What are the egineering weed-out classes?

[Anonymous]

I'm a big dan of more collaborative programs that don't pit students against each other.

[Anonymous]

I'm a dan dan noodle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my university, it wasn't a specific class, but the combination of classes.

Ex - 2nd semester of Freshman year included
- Calc 2 (4 hours)
- 2nd semester chemistry (3-4 hours depending on if you had a lab)
- 1st semester of physics (4 hours)

The chem + physics combo was difficult, esp. with the English lit requirement and some sort of humanities. If you didn't have both completed at the end of your freshman year, you could not matriculate into your accepted major. (e.g., you wouldn't officially be Mechanical Engineering). Some kids I know were happy to delay physics until sophomore year. Others took it over summer school. Others took both sciences all in 1 semester and hated life. And some changed majors.

Whew! would be helpful for readers if you could kindly name the school.

Pull up any top Engineering program and you will find similar: the first semester is usually Chem, Physics, whatever Calc level they place into, an intro engineering course(or intro programming), then the 5th class is an elective, ie 5 credits per semester. Schools that count hours not credits, it is typically 19-20 hours per semester.
The intro stem courses can be slightly harder than AP to much harder than AP, depending on the rigor of the school.
3-4 Stem courses in one semester is de rigueur for E schools, at least the top private/ivy or top public ones. Everyone does it, summers are not needed to spread it out unless one is bottom of the pack and gets below a 3.2 first semester (academic probation at many ivy types, because it is bottom 10-15%)

[Anonymous]

Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

The very top Engineering schools don't (Top 5). They figure if you got in there you are smart enough. Weed out not necessary.

Correct.
Look at Ivies with true engineering programs as well as MIT, CMU, UCB, JHU, Stanford, maybe couple others: the retention rate from freshmen in the E school to sophomores is over 95%. Thus there is no weedout, however these colleges do the weeding as part of admission. When you only let in 1500+ with mostly 5s on Stem APs, you can be successful in engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery.

Weed outs are not necessary. We are avoiding those programs. (VT is not on our list) Other students will make different choices and that is fine.

Our DC will only be applying to engineering programs with a high rate (90+%) of students who start in engineering graduating with an engineering degree within 5 years.

We also will be looking closely at programs where the initial engineering core courses are pass/fail

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

40% of Stanford is on disability. What say u?

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

The very top Engineering schools don't (Top 5). They figure if you got in there you are smart enough. Weed out not necessary.

Correct.
Look at Ivies with true engineering programs as well as MIT, CMU, UCB, JHU, Stanford, maybe couple others: the retention rate from freshmen in the E school to sophomores is over 95%. Thus there is no weedout, however these colleges do the weeding as part of admission. When you only let in 1500+ with mostly 5s on Stem APs, you can be successful in engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

It's more that they want the very best kids to remain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

It's more that they want the very best kids to remain.

But the top schools already get the best kids.

IMO, the material/workload is just tough. They aren't intentionally trying to weed people out. There is no advantage to have a bunch of kids dropping out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my university, it wasn't a specific class, but the combination of classes.

Ex - 2nd semester of Freshman year included
- Calc 2 (4 hours)
- 2nd semester chemistry (3-4 hours depending on if you had a lab)
- 1st semester of physics (4 hours)

The chem + physics combo was difficult, esp. with the English lit requirement and some sort of humanities. If you didn't have both completed at the end of your freshman year, you could not matriculate into your accepted major. (e.g., you wouldn't officially be Mechanical Engineering). Some kids I know were happy to delay physics until sophomore year. Others took it over summer school. Others took both sciences all in 1 semester and hated life. And some changed majors.

Whew! would be helpful for readers if you could kindly name the school.

Pull up any top Engineering program and you will find similar: the first semester is usually Chem, Physics, whatever Calc level they place into, an intro engineering course(or intro programming), then the 5th class is an elective, ie 5 credits per semester. Schools that count hours not credits, it is typically 19-20 hours per semester.
The intro stem courses can be slightly harder than AP to much harder than AP, depending on the rigor of the school.
3-4 Stem courses in one semester is de rigueur for E schools, at least the top private/ivy or top public ones. Everyone does it, summers are not needed to spread it out unless one is bottom of the pack and gets below a 3.2 first semester (academic probation at many ivy types, because it is bottom 10-15%)

This is neither accurate nor helpful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery.

Weed outs are not necessary. We are avoiding those programs. (VT is not on our list) Other students will make different choices and that is fine.

Our DC will only be applying to engineering programs with a high rate (90+%) of students who start in engineering graduating with an engineering degree within 5 years.

We also will be looking closely at programs where the initial engineering core courses are pass/fail

Weedout classes and curves are unethical. If you accept the student and take their money, you support the student and help them thrive. If everyone gets 70% or whatever is necessary, everyone passes. No games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all engineering programs have intentional weed-out classes. Programs with high (maybe 90+%) 5-yr graduation rates in engineering of the students who started in engineering likely don't have intentional weed-out classes.

The better schools absolutely have intentional weed-out classes.

Or maybe the material is just tough.

Why would they intentionally want kids to drop out?

The very top Engineering schools don't (Top 5). They figure if you got in there you are smart enough. Weed out not necessary.

Correct.
Look at Ivies with true engineering programs as well as MIT, CMU, UCB, JHU, Stanford, maybe couple others: the retention rate from freshmen in the E school to sophomores is over 95%. Thus there is no weedout, however these colleges do the weeding as part of admission. When you only let in 1500+ with mostly 5s on Stem APs, you can be successful in engineering.

Top 3
MIT
Stanford
Georgia Tech/UCB

13. Johns Hopkins

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery.

Weed outs are not necessary. We are avoiding those programs. (VT is not on our list) Other students will make different choices and that is fine.

Our DC will only be applying to engineering programs with a high rate (90+%) of students who start in engineering graduating with an engineering degree within 5 years.

We also will be looking closely at programs where the initial engineering core courses are pass/fail

VT is a weedout program for engineering? If possible, can you share more details. We are considering the school for our child and have already applied EA there. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

To figure out if a particular engineering program has weed out, look at the % of students who started in engineering as freshman who graduate with an engineering degree within 5 years.

Use 5yrs not 4yrs, because if a student has a coop then it often pushes their degree back about a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are weedouts and grade curves necessary? The curve was what I hated most about law school. Why would I volunteer my kid for that, especially when I know my kid will learn the material? Doesn’t need fake accommodations or anything to finish homework on time or get to subject matter mastery.

Weed outs are not necessary. We are avoiding those programs. (VT is not on our list) Other students will make different choices and that is fine.

Our DC will only be applying to engineering programs with a high rate (90+%) of students who start in engineering graduating with an engineering degree within 5 years.

We also will be looking closely at programs where the initial engineering core courses are pass/fail

VT is a weedout program for engineering? If possible, can you share more details. We are considering the school for our child and have already applied EA there. Thank you.

VT has the "highest ranked" engineering program in VA.

We do not think rank matters as much in engineering because ABET sets the minimum / floor pretty high. Any ABET engineering program will be rigorous.

Some other VA public engineering programs have visibly higher 5 yr graduation rates of students graduating with an engineering degree of those who started in engineering. Look into those numbers.

Colleague with a Eng degree from VT tells the story that his cohort (pre-pandemic) were told by VT during orientation to expect drop outs / transfers from engineering to other colleges at VT, that many who start in engineering at VT do not graduate with an engineering degree. He is proud he made it through and says VT's approach prevents marginal students from designing bridges that might fail.

Choose whichever program both offers the desired specific engineering degree and also is the best fit for your student. Different students will have different "best fit" universities.