ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

It's +60 because numbnut there actually are school districts who's cutoff date is in July. If your intention is to completely get rid of trapped players you need to include July as well

Conceptually what you're proposing and SY+60 are the same. What's happening is the cutoff for a grade is being spread over a time frame instead of being a single date. This allows multiple school start dates to work together as a league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

You can also change the +60 to +600 and it wouldn't matter as long as proof of grade enrolled in school was a requirement for eligibility. However this would allow the GY hold backs and homeschoolers to game the system and be older then everyone else. Keeping it +60 blocks out the GY people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SY + 60? Still don’t know what that means.

Sy+60 means for most players there's a hard cutoff of 9/1 + 12 months and all you need is an eligable birthcert to play.

However if you were born 60 days before 9/1 and can provide birthcert and evidence that you're enrolled in that grade in school even if you're technically up to 60 days older you can play with that age group.

What this does is create one rule that works in all geographies that completely addresses all trapped players. Also because you need to provide proof of enrollment in xyz grade players can't play down a grade.

End result is no trapped players and all players at events and showcases are one grade in school.

So in this system, if you’re looking at September 1, 2012 - August 31, 2013 group, if you are born in Aug or July of 2012, but can prove you’re in the same grade as the Sept 1 - Aug 31 grouping, you’re playing with that group even though you’re a little bit older?

Parents are always working an angle. I don't blame them ... Otherwise they'd be the youngest. Now they'd be the oldest. Sounds like June or May parents need to come up with their "fix" next!

9/1+364

This doesn't really change anything other than allowing hold back / regrade players.

9/1+700 still requires a valid birth cert (which they'd almost certainly have because of +700) and proof that they're enrolled in that grade at school.

The proof that you're enrolled in X grade at school is what prohibits players from playing down + keeps all players on a team a certain grade which has value for scouts.

In general you want to do 9/1+60 or 9/1+90 to completely get rid of trapped players.

It's important to choose +60 or +90 so there's a cutoff to not allow hold backs / regrades or homeschoolers from gaming the system.

Is apparently happening anyway in Lacrosse (older players playing down) because they can't implement a strong enough age verification system. People who look older just say "I'm grad" year (basically +60/+90).

If a league or event was confirming proof of birth cert and proof of enrolled grade in school what you're describing can't happen.

Well, bad age verification what they're complaining about on the lacrosse boards (and what USA lacrosse is saying they're fixing!). But maybe it's just unhinged parents.

Do you know how soccer verifies ages?

The birth certificates you submit, they don’t go any further than the club registrar or team manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

That makes no sense.

They don’t care about playing down by choice, or playing up by choice. They need to pick a date (or three) and minimize / reduce excuses.

The trapped thing, it’s real in that it exists, what degree it matters is debatable. But they’re trying to reduce it to reduce barriers / obstacles - they want kids to have fun. Totally get it.

The +60 garbage is just an attempt to introduce waivers and loopholes to make hyper competitive but low effort families happy. Nobody cares about them, nor should they.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SY + 60? Still don’t know what that means.

Sy+60 means for most players there's a hard cutoff of 9/1 + 12 months and all you need is an eligable birthcert to play.

However if you were born 60 days before 9/1 and can provide birthcert and evidence that you're enrolled in that grade in school even if you're technically up to 60 days older you can play with that age group.

What this does is create one rule that works in all geographies that completely addresses all trapped players. Also because you need to provide proof of enrollment in xyz grade players can't play down a grade.

End result is no trapped players and all players at events and showcases are one grade in school.

So in this system, if you’re looking at September 1, 2012 - August 31, 2013 group, if you are born in Aug or July of 2012, but can prove you’re in the same grade as the Sept 1 - Aug 31 grouping, you’re playing with that group even though you’re a little bit older?

Parents are always working an angle. I don't blame them ... Otherwise they'd be the youngest. Now they'd be the oldest. Sounds like June or May parents need to come up with their "fix" next!

9/1+364

This doesn't really change anything other than allowing hold back / regrade players.

9/1+700 still requires a valid birth cert (which they'd almost certainly have because of +700) and proof that they're enrolled in that grade at school.

