded out of the MCPS Operating Budget. If your principal doesn't use the money she is supposed to use for the choir, that's on her.

Not any of the original posters but I can say that the $2K budget at my kids HS to cover ALL bands isn’t going far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. What is the attire for other MCPS high school choirs? Would be interested I. Hearing of a large expenditure is asked of the parents.

The biggest problem is the grade deduction tied to dress code infringement. It's not allowed.

Performance clothes cost what they cost, but multiple layers needing hemming is NOT practical and parents can definitely complain. A public school chorus should not have more than one performance uniform.

Finally, the teacher should always add a line in their email about the school helping families in need who cannot afford the special outfit. This is a Bethesda-area school with a well-funded PTA. These schools are ready and able to help, but the teacher has to know how to handle that and not pick something completely over the top in the first place.

Yes, but MCPS requires every secondary school to send at least one choir, one band, and one orchestra to “adjudication” every March. One of the criteria the ensembles are judged on is “appearance”. This is an unfunded mandate because MCPS should be purchasing whatever kids are required to wear for the performances like they purchase jerseys for athletics.

It's not unfunded. It's funded out of the MCPS Operating Budget. If your principal doesn't use the money she is supposed to use for the choir, that's on her.

Not any of the original posters but I can say that the $2K budget at my kids HS to cover ALL bands isn’t going far.

Funding for schools is not equal. Priority is given to Title I schools and schools with higher FARMS rates. Parents at W schools are expected to be able to pay for things such as band and choir outfits. How far the teacher takes these requirements is dependent on how far she/he wants to take the requirements for the self serving image of his/her performance group.

Speak up to the teacher and principal. Such requirements are unnecessary and unacceptable for a public school program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. What is the attire for other MCPS high school choirs? Would be interested I. Hearing of a large expenditure is asked of the parents.

The biggest problem is the grade deduction tied to dress code infringement. It's not allowed.

Performance clothes cost what they cost, but multiple layers needing hemming is NOT practical and parents can definitely complain. A public school chorus should not have more than one performance uniform.

Finally, the teacher should always add a line in their email about the school helping families in need who cannot afford the special outfit. This is a Bethesda-area school with a well-funded PTA. These schools are ready and able to help, but the teacher has to know how to handle that and not pick something completely over the top in the first place.

Yes, but MCPS requires every secondary school to send at least one choir, one band, and one orchestra to “adjudication” every March. One of the criteria the ensembles are judged on is “appearance”. This is an unfunded mandate because MCPS should be purchasing whatever kids are required to wear for the performances like they purchase jerseys for athletics.

It's not unfunded. It's funded out of the MCPS Operating Budget. If your principal doesn't use the money she is supposed to use for the choir, that's on her.

Wrong. MCPS gives a tiny bit of money to each school to pay for transportation to adjudication. MCPS also gives about $5 per kid in instrumental music classes to fund instrument repairs (not guitar). Zero money comes from MCPS for performance attire. Who pays for sports jerseys?

At the local MCPS by jerseys are paid for by kids selling mulch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

Very nice response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. What is the attire for other MCPS high school choirs? Would be interested I. Hearing of a large expenditure is asked of the parents.

The biggest problem is the grade deduction tied to dress code infringement. It's not allowed.

Performance clothes cost what they cost, but multiple layers needing hemming is NOT practical and parents can definitely complain. A public school chorus should not have more than one performance uniform.

Finally, the teacher should always add a line in their email about the school helping families in need who cannot afford the special outfit. This is a Bethesda-area school with a well-funded PTA. These schools are ready and able to help, but the teacher has to know how to handle that and not pick something completely over the top in the first place.

Yes, but MCPS requires every secondary school to send at least one choir, one band, and one orchestra to “adjudication” every March. One of the criteria the ensembles are judged on is “appearance”. This is an unfunded mandate because MCPS should be purchasing whatever kids are required to wear for the performances like they purchase jerseys for athletics.

It's not unfunded. It's funded out of the MCPS Operating Budget. If your principal doesn't use the money she is supposed to use for the choir, that's on her.

Not any of the original posters but I can say that the $2K budget at my kids HS to cover ALL bands isn’t going far.

Funding for schools is not equal. Priority is given to Title I schools and schools with higher FARMS rates. Parents at W schools are expected to be able to pay for things such as band and choir outfits. How far the teacher takes these requirements is dependent on how far she/he wants to take the requirements for the self serving image of his/her performance group.

Speak up to the teacher and principal. Such requirements are unnecessary and unacceptable for a public school program.

Self serving image? Would you say the same for a math teacher going above and beyond to make sure all their student pass standardized tests?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello. I feel our choir teacher in our high school in MCPS is out of line in her demands for concert attire for the kids. She has recently requested different black dresses for the Advanced Treble Choir AND another dress for the Chamber Choir.

Well, I am frustrated by the sheer cost of these outfits. Dresses seem to cost over $100.00 and then an extra $100.00 or more to hem. It seems that this teacher thinks the parents’ are her own private ATM. Now she is considering having the parents pay for a necklace for the outfit.

I understand wanting to look nice but why are there not robes? Or why can’t teacher just choose black dress pants and white blouse?

The kids are going to be inspected with their dresses on on Wednesday. And if they don’t meet her standards of hem one inch above the floor , a grade will be deducted.

If this were a really good choir teacher, I might forgive some of this. Her focus is on what they “ look” like vs a high quality choral program. The teacher frequently misses class and has for years.

We don’t like being used as an ATM. It’s crazy Does anyone else find this standard practice in MCPS choirs? How do we deal with this lunacy?

They aren’t using you as ATM. Not lunacy at all. You can find dresses for as little as $40-$50, just be resourceful! Hem can be done at cleaners for way less than $100. Chill the F out! You’re overreacting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello. I feel our choir teacher in our high school in MCPS is out of line in her demands for concert attire for the kids. She has recently requested different black dresses for the Advanced Treble Choir AND another dress for the Chamber Choir.

Well, I am frustrated by the sheer cost of these outfits. Dresses seem to cost over $100.00 and then an extra $100.00 or more to hem. It seems that this teacher thinks the parents’ are her own private ATM. Now she is considering having the parents pay for a necklace for the outfit.

I understand wanting to look nice but why are there not robes? Or why can’t teacher just choose black dress pants and white blouse?

The kids are going to be inspected with their dresses on on Wednesday. And if they don’t meet her standards of hem one inch above the floor , a grade will be deducted.

If this were a really good choir teacher, I might forgive some of this. Her focus is on what they “ look” like vs a high quality choral program. The teacher frequently misses class and has for years.

We don’t like being used as an ATM. It’s crazy Does anyone else find this standard practice in MCPS choirs? How do we deal with this lunacy?

They aren’t using you as ATM. Not lunacy at all. You can find dresses for as little as $40-$50, just be resourceful! Hem can be done at cleaners for way less than $100. Chill the F out! You’re overreacting.

The name calling applies to you PP, not to OP. OP is spot on with his concerns. Choir classes don't require any financial contribution. None.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

Right, these trips are not requirements. They are like summer camps or any other extracurricular that parents choose for their child, either because they want childcare, or they want to pad your kid's resume for college, or they simply want to make their kid happy. Do kids learn from them? Sure they do, learning in the arts is wonderful. But the learning isn't addressing standards, and these trips aren't required parts of the curriculum. So, parents who want their kids to participate in these extra activities need to pay the cost of them, and part of that cost is the cost of sending chaperones. The idea that teachers, who are putting in plenty of unpaid hour for these trips, should also pay for their own seat on the bus or their own room in the hotel is absurd. I can not think of another profession where people would suggest that.

The dresses for shows that are required for class are different. It sounds like this teacher made a bad choice in choosing an expensive dress that needed expensive hemming. But complaining that a teacher is somehow milking the system for a free trip is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

Right, these trips are not requirements. They are like summer camps or any other extracurricular that parents choose for their child, either because they want childcare, or they want to pad your kid's resume for college, or they simply want to make their kid happy. Do kids learn from them? Sure they do, learning in the arts is wonderful. But the learning isn't addressing standards, and these trips aren't required parts of the curriculum. So, parents who want their kids to participate in these extra activities need to pay the cost of them, and part of that cost is the cost of sending chaperones. The idea that teachers, who are putting in plenty of unpaid hour for these trips, should also pay for their own seat on the bus or their own room in the hotel is absurd. I can not think of another profession where people would suggest that.

The dresses for shows that are required for class are different. It sounds like this teacher made a bad choice in choosing an expensive dress that needed expensive hemming. But complaining that a teacher is somehow milking the system for a free trip is absurd.

Not all parents want or can afford these trips. The teachers choose the trips, and expect the kids to go regardless of cost. At a W school, more families can probably pay, but at other schools not so much. I'm not sending my kid on a $600+ trip when we don't travel at all right now and when we do its as a family.