What are the egineering weed-out classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

40% of Stanford is on disability. What say u?

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

The very top Engineering schools don't (Top 5). They figure if you got in there you are smart enough. Weed out not necessary.

Correct.
Look at Ivies with true engineering programs as well as MIT, CMU, UCB, JHU, Stanford, maybe couple others: the retention rate from freshmen in the E school to sophomores is over 95%. Thus there is no weedout, however these colleges do the weeding as part of admission. When you only let in 1500+ with mostly 5s on Stem APs, you can be successful in engineering.

true! those lucky enough to get in are set

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery. [/quote



How do you know your kid is REALLY learning the material without getting rigorously tested?

[Anonymous]

Tests don't bother me, generally it's the curve I hate. If 90% of the students get it, the failures still get a C and there's a wasted A-B distribution across the set of students who grasped the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

The very top Engineering schools don't (Top 5). They figure if you got in there you are smart enough. Weed out not necessary.

Correct.
Look at Ivies with true engineering programs as well as MIT, CMU, UCB, JHU, Stanford, maybe couple others: the retention rate from freshmen in the E school to sophomores is over 95%. Thus there is no weedout, however these colleges do the weeding as part of admission. When you only let in 1500+ with mostly 5s on Stem APs, you can be successful in engineering.

I went to one of those schools and there were foundational classes for certain majors that we referred to as weed out classes. That said, it wasn't so much that the people that changed majors couldn't do the work. More that if you're not into a course that needs to become a core competency for the major, it's time to reassess. Also, I think professors in some of those classes wanted to give students a "this isn't high school anymore' reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tests don't bother me, generally it's the curve I hate. If 90% of the students get it, the failures still get a C and there's a wasted A-B distribution across the set of students who grasped the material.

At the top schools, C's still get degrees. Just survive and get through it.

[Anonymous]

There are weed out courses and programs for certain. It is unfortunate, but most convey that information up front, so it is on you to research when choosing a school.

For example, Wisconsin, Florida and others all post that certain GPA's are needed after certain courses or at the end of each year. You can even go on sites like madgrades to see that a portion of students do not make the cut in various courses and therefore are not likely going to make it in - though some offer a grace semester to recover.

We chose a school where a C- or better is a pass for the course (some are of course curved). Our student has not needed it, but he likes that he does not have anything hanging over his head - the work is hard enough as it is.

Engineering is hard for most students and requires a lot of study - if your student made it through with some C's, I would definitely still congratulate them - most students around the country and world cannot do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are weed out courses and programs for certain. It is unfortunate, but most convey that information up front, so it is on you to research when choosing a school.

For example, Wisconsin, Florida and others all post that certain GPA's are needed after certain courses or at the end of each year. You can even go on sites like madgrades to see that a portion of students do not make the cut in various courses and therefore are not likely going to make it in - though some offer a grace semester to recover.

We chose a school where a C- or better is a pass for the course (some are of course curved). Our student has not needed it, but he likes that he does not have anything hanging over his head - the work is hard enough as it is.

Engineering is hard for most students and requires a lot of study - if your student made it through with some C's, I would definitely still congratulate them - most students around the country and world cannot do it.

All most schools di this
JMU dies it first nursing

MD does it for many majors

Matriculation is key get into the engineering school as a freshman do not attend a school you need to matriculation as a sophomore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are weed out courses and programs for certain. It is unfortunate, but most convey that information up front, so it is on you to research when choosing a school.

For example, Wisconsin, Florida and others all post that certain GPA's are needed after certain courses or at the end of each year. You can even go on sites like madgrades to see that a portion of students do not make the cut in various courses and therefore are not likely going to make it in - though some offer a grace semester to recover.

We chose a school where a C- or better is a pass for the course (some are of course curved). Our student has not needed it, but he likes that he does not have anything hanging over his head - the work is hard enough as it is.

Engineering is hard for most students and requires a lot of study - if your student made it through with some C's, I would definitely still congratulate them - most students around the country and world cannot do it.