The proof that you're enrolled in X grade at school is what prohibits players from playing down + keeps all players on a team a certain grade which has value for scouts.

In general you want to do 9/1+60 or 9/1+90 to completely get rid of trapped players.

It's important to choose +60 or +90 so there's a cutoff to not allow hold backs / regrades or homeschoolers from gaming the system.

Is apparently happening anyway in Lacrosse (older players playing down) because they can't implement a strong enough age verification system. People who look older just say "I'm grad" year (basically +60/+90).

If a league or event was confirming proof of birth cert and proof of enrolled grade in school what you're describing can't happen.

Well, bad age verification what they're complaining about on the lacrosse boards (and what USA lacrosse is saying they're fixing!). But maybe it's just unhinged parents.

Do you know how soccer verifies ages?

The birth certificates you submit, they don’t go any further than the club registrar or team manager.

You see clubs/teams try to sneak in older players on other kids birth certs every now and then. In Latino/Mexican leagues this is a huge problem because sometimes players don't have a birthcert.

Over time and at higher levels this won't work. Usually when leagues catch clubs doing this they get multiple forfeits in their record. If it's pervasive within the club they'll get booted from the league.

Also there will be parents looking for players on other teams not the right age or grade in school. Just report it to the league and they'll investigate + resolve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

That makes no sense.

They don’t care about playing down by choice, or playing up by choice. They need to pick a date (or three) and minimize / reduce excuses.

The trapped thing, it’s real in that it exists, what degree it matters is debatable. But they’re trying to reduce it to reduce barriers / obstacles - they want kids to have fun. Totally get it.

The +60 garbage is just an attempt to introduce waivers and loopholes to make hyper competitive but low effort families happy. Nobody cares about them, nor should they.

Just because you don't understand Math or a calendar doesn't mean SY+60 is in any way bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

The parents are the headache. The 8th graders not being able to play on their HS team during the off-season because they are not in HS…is not a club problem.

Parents make it a club problem because the feel like it’s unfair that the 8th graders’ teammates that are in HS can play for a HS team and 8th grader doesn’t have a HS team to play on because they’re in MS. Oh lord! The inequity of MS!!!! Whoa is me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SY + 60? Still don’t know what that means.

Sy+60 means for most players there's a hard cutoff of 9/1 + 12 months and all you need is an eligable birthcert to play.

However if you were born 60 days before 9/1 and can provide birthcert and evidence that you're enrolled in that grade in school even if you're technically up to 60 days older you can play with that age group.

What this does is create one rule that works in all geographies that completely addresses all trapped players. Also because you need to provide proof of enrollment in xyz grade players can't play down a grade.

End result is no trapped players and all players at events and showcases are one grade in school.

So in this system, if you’re looking at September 1, 2012 - August 31, 2013 group, if you are born in Aug or July of 2012, but can prove you’re in the same grade as the Sept 1 - Aug 31 grouping, you’re playing with that group even though you’re a little bit older?

Parents are always working an angle. I don't blame them ... Otherwise they'd be the youngest. Now they'd be the oldest. Sounds like June or May parents need to come up with their "fix" next!

9/1+364

This doesn't really change anything other than allowing hold back / regrade players.

9/1+700 still requires a valid birth cert (which they'd almost certainly have because of +700) and proof that they're enrolled in that grade at school.

The proof that you're enrolled in X grade at school is what prohibits players from playing down + keeps all players on a team a certain grade which has value for scouts.

In general you want to do 9/1+60 or 9/1+90 to completely get rid of trapped players.

It's important to choose +60 or +90 so there's a cutoff to not allow hold backs / regrades or homeschoolers from gaming the system.

Is apparently happening anyway in Lacrosse (older players playing down) because they can't implement a strong enough age verification system. People who look older just say "I'm grad" year (basically +60/+90).

If a league or event was confirming proof of birth cert and proof of enrolled grade in school what you're describing can't happen.

Well, bad age verification what they're complaining about on the lacrosse boards (and what USA lacrosse is saying they're fixing!). But maybe it's just unhinged parents.

Do you know how soccer verifies ages?

The birth certificates you submit, they don’t go any further than the club registrar or team manager.

