Choir Teacher at a W school takes advantage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Financial obligations should never be a requirement for a grade. Public education should be free.

Public education should be free and we the people would be taxed to the max!!!!!
Nothing ain’t free!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

Right, these trips are not requirements. They are like summer camps or any other extracurricular that parents choose for their child, either because they want childcare, or they want to pad your kid's resume for college, or they simply want to make their kid happy. Do kids learn from them? Sure they do, learning in the arts is wonderful. But the learning isn't addressing standards, and these trips aren't required parts of the curriculum. So, parents who want their kids to participate in these extra activities need to pay the cost of them, and part of that cost is the cost of sending chaperones. The idea that teachers, who are putting in plenty of unpaid hour for these trips, should also pay for their own seat on the bus or their own room in the hotel is absurd. I can not think of another profession where people would suggest that.

The dresses for shows that are required for class are different. It sounds like this teacher made a bad choice in choosing an expensive dress that needed expensive hemming. But complaining that a teacher is somehow milking the system for a free trip is absurd.

Not all parents want or can afford these trips. The teachers choose the trips, and expect the kids to go regardless of cost. At a W school, more families can probably pay, but at other schools not so much. I'm not sending my kid on a $600+ trip when we don't travel at all right now and when we do its as a family.

As a teacher who chaperones trips I don’t expect kids to go, they are invited to go, and parents can choose just like they choose for all the other extracurriculars.

I am not sure how the fact that you don’t choose to send your kid means I should spend my money on your kids’ trip. It is entirely reasonable for someone who is on a trip for work, whether it’s optional or not, to have their room paid for by their employer, and it’s entirely reasonable for an employer who is offering a paid extra to cover a cost that includes the expense associated with having employees there.

The school trips are considered to be field trips. Do students pay extra for any other class field trips and do teachers take unpaid leave for field trips?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello. I feel our choir teacher in our high school in MCPS is out of line in her demands for concert attire for the kids. She has recently requested different black dresses for the Advanced Treble Choir AND another dress for the Chamber Choir.

Well, I am frustrated by the sheer cost of these outfits. Dresses seem to cost over $100.00 and then an extra $100.00 or more to hem. It seems that this teacher thinks the parents’ are her own private ATM. Now she is considering having the parents pay for a necklace for the outfit.

I understand wanting to look nice but why are there not robes? Or why can’t teacher just choose black dress pants and white blouse?

The kids are going to be inspected with their dresses on on Wednesday. And if they don’t meet her standards of hem one inch above the floor , a grade will be deducted.

If this were a really good choir teacher, I might forgive some of this. Her focus is on what they “ look” like vs a high quality choral program. The teacher frequently misses class and has for years.

We don’t like being used as an ATM. It’s crazy Does anyone else find this standard practice in MCPS choirs? How do we deal with this lunacy?

They aren’t using you as ATM. Not lunacy at all. You can find dresses for as little as $40-$50, just be resourceful! Hem can be done at cleaners for way less than $100. Chill the F out! You’re overreacting.

The name calling applies to you PP, not to OP. OP is spot on with his concerns. Choir classes don't require any financial contribution. None.

Then remove your dear child from choir if can’t afford. Simple! To blame the choir director /teacher for this is absurd. Again, chill the F out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

Right, these trips are not requirements. They are like summer camps or any other extracurricular that parents choose for their child, either because they want childcare, or they want to pad your kid's resume for college, or they simply want to make their kid happy. Do kids learn from them? Sure they do, learning in the arts is wonderful. But the learning isn't addressing standards, and these trips aren't required parts of the curriculum. So, parents who want their kids to participate in these extra activities need to pay the cost of them, and part of that cost is the cost of sending chaperones. The idea that teachers, who are putting in plenty of unpaid hour for these trips, should also pay for their own seat on the bus or their own room in the hotel is absurd. I can not think of another profession where people would suggest that.

The dresses for shows that are required for class are different. It sounds like this teacher made a bad choice in choosing an expensive dress that needed expensive hemming. But complaining that a teacher is somehow milking the system for a free trip is absurd.

Not all parents want or can afford these trips. The teachers choose the trips, and expect the kids to go regardless of cost. At a W school, more families can probably pay, but at other schools not so much. I'm not sending my kid on a $600+ trip when we don't travel at all right now and when we do its as a family.

As a teacher who chaperones trips I don’t expect kids to go, they are invited to go, and parents can choose just like they choose for all the other extracurriculars.

I am not sure how the fact that you don’t choose to send your kid means I should spend my money on your kids’ trip. It is entirely reasonable for someone who is on a trip for work, whether it’s optional or not, to have their room paid for by their employer, and it’s entirely reasonable for an employer who is offering a paid extra to cover a cost that includes the expense associated with having employees there.

Your or the school system should pay. Parents should not have to pay for the teachers trip. Parents are not your employers. The county is. And, if I'm paying extra for something, I'm happy to chip in for a child who cannot afford it but not for a teacher.

