Shen Yun warning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

If some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs, do you think Kennedy Center should allow them on the stage in the name of freedom of speech? Where do you draw the line?

I mean, should it stage Jesus Christ Superstar?

It has.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

You clearly make a confusion between your freedom of speech and my freedom to choose whether I support your speech or not. You have the right to blabber all the nonsense you want, but that doesn't give you the right to force your nonsense down my throat. Moreover, make me pay for it. I paid for a cultural experience, I should not have to listen to religious indoctrination. If you believe that your freedom of religion means that you have the right to deceive me and pay for your religious indoctrination, you need to find another country.

How did they force you to pay? How did they force you to listen to it?

They use deceiving advertisement to sell tickets. Once I was in the concert hall, (believe it or not) I could hear what they were saying. To be honest, I was reading from the screen because I don't understand Chinese.

Deceiving advertising? At best you have a consumer protection issue, not a freedom of speech issue. But advertising has so much wiggle room; you don’t have to disclose everything about your product, so long as what you do disclose is not a lie. Sorry you were caught unaware, but I don’t think there’s anything you can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen the adds for years and I finally googled the name. Everything I read was positive and I decided to give it a shot. What can go wrong in a show presented in a prestigious cultural venue like Kennedy Center? Big mistake. Relatively early in the show you learn that "Between atheism and evolution, Satan lurks." Close to the end, they make sure to send the message again: "Atheism and evolution are the Devil's deceit." As atheist and scientist, I was shocked that I ended up supporting a fundamentalist religious group, while the show is advertised as a Chinese cultural experience. I am not sure what options I have at this point, but I don't want to just let it go.

How did you feel with a show like Wicked? Or The book or Mormon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

If some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs, do you think Kennedy Center should allow them on the stage in the name of freedom of speech? Where do you draw the line?

Sure. If someone wrote a musical about moon deniers and it was high enough quality production, why not?

I noticed that you changed the wording from "some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs" to "someone wrote a musical about moon deniers." Why would you twist my words?

Uh, because the Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue?

I am still waiting for your explanation for how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter. Are you planning to address that anytime soon?

So you twist my words because Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue? What kind of logic is that? This is actually a logical fallacy called straw man.

[Anonymous]

Wait, I thought this was going to be a thread warning us not to give money to a cult.

You're literally just offended by religious content onstage? You need to research every event you attend much more closely! There are many religions and they inform a huge swatch of art and culture and aren't always explicitly called out in the advertising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

Do you think Twitter can ban Donald Trump from their platform?

Pp here. Of course it can. What a completely bizarre whataboutism tangent. How is it relevant? Is Twitter also authorized by an Act of Congress? Does it also receive federal funding?

Please explain more how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter? I am genuinely curious to hear your explanation.

I was not really thinking about Twitter being authorized by an act of Congress or receiving federal funding. I was thinking that both can regulate the type of speech that they allow. Just because you have freedom of speech, it doesn't mean that you are allowed to say everything you want everywhere you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, I thought this was going to be a thread warning us not to give money to a cult.

You're literally just offended by religious content onstage? You need to research every event you attend much more closely! There are many religions and they inform a huge swatch of art and culture and aren't always explicitly called out in the advertising.

You got that wrong, hopefully not on purpose. I am upset that I was tricked by false advertisement and ended up supporting a cult spreading fundamentalist religious ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows they're a cult OP. How did you not know, or not google beforehand?

And this isn't "religious discussion" - it's bigoted propaganda (they are vehemently against gay rights). I agree, the Kennedy Center shouldn't associate with Shen Yun.

And to pp: this is VASTLY different than opera. Carmen and other big operas are old stories told in art form. They're not preaching a message.

This. I am shocked every year the Kennedy Center continues to carry this performance. Clearly it’s a money grab and the Kennedy Center is not interested in human rights. Shining rainbow lights in “support” of pride is all a show/façade.

