Explain people who excelled academically in high school, got into great universities then flopped

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy. I came from a lower middle class background and bad high school; college was so hard and depressing, as I was so unprepared and had to make up for 12 years of subpar education in less than 4.

If I have gone to law school, I very well could have gone to some low ranked school, and I likely would have no idea that it mattered or that it was a bad idea. My mom would have been thrilled, an attorney in the family! It wasn’t like my classmates and I talked about BigLaw incomes vs sht law or what not. We chased girls and drank beer and crammed for tests. A lawyer was a lawyer as I knew.

What kind of Ivy did you go to where no one ever worried about getting into the most prestigious law/ other grad schools?? Because I went to a school that is not an Ivy, but still in the top 25, and we were ALL very much aware that law school ranking matters A LOT in terms of employment options. I felt like most people were aiming for the law school at our university, or somewhere ranked higher than that. Going to a law school that was ranked lower than the (T14) law school at my undergrad university was widely considered to be a disappointment.

Would be way more impressed if more Ivy Leaguers were anxious about using their advantages in life to do good rather than gain admission to T14 law school … if you can’t do good, at least be funny like Conan O’Brien (Harvard), the comedic genius. I would be so disappointed in my children if they attend an Ivy and do not seek to use their education to help others in whatever way they can.

[Anonymous]

This may be practice area specific, but I know several people with undergrad from MIT who went to Suffolk Law School. They practice patent law, the employers paid for their degrees. They all work for major companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This may be practice area specific, but I know several people with undergrad from MIT who went to Suffolk Law School. They practice patent law, the employers paid for their degrees. They all work for major companies.

Suffolk Law is known for this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BigLaw firm won’t look at anyone who didn’t graduate from a top-10 school. I fight them on it every year but those old white guys are stuck too firmly in their ways (with big sticks up their bums…)

Top tier Biglaw partner here. No Biglaw firm in this country "won't look at anyone who didn't graduate from a top-10 school." None. These firms, by definition, are "big," and collectively they go through thousands of associates every year. There are not enough law school graduates from the top 10 to meet their needs.

Give us a link to ONE Biglaw firm's website where there are no associates from outside the top ten. I'll wait.

Ok, it was a bit of an exaggeration, but I’m the hiring partner for our office’s lit department. I have to fight my colleagues every year to look at places like Georgetown. We have a very small number of associates from schools in the top 10-30, and almost none below that on the litigation side. Corporate is bigger and likely less selective. I’m not going to name my firm but it is a top tier Biglaw firm.

So we've gone from top 10 to top 30. Big difference,

Not really. As I said, it takes a lot of pushing to even interview candidates who aren’t at T10/14 schools. For summer associates I’d say 95+% are from the top 10 schools, we only do OCR at top 10 schools and Georgetown (for whatever reason). Lateral candidates probably make up the vast majority of the grade from schools ranked 10-30.

Are we talking about an Amlaw 100 firm? An Amlaw 200 firm? Are you in DC?

The problem I'm having is that I know DC Biglaw very, very well and I can't fit of a single firm with a major presence here that fits your description. At a minimum, every one of them interviews at GW.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I mean think not fit.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the responses, but here are a few thoughts:

1. Not all high schools are difficult/challenging, but top colleges are, so there are people who get into top colleges who don't do well there.

2. They got scholarships to the "lower-ranked" law schools.

3. They partied too much in college.

4. The law schools are much better than you think. Often a law school significantly outranks/outperforms the university as a whole. George Mason is a good example.

5. They didn't go to law school immediately, and so they were geographically restricted in where they could go to law school because of family, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll bite, HYP undergrad here and T10 law school. Most of them got in via some sort of undeserving hook - legacy, prep school connections, or athlete in some random sport that only prep schools do.

They weren't smart and did terribly on the LSAT (or MCAT), but were told they were spectacular by parents their whole lives and couldn't give up the dream of being a lawyer or doctor. Went to whatever shitty school let them in. These were the same kids with mediocre SAT scores but the hook to get in.

It's somewhat shocking how many are like this. It's why I say you can tell who the deserving Ivy undergrads are in one second - double Ivy or the equivalent or they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

LOL you had me until this
The five double ivys I know -- and I mean all five of them -- are from the very richest (and whitest) families you can imagine, and all are noticeably, almost painfully average. Perhaps if they'd done a masters at Ohio State it wouldn't be as glaringly obvious that they are just credentials with no real oomph.

That’s actually really interesting. I have the opposite anecdotal experience - there of course are some rich white kids but they were almost annoyingly smart. MBAs don’t count though - just JDs and MDs. Come to think of it though they were all Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy. I came from a lower middle class background and bad high school; college was so hard and depressing, as I was so unprepared and had to make up for 12 years of subpar education in less than 4.

If I have gone to law school, I very well could have gone to some low ranked school, and I likely would have no idea that it mattered or that it was a bad idea. My mom would have been thrilled, an attorney in the family! It wasn’t like my classmates and I talked about BigLaw incomes vs sht law or what not. We chased girls and drank beer and crammed for tests. A lawyer was a lawyer as I knew.

What kind of Ivy did you go to where no one ever worried about getting into the most prestigious law/ other grad schools?? Because I went to a school that is not an Ivy, but still in the top 25, and we were ALL very much aware that law school ranking matters A LOT in terms of employment options. I felt like most people were aiming for the law school at our university, or somewhere ranked higher than that. Going to a law school that was ranked lower than the (T14) law school at my undergrad university was widely considered to be a disappointment.

Would be way more impressed if more Ivy Leaguers were anxious about using their advantages in life to do good rather than gain admission to T14 law school … if you can’t do good, at least be funny like Conan O’Brien (Harvard), the comedic genius. I would be so disappointed in my children if they attend an Ivy and do not seek to use their education to help others in whatever way they can.

You know that public interest law is a thing, right? And that T14 schools have the best loan forgiveness programs for people who want to "use their education to help others in whatever way they can"? Sounds like you need to get a clue before you judge your children or anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy. I came from a lower middle class background and bad high school; college was so hard and depressing, as I was so unprepared and had to make up for 12 years of subpar education in less than 4.

If I have gone to law school, I very well could have gone to some low ranked school, and I likely would have no idea that it mattered or that it was a bad idea. My mom would have been thrilled, an attorney in the family! It wasn’t like my classmates and I talked about BigLaw incomes vs sht law or what not. We chased girls and drank beer and crammed for tests. A lawyer was a lawyer as I knew.

What kind of Ivy did you go to where no one ever worried about getting into the most prestigious law/ other grad schools?? Because I went to a school that is not an Ivy, but still in the top 25, and we were ALL very much aware that law school ranking matters A LOT in terms of employment options. I felt like most people were aiming for the law school at our university, or somewhere ranked higher than that. Going to a law school that was ranked lower than the (T14) law school at my undergrad university was widely considered to be a disappointment.

Would be way more impressed if more Ivy Leaguers were anxious about using their advantages in life to do good rather than gain admission to T14 law school … if you can’t do good, at least be funny like Conan O’Brien (Harvard), the comedic genius. I would be so disappointed in my children if they attend an Ivy and do not seek to use their education to help others in whatever way they can.

You know that public interest law is a thing, right? And that T14 schools have the best loan forgiveness programs for people who want to "use their education to help others in whatever way they can"? Sounds like you need to get a clue before you judge your children or anyone else.

Yes obviously / it was a response to pp claiming that anyone at their Ivy who did not go into a T14 law school was a “disappointment”. I want my smart and creative children to have deeper standards for success than attending brand name university for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy. I came from a lower middle class background and bad high school; college was so hard and depressing, as I was so unprepared and had to make up for 12 years of subpar education in less than 4.

If I have gone to law school, I very well could have gone to some low ranked school, and I likely would have no idea that it mattered or that it was a bad idea. My mom would have been thrilled, an attorney in the family! It wasn’t like my classmates and I talked about BigLaw incomes vs sht law or what not. We chased girls and drank beer and crammed for tests. A lawyer was a lawyer as I knew.

What kind of Ivy did you go to where no one ever worried about getting into the most prestigious law/ other grad schools?? Because I went to a school that is not an Ivy, but still in the top 25, and we were ALL very much aware that law school ranking matters A LOT in terms of employment options. I felt like most people were aiming for the law school at our university, or somewhere ranked higher than that. Going to a law school that was ranked lower than the (T14) law school at my undergrad university was widely considered to be a disappointment.

Would be way more impressed if more Ivy Leaguers were anxious about using their advantages in life to do good rather than gain admission to T14 law school … if you can’t do good, at least be funny like Conan O’Brien (Harvard), the comedic genius. I would be so disappointed in my children if they attend an Ivy and do not seek to use their education to help others in whatever way they can.

You know that public interest law is a thing, right? And that T14 schools have the best loan forgiveness programs for people who want to "use their education to help others in whatever way they can"? Sounds like you need to get a clue before you judge your children or anyone else.

Yes obviously / it was a response to pp claiming that anyone at their Ivy who did not go into a T14 law school was a “disappointment”. I want my smart and creative children to have deeper standards for success than attending brand name university for grad school.

Why stop at grad school? Why send them to Ivy undergraduate schools if you feel it may hamper creativity?