No parents are not my employer. Parents are, in this case, for an activity that is not part of the curriculum, customers purchasing a luxury item for their child. Since part of that luxury item is having adequate supervision, parents should pay a price that covers it. The idea that public school budgets should cover your kids' luxury is absurd. The idea that the employees who are doing their job should not only not be paid to do it (because often these trips are during times like spring break or weekends or evenings when teachers are not on the clock) but they should pay to provide your kids with luxuries is the most entitled thing I've heard in a long time.

Teachers are creating the trips and deciding when travel happens. You just want a free trip. It's sad you'd pick an expensive trip that some students cannot go on and you'd rather parents fund you than the kids whose parents cannot afford it that you are deliberately excluding. I'm not paying for a free trip for a teacher. Not my problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiply the fees for uniforms, trips, and other things, the cost becomes excessive especially for families who have multiple children in the school. It’s unnecessary and excessive. Some things run through the school accounts but most don’t. I personally do not believe anyone is financially profiting except for the chosen vendors, however, who would know because there’s no oversight.

Such excessive fees discourage participation for what are public school activities. When trips are involved, students pay for the school staff who chaperone so staff do get the perk of a free trip.

People I know in other businesses not only get their work trips paid for by their employer, they get paid for the days they are on those trips, and they get perks like choosing where to eat and having someone else pay for their food on the trips!

Yes, as a teacher who is using my unpaid leave time to accompany the kids on a trip, I don’t also expect to have to pay for working 16 hour days to make your kids’ trip safe and possible. Suggesting otherwise is like whining that your hotel maid was getting a free “stay” in your hotel room while scrubbing the toilet.

You are a public school (county government) employee. There is no requirement for you to travel to do your job. There’s also no requirement for the curriculum to take students to locations that cost students several thousands of dollars. Trips to Puerto Rico, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans, and NYC are not for educational purposes.

Right, these trips are not requirements. They are like summer camps or any other extracurricular that parents choose for their child, either because they want childcare, or they want to pad your kid's resume for college, or they simply want to make their kid happy. Do kids learn from them? Sure they do, learning in the arts is wonderful. But the learning isn't addressing standards, and these trips aren't required parts of the curriculum. So, parents who want their kids to participate in these extra activities need to pay the cost of them, and part of that cost is the cost of sending chaperones. The idea that teachers, who are putting in plenty of unpaid hour for these trips, should also pay for their own seat on the bus or their own room in the hotel is absurd. I can not think of another profession where people would suggest that.

The dresses for shows that are required for class are different. It sounds like this teacher made a bad choice in choosing an expensive dress that needed expensive hemming. But complaining that a teacher is somehow milking the system for a free trip is absurd.

Not all parents want or can afford these trips. The teachers choose the trips, and expect the kids to go regardless of cost. At a W school, more families can probably pay, but at other schools not so much. I'm not sending my kid on a $600+ trip when we don't travel at all right now and when we do its as a family.

As a teacher who chaperones trips I don’t expect kids to go, they are invited to go, and parents can choose just like they choose for all the other extracurriculars.

I am not sure how the fact that you don’t choose to send your kid means I should spend my money on your kids’ trip. It is entirely reasonable for someone who is on a trip for work, whether it’s optional or not, to have their room paid for by their employer, and it’s entirely reasonable for an employer who is offering a paid extra to cover a cost that includes the expense associated with having employees there.

Your or the school system should pay. Parents should not have to pay for the teachers trip. Parents are not your employers. The county is. And, if I'm paying extra for something, I'm happy to chip in for a child who cannot afford it but not for a teacher.

No parents are not my employer. Parents are, in this case, for an activity that is not part of the curriculum, customers purchasing a luxury item for their child. Since part of that luxury item is having adequate supervision, parents should pay a price that covers it. The idea that public school budgets should cover your kids' luxury is absurd. The idea that the employees who are doing their job should not only not be paid to do it (because often these trips are during times like spring break or weekends or evenings when teachers are not on the clock) but they should pay to provide your kids with luxuries is the most entitled thing I've heard in a long time.

You obviously have not had a child in the programs parents are discussing. The trips are during times school is in session - not Spring Break. At our school, the Principal and APs go in addition to the band, orchestra, and chorus teachers.

I think there are performance opportunities in the metro area that would be equally beneficial with less expense. The extravagant trips and dress requirements are driven by teachers who don’t take into consideration the price students are being asked to pay.

It's absurd to expect parents to pay extra for a trip to fund the administrators and teachers as well as high-cost outfits. You are right, there are plenty of local opportunities. We do private orchestras and they are pricy but don't have these absurd requirements. And they have scholarships for those who cannot afford it.

[Anonymous]

This should not be happening. I’m a public school teacher and for concerts the kids have to wear black slacks and a white shirt or something by similar. Colors only. Anything else is fine. Teacher is way out of line