You see clubs/teams try to sneak in older players on other kids birth certs every now and then. In Latino/Mexican leagues this is a huge problem because sometimes players don't have a birthcert.

Over time and at higher levels this won't work. Usually when leagues catch clubs doing this they get multiple forfeits in their record. If it's pervasive within the club they'll get booted from the league.

Also there will be parents looking for players on other teams not the right age or grade in school. Just report it to the league and they'll investigate + resolve.

All true. That’s not the point. The point is “age verification” is a “trust the team/club” system in soccer too. Fewer cheats in soccer because it’s a larger profile sport. Lacrosse is not. Shoot, go to a lacrosse tournament and 50% of the parents are tailgating and drinking heavily - it’s just a different sporting culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

The 9/1 to 7/31 with August kids playing with their grade approach prohibits August kids from playing down and allows all August kids to play with their grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SY + 60? Still don’t know what that means.

Sy+60 means for most players there's a hard cutoff of 9/1 + 12 months and all you need is an eligable birthcert to play.

However if you were born 60 days before 9/1 and can provide birthcert and evidence that you're enrolled in that grade in school even if you're technically up to 60 days older you can play with that age group.

What this does is create one rule that works in all geographies that completely addresses all trapped players. Also because you need to provide proof of enrollment in xyz grade players can't play down a grade.

End result is no trapped players and all players at events and showcases are one grade in school.

So in this system, if you’re looking at September 1, 2012 - August 31, 2013 group, if you are born in Aug or July of 2012, but can prove you’re in the same grade as the Sept 1 - Aug 31 grouping, you’re playing with that group even though you’re a little bit older?

Parents are always working an angle. I don't blame them ... Otherwise they'd be the youngest. Now they'd be the oldest. Sounds like June or May parents need to come up with their "fix" next!

9/1+364

This doesn't really change anything other than allowing hold back / regrade players.

9/1+700 still requires a valid birth cert (which they'd almost certainly have because of +700) and proof that they're enrolled in that grade at school.

The proof that you're enrolled in X grade at school is what prohibits players from playing down + keeps all players on a team a certain grade which has value for scouts.

In general you want to do 9/1+60 or 9/1+90 to completely get rid of trapped players.

It's important to choose +60 or +90 so there's a cutoff to not allow hold backs / regrades or homeschoolers from gaming the system.

Is apparently happening anyway in Lacrosse (older players playing down) because they can't implement a strong enough age verification system. People who look older just say "I'm grad" year (basically +60/+90).

If a league or event was confirming proof of birth cert and proof of enrolled grade in school what you're describing can't happen.

Well, bad age verification what they're complaining about on the lacrosse boards (and what USA lacrosse is saying they're fixing!). But maybe it's just unhinged parents.

Do you know how soccer verifies ages?

The birth certificates you submit, they don’t go any further than the club registrar or team manager.

You see clubs/teams try to sneak in older players on other kids birth certs every now and then. In Latino/Mexican leagues this is a huge problem because sometimes players don't have a birthcert.

Over time and at higher levels this won't work. Usually when leagues catch clubs doing this they get multiple forfeits in their record. If it's pervasive within the club they'll get booted from the league.

Also there will be parents looking for players on other teams not the right age or grade in school. Just report it to the league and they'll investigate + resolve.

All true. That’s not the point. The point is “age verification” is a “trust the team/club” system in soccer too. Fewer cheats in soccer because it’s a larger profile sport. Lacrosse is not. Shoot, go to a lacrosse tournament and 50% of the parents are tailgating and drinking heavily - it’s just a different sporting culture.

I see your point.

But at the highest levels (which is all that people really care about) you wouldn't be able to sneak in on another players birthcert or play down with faked grade enrollment info. Parents would be policing other teams like hawks looking for cheaters.

You might be able to get away with it at travel showcases but why because recruiters would be expecting a certain grad date because of SY+60 and now you'd be off track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

The 9/1 to 7/31 with August kids playing with their grade approach prohibits August kids from playing down and allows all August kids to play with their grade.

It doesn't get rid of all trapped players because some (very few) school districts start in July.

This is why SY+60 which is basically Aug and July playing with their grade using your terminology. (not just Aug)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

That makes no sense.

They don’t care about playing down by choