Wilson is 50% over enrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what if you were told that people in other parts of the city didn’t want successful students all clustered in your neighborhood while leaving theirs to go to Deal or Wilson?

I'm in another part of the city and I'm not sending my kids to our zoned middle or high school, and neither are most of the people who live here. And not because they're at Deal/Wilson. I think it would be far better if we all did, but closing off one alternative isn't going to make that happen. (And DCPS has options to make other schools more attractive that they aren't using.)

What other options are available? I'm in favor of magnet schools strategically placed thru out the city. Easier said than done but you have to start somewhere..

Tracking, and particularly the kind of math options that Deal offers. We have buildings that can handle more students and already have administrators, so we need more kids there, not additional schools in those areas. And it's not about building renovations, it's about curricula and peer group and the two go together.

Agreed...But I dont' think DC can actually track according to a court order as some have alluded too. Don't need any new buildings just programming...

They're doing it at Deal. They have multiple math levels.

This back and forth illustrates the fundamental problem with all of these discussions and why I think the issue persists without a plan or clarity as to why there isn't a plan. As a starting point I would suggest people stop using the word "tracking". Besides having a historical and cultural meaning can sound like a dog whistle to some, it isn't a defined term that everyone understands to mean the same thing. As a result it also results in some people dismissing "tracking" as a non-starter out of some mangled interpretation of a "court order" when no court prohibits "tracking"; to the extent they ruled on anything it would have been specific policies (or outcomes).

If you continue to scream "Yes, Tracking!", "No TRACKING" at each other without defining what you mean then it continues to be what most of DCUM usually is, useless, childish shouting.

Sure, whatever you want to call it. There is obviously nothing illegal about providing the curricular options currently provided at the in-demand schools to other schools. There are major logistical issues with expanding those to smaller schools with students bodies where most of the students are not on grade level. But moving in that direction would draw more parents.

[Anonymous]

better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

Makes me wonder why schools worry so much about breakdowns within grades and not just aggregating based material. I know at SH the have on occasion just moved 6th graders into 7th grade math to solve the problem of a small number of kids way above grade level. That seems an artful and resourceful solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

This is true at all middle and high school grade levels- I can guarantee Algebra II at many DCPS schools is basically 8th grade math/Algebra I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

This is true at all middle and high school grade levels- I can guarantee Algebra II at many DCPS schools is basically 8th grade math/Algebra I.

Yes! Teachers teach to where students are. Which means that saying "we're teaching advanced classes now" is not sufficient. You have to commit to a mechanism for how getting into those classes works, even if that means you're teaching an algebra class for four kids in hopes that there will be more kids in later years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

DP: Public schools exist to educate *all* children, rich and poor. They don’t get to choose to what demographics or personalities they prefer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

But most parents are not sending their kids to their IB middle and high schools. Unhappiness is widespread. And parents from all economic groups want to send their kids to the only schools in the city with advanced classes and high-performing peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

Why are you assuming PP is UMC? Are not parents of any class interested in advanced instruction if that is appropriate for their child? Talk about classist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

Why are you assuming PP is UMC? Are not parents of any class interested in advanced instruction if that is appropriate for their child? Talk about classist.

I wasn't going to bother to respond because I thought their assumptions said more about them and their views of class than it did about me. I did find it pretty funny that they just assumed they knew who or what I was. The idea that only white people with trust funds care about sending their kids to quality schools or having access to legitimate advanced classes is precisely what I would expect from DC Urban moms.

They also glossed over the part that tells us that there is little demand for all but Wilson high School in the traditional high school track and very little demand for most middle schools. At least in my family the reason those are not options is because they do not offer classes at an advanced level. Minority parents understand their children need to be at the top of their class with the best possible credentials to overcome systemic racism. I guess it would surprise a lot of the people on this blog that black people are probably the first to opt out of a school without sufficient academic rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

Why are you assuming PP is UMC? Are not parents of any class interested in advanced instruction if that is appropriate for their child? Talk about classist.

I wasn't going to bother to respond because I thought their assumptions said more about them and their views of class than it did about me. I did find it pretty funny that they just assumed they knew who or what I was. The idea that only white people with trust funds care about sending their kids to quality schools or having access to legitimate advanced classes is precisely what I would expect from DC Urban moms.

They also glossed over the part that tells us that there is little demand for all but Wilson high School in the traditional high school track and very little demand for most middle schools. At least in my family the reason those are not options is because they do not offer classes at an advanced level. Minority parents understand their children need to be at the top of their class with the best possible credentials to overcome systemic racism. I guess it would surprise a lot of the people on this blog that black people are probably the first to opt out of a school without sufficient academic rigor.

+1...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

Why are you assuming PP is UMC? Are not parents of any class interested in advanced instruction if that is appropriate for their child? Talk about classist.

I wasn't going to bother to respond because I thought their assumptions said more about them and their views of class than it did about me. I did find it pretty funny that they just assumed they knew who or what I was. The idea that only white people with trust funds care about sending their kids to quality schools or having access to legitimate advanced classes is precisely what I would expect from DC Urban moms.

They also glossed over the part that tells us that there is little demand for all but Wilson high School in the traditional high school track and very little demand for most middle schools. At least in my family the reason those are not options is because they do not offer classes at an advanced level. Minority parents understand their children need to be at the top of their class with the best possible credentials to overcome systemic racism. I guess it would surprise a lot of the people on this blog that black people are probably the first to opt out of a school without sufficient academic rigor.

You are absolutely refusing to see that by saying “parents are not going to send kids to DCPS…” you negate the existence of the thousands of parents who DO send their kids to DCPS schools. You can write about parents that choose charters and parents that send their kids to privates, but you are refusing to see the point. There are currently thousands of kids in the high schools that you blithely dismiss. You don’t seem to see them as people or their families as people. You talk about DC schools like those kids don’t exist and/or aren’t important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:better than tracking and more accurate (I think) is, "some harder classes."

But they go together. For instance, at one zoned middle school, they teach algebra and they have an accelerated math program on paper. But there are about 7 kids getting 5s on the math parcc as opposed to about 250 at Deal, so are they really teaching an algebra class that's comparable? Because if they're basically just taking the top 30 eighth graders, that's including a big chunk of kids who are not at grade level on math, and either the class is not an algebra class or those kids are massively struggling.

That is a challenge. There is an element of "if you build it they will come" required to make this work, I think. And it cannot be a one year test case with no follow-through because parents will need to see a commitment over a number of years to feel comfortable that the program will remain in place if they send their kids to DCPS. That requires Central to have credibility. Which honestly isn't going to happen. Which means it would really take a Mayoral decree and accountability to make it stick. And that isn't going to happen. So I have no idea how this gets done.

Do you see that when you write about what “parents” need to see before they send their kids to DCPS, it comes off as crazy classist? Thousands of parents send our kids to DCPS right now. When you write as you did, it makes it seem like we are not people to you.

Also, can you explain why you think that having more parents like you in our schools is a good thing that DCPS should prioritize (particularly given the decades long track record of UMC parents in cities of making demands of schools systems based on a promise of sending their kids there only for those parents to opt out in the end)?

Why are you assuming PP is UMC? Are not parents of any class interested in advanced instruction if that is appropriate for their child? Talk about classist.

You’re doubling down on your refusal to see that not everyone is like you. Listen more. Talk less. Don’t assume you know what everyone wants.