+1000. The Dean at one of the Top Engineering Schools my kid attends made that clear in a meeting with parents on Move-in day. Letting us know that all of our kids probably never had a B to get admitted there, but made it clear that those days of them no getting B's or C's is over. Most of the kid's must accept that.

[Anonymous]

We are skipping VT and other engineering programs with intentional weed out classes. Only applying to programs with high graduation rates with a degree in engineering.

Others should do whichever they think sensible.

[Anonymous]

Reputable employers aren't interesting in hiring graduates from non-competitive engineering schools. The students who actually graduate from the tougher schools are the best of the best.

[Anonymous]

Would love to hear that backed up with university names from which engineering grads don’t get hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reputable employers aren't interesting in hiring graduates from non-competitive engineering schools. The students who actually graduate from the tougher schools are the best of the best.

Hiring manager at a tech firm. Disagree with the above. We actively hire from most ABET accredited engineering programs. We are typical of tech firms, not unusual.

Our experience is that if the student graduated with a -specific- engineering degree (examples of specific degrees include AeroE, CompE, EE, MechE) they are fully capable of doing the work. ABET provides a floor, but it is a high floor, not a low floor.

Our experience is that "rank" and "prestige" of an engineering program do not translate into better on the job abilities. Locally, we are -equally- happy with engineering graduates from CNU, GMU, JHU, ODU, UMCP, UMBC, UVA, VCU, and VT -- provided they took rigorous upper-level in-major electives.

We do not hire students who got a degree in "General Engineering" because they lack the depth of knowledge in a specific field of engineering that we need.

We also find that a degree in "Engineering Technology" covers less material than the corresponding "Engineering" degree. For example, we are not hiring folks with an EET degree - because they are less capable than folks with an actual EE degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reputable employers aren't interesting in hiring graduates from non-competitive engineering schools. The students who actually graduate from the tougher schools are the best of the best.

Hiring manager at a tech firm. Disagree with the above. We actively hire from most ABET accredited engineering programs. We are typical of tech firms, not unusual.

Our experience is that if the student graduated with a -specific- engineering degree (examples of specific degrees include AeroE, CompE, EE, MechE) they are fully capable of doing the work. ABET provides a floor, but it is a high floor, not a low floor.

Our experience is that "rank" and "prestige" of an engineering program do not translate into better on the job abilities. Locally, we are -equally- happy with engineering graduates from CNU, GMU, JHU, ODU, UMCP, UMBC, UVA, VCU, and VT -- provided they took rigorous upper-level in-major electives.

We do not hire students who got a degree in "General Engineering" because they lack the depth of knowledge in a specific field of engineering that we need.

We also find that a degree in "Engineering Technology" covers less material than the corresponding "Engineering" degree. For example, we are not hiring folks with an EET degree - because they are less capable than folks with an actual EE degree.

I’ve been following this conversation and this comment captures a point I wanted to make a while ago. “Weed out” classes are just higher level math classes or engineering courses where mathematical skills are applied for analysis in different sub-disciplines. When you compare an engineering degree with the corresponding technology degree you can see that the engineering technology degree doesn’t require calculus and has modified versions of courses that are applications focused rather than analysis focused.

There are two types of “weed out” - mathematical based (can’t get through calculus or the application of it in physics) and pace/intensity based (high credit load of lab based STEM courses). As another poster said, elite schools that don’t have “weed out” already did the weeding through applications. Big public universities are accepting students who haven’t ever taken calculus or physics before, which is why those courses are freshman weed out there.

I find it odd that some posters seem to believe some schools are intentionally being “mean” and trying to get students to drop out through weed out courses. Ummm, no. They are ensuring that students have the skills and knowledge they need to be successful in higher level engineering courses. It’s better for students to discover the workload and analytical thinking required in engineering sooner rather than later. Some students chose engineering as a major because it’s high paying and a “good” career, without really having any experience or understanding of the depths of STEM expertise it goes into. Those freshman courses act as the gateway by providing foundational knowledge and experience. So yes, they do weed out students, but it’s for a reason.