Trying to understand Catholic arguments for and against abortion

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

DP. You can get them from wherever you want, but you have to argue for them on nonsecular grounds. You can't just rest the law on "because of my religion."

Law can be inspired by a lawmaker's religion, but it cannot be established on the grounds of it.

Who said they were established on the grounds of it?

Where did someone say there was someone who said they were?

This is just a discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

The Catholic Church absolutely is holding a gun to many women’s head - Catholic hospitals impose these nonsensical views on women all the time.

Last time I checked, I was able to get birth control pills, condoms, and abortion clinics are open.

Many women can only go to Catholic hospitals or end up in a Catholic ER with an ectopic pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

The Catholic Church absolutely is holding a gun to many women’s head - Catholic hospitals impose these nonsensical views on women all the time.

+1

How many guns do you need to oppress half of the population?

The Catholic Church took hold of all the condoms?

They want to prevent legal access to proper healthcare.

So they didn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

I don’t want to enforce my beliefs on you. I want access to medical care and to control my reproduction.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think the interesting question for Catholic theologians are the edge cases. In a fire, do you save the 5 year old, or the 100 frozen embryos? If life begins the moment the sperm hits the egg, how do you explain twins that don’t split until day 6? Does the soul split in half, or were there two souls in one body? If abortion is acceptable to save the life of the mother, why?

It’s not. Either both manage to live or both die.

The Church says that medical procedures to save the life of the mother are licit as long as the death of the child is an unintended consequence and not the goal. So removing the septic uterus of a pregnant woman is permitted

"As for the problem of specific medical treatments intended to preserve the health of the mother, it is necessary to make a strong distinction between two different situations: on the one hand, a procedure that directly causes the death of the fetus, sometimes inappropriately called “therapeutic” abortion, which can never be licit in that it is the direct killing of an innocent human being; on the other hand, a procedure not abortive in itself that can have, as a collateral consequence, the death of the child: «If, for example, saving the life of the future mother, independently of her condition of pregnancy, urgently required a surgical procedure or another therapeutic application, which would have as an accessory consequence, in no way desired or intended, but inevitable, the death of the fetus, such an action could not be called a direct attack on the innocent life. In these conditions, the operation can be considered licit, as can other similar medical procedures, always provided that a good of high value, like life, is at stake, and that it is not possible to postpone it until after the birth of the child, or to use any other effective remedy» (Pius XII, Speech to the Fronte della Famiglia and the Associazione Famiglie numerose, November 27, 1951)."

Thank you! People just spouting out stuff they have no idea about and don’t even practice.

I posted that quote about licit abortion and I do worry that the official teaching is so poorly understood that we end up with situations where women who are miscarrying and have complications such as hemorrhage or infection face delayed care. Not only does delayed care endanger the life of the mother but it can also destroy her fertility, which is a horrible thing to lose a child and not have the possibility of having a child in the future.

Thank you for posting this with the cite. Over on the political thread there is wild talk of women being prosecuted for having early miscarriages or having to travel out of state if they have an ectopic pregnancy. Honestly, I think there was more common sense about these things pre-Roe.

The pro-life hysteria was only pushed as a wedge issue by RWNJs years after RvW.

It wasn’t a political issue back then, only medical.

RvW was ruled 7-2, including conservatives.

Many conservative judges have reaffirmed it over the last fifty years.

They saw it as a medical decision, not religious or political. They weren’t activist judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

I’m not religious. I don’t need to be to not want your beliefs on me. You think only religious people don’t want you shoving your beliefs on them? No one wants you shoving your beliefs on them. Get your ass off everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

The Catholic Church absolutely is holding a gun to many women’s head - Catholic hospitals impose these nonsensical views on women all the time.

+1

How many guns do you need to oppress half of the population?

The Catholic Church took hold of all the condoms?

They want to prevent legal access to proper healthcare.

So they didn’t.

Are you having a tough time following? We are taking about Catholics trying to take away healthcare from women because they want to force their religious beliefs on others. This has nothing to do with condoms. Try to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

I’m not religious. I don’t need to be to not want your beliefs on me. You think only religious people don’t want you shoving your beliefs on them? No one wants you shoving your beliefs on them. Get your ass off everyone else.

I fully support you making medical decisions for yourself with your doctor. You don’t need me or politicians or random religious wackos making medical decisions for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

I don’t want to enforce my beliefs on you. I want access to medical care and to control my reproduction.

You are restricted from going to the doctor? Condoms aren’t sold at your local drugstore? Your doctor is a priest and won’t prescribe birth control? Abortion clinics are not open?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

I’m not religious. I don’t need to be to not want your beliefs on me. You think only religious people don’t want you shoving your beliefs on them? No one wants you shoving your beliefs on them. Get your ass off everyone else.

I fully support you making medical decisions for yourself with your doctor. You don’t need me or politicians or random religious wackos making medical decisions for you.

You only want politicians making decisions when it suits your belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

The Catholic Church absolutely is holding a gun to many women’s head - Catholic hospitals impose these nonsensical views on women all the time.

+1

How many guns do you need to oppress half of the population?

The Catholic Church took hold of all the condoms?

They want to prevent legal access to proper healthcare.

So they didn’t.

Are you having a tough time following? We are taking about Catholics trying to take away healthcare from women because they want to force their religious beliefs on others. This has nothing to do with condoms. Try to keep up.

Again, so they did not. Better luck next time on your defection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

I’m not religious. I don’t need to be to not want your beliefs on me. You think only religious people don’t want you shoving your beliefs on them? No one wants you shoving your beliefs on them. Get your ass off everyone else.

I fully support you making medical decisions for yourself with your doctor. You don’t need me or politicians or random religious wackos making medical decisions for you.

You only want politicians making decisions when it suits your belief.

No, I don’t want any politicians inserting themselves in the exam room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

Nice stereotyping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but the Catholic Church is explicit that there is no Catholic argument for abortion. Advocating for abortion is a grave sin.

Catholics Church can hold whatever view it wants on abortion. It has NO right to force those views on others.

Catholic Church is not holding a gun to your head.

Using specific religious dogma to make decisions on abortion for all Americans? Of course the Catholic Church is holding a gun to the rest of us who do not subscribe to their ideology. And of course the CC has influence on American lawmakers - to say it doesn't, is blatant dishonesty (which is also a sin).

Laws are alway made with moral understanding. If one gets that from a religion they are allowed to. You are allowed to seek your morals from whatever you want.

But in a secular democracy like the USA, No religion is allowed to enforce its beliefs on citizens.

Neither are you allowed to enforce your beliefs into others.

+1

Get your Bible off my uterus.

I’m not religious. I don’t need to be to not want your beliefs on me. You think only religious people don’t want you shoving your beliefs on them? No one wants you shoving your beliefs on them. Get your ass off everyone else.

I fully support you making medical decisions for yourself with your doctor. You don’t need me or politicians or random religious wackos making medical decisions for you.

You only want politicians making decisions when it suits your belief.

No, I don’t want any politicians inserting themselves in the exam room.

Oh, but you do if it works in your favor.