Tons of people obviously love Shen Yun.
Too bad for the haters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

If some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs, do you think Kennedy Center should allow them on the stage in the name of freedom of speech? Where do you draw the line?

Sure. If someone wrote a musical about moon deniers and it was high enough quality production, why not?

I noticed that you changed the wording from "some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs" to "someone wrote a musical about moon deniers." Why would you twist my words?

Uh, because the Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue?

I am still waiting for your explanation for how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter. Are you planning to address that anytime soon?

So you twist my words because Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue? What kind of logic is that? This is actually a logical fallacy called straw man.

You sound dumb. Still awaiting your explanation for how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

If some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs, do you think Kennedy Center should allow them on the stage in the name of freedom of speech? Where do you draw the line?

I mean, should it stage Jesus Christ Superstar?

It has.

Which was my point. Maybe OP would oppose that too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noticed you chose not to highlight - twice - the most important part “Falun Dafa”. Researching them probably would have helped you decide to not go to the performance.

I was somewhat aware of Falun Dafa because I often see them meditating and exercising very slowly in parks. I never thought that they were as fundamentalist as the religious right.

I think your only recourse is to contact the box office. Not sure you would get a refund but what else do you want at this point?

I have serious doubts that I would get a refund. Probably raising awareness would be more successful. I was considering an open letter to Kennedy Center to terminate their association with Shen Yun. If Kennedy Center wants to be seen as a progressive institution they should not provide a respectable platform to a retrograde group.

I thought being "progressive" meant accepting different religions (and cultures) whether or not you agree with it or not.

I don't understand why you think the Kennedy Ctr ahoukd distance themselves from them? Bc you personally found it insulting?

Because they are promoting an anti-science message. I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth. We've been through dark times when the religious right was trying to teach religion in schools as an alternative to evolution. I don't want to relitigate that.

So freedom of speech as long as you agree with the message?

Where did I say that? I keep saying and I will say it again: spread your nonsense, but don't mislead me into supporting you spread your nonsense.

Right here

I can be accepting of any nonsense you believe in until you want me to accept it as a universal truth

Freedom of speech requires you to accept their right to tell you to believe. Further, their freedom of religion allows them to apostolize. If you don't like it, you need to find another country.

You clearly make a confusion between your freedom of speech and my freedom to choose whether I support your speech or not. You have the right to blabber all the nonsense you want, but that doesn't give you the right to force your nonsense down my throat. Moreover, make me pay for it. I paid for a cultural experience, I should not have to listen to religious indoctrination. If you believe that your freedom of religion means that you have the right to deceive me and pay for your religious indoctrination, you need to find another country.

How did they force you to pay? How did they force you to listen to it?

They use deceiving advertisement to sell tickets. Once I was in the concert hall, (believe it or not) I could hear what they were saying. To be honest, I was reading from the screen because I don't understand Chinese.

Deceiving advertising? At best you have a consumer protection issue, not a freedom of speech issue. But advertising has so much wiggle room; you don’t have to disclose everything about your product, so long as what you do disclose is not a lie. Sorry you were caught unaware, but I don’t think there’s anything you can do.

The freedom of speech issue was brought up by a person who keeps misinterpreting my concern. I keep saying that everyone can say any nonsense, but they should not trick me into supporting their nonsense. And they come back over and over again to show me how I want to suppress the freedom of speech or freedom of religion of this particular cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, I thought this was going to be a thread warning us not to give money to a cult.

You're literally just offended by religious content onstage? You need to research every event you attend much more closely! There are many religions and they inform a huge swatch of art and culture and aren't always explicitly called out in the advertising.

New poster. THIS, above.

Also: If OP is going to get into a twist over this show, well, where does that stop? If the Kennedy Center boots this show because of the statements OP cited as being made from the stage, that would mean the Kennedy Center would be overrun by people who object to many other shows on many other grounds. The venue would be mired in endless debate over whether to present this show or that show, to the point of institutional paralysis. Have no doubt, the Kennedy Center (and every other venue) already vet shows before giving them the green light, so within Kennedy Center artistic administration someone has long since checked Shen Yun's shows out and was perfectly aware of the entire script. Feel free to file your objection with them, as is your prerogative, but don't think they were ignorant of the content, OP.

If you don't like religious content you find offensive, you'd better steer clear of most theater, period. And yes, even many dance and music performances. I'm currently finding a lot of anti-religious content in TV and films and other media objectionable to me personally, but I don't pitch a fit, or pretend I don't know it's coming, or fuss that it shouldn't be on stage or on screen just because I object to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don’t think the Kennedy Center should allow performances with a religious theme or you think that all shows that have a religious element should have a warning like - Atheists beware. Religious discussion contained in performance.

I never thought that I will ever hear on a Kennedy Center stage that atheism and evolution are devil's deceit. I have nothing against religious shows as long as they are advertised as such. I don't want to pay them to sit in the audience as they tell me that I am the tool of the devil.

I mean, do you really want to go there dictating what speech the Kennedy Center should allow?

If some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs, do you think Kennedy Center should allow them on the stage in the name of freedom of speech? Where do you draw the line?

Sure. If someone wrote a musical about moon deniers and it was high enough quality production, why not?

I noticed that you changed the wording from "some moon-landing deniers would put up a show about their beliefs" to "someone wrote a musical about moon deniers." Why would you twist my words?

Uh, because the Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue?

I am still waiting for your explanation for how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter. Are you planning to address that anytime soon?

So you twist my words because Kennedy Center is a performing arts venue? What kind of logic is that? This is actually a logical fallacy called straw man.

You sound dumb. Still awaiting your explanation for how the Kennedy Center is like Twitter.

What can I do to sound differently? I am trying really hard, but I only sound half as dumb as you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, I thought this was going to be a thread warning us not to give money to a cult.

You're literally just offended by religious content onstage? You need to research every event you attend much more closely! There are many religions and they inform a huge swatch of art and culture and aren't always explicitly called out in the advertising.

New poster. THIS, above.

Also: If OP is going to get into a twist over this show, well, where does that stop? If the Kennedy Center boots this show because of the statements OP cited as being made from the stage, that would mean the Kennedy Center would be overrun by people who object to many other shows on many other grounds. The venue would be mired in endless debate over whether to present this show or that show, to the point of institutional paralysis. Have no doubt, the Kennedy Center (and every other venue) already vet shows before giving them the green light, so within Kennedy Center artistic administration someone has long since checked Shen Yun's shows out and was perfectly aware of the entire script. Feel free to file your objection with them, as is your prerogative, but don't think they were ignorant of the content, OP.

If you don't like religious content you find offensive, you'd better steer clear of most theater, period. And yes, even many dance and music performances. I'm currently finding a lot of anti-religious content in TV and films and other media objectionable to me personally, but I don't pitch a fit, or pretend I don't know it's coming, or fuss that it shouldn't be on stage or on screen just because I object to it.

How would OP "know that it's coming"?

Nowhere in Kennedy Center marketing does it indicate that the show is a performance by a religious cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows they're a cult OP. How did you not know, or not google beforehand?

And this isn't "religious discussion" - it's bigoted propaganda (they are vehemently against gay rights). I agree, the Kennedy Center shouldn't associate with Shen Yun.

And to pp: this is VASTLY different than opera. Carmen and other big operas are old stories told in art form. They're not preaching a message.

This. I am shocked every year the Kennedy Center continues to carry this performance. Clearly it’s a money grab and the Kennedy Center is not interested in human rights. Shining rainbow lights in “support” of pride is all a show/façade.

Tons of people obviously love Shen Yun.
Too bad for the haters.

Or tons of people who have no idea what it's about or who is performing.

I've seen ads for it for YEARS and seriously had thought about going. I had no idea that it's a cult performance based on the Kennedy Center advertising.

Thank you, OP, for sharing this. It will help me decide to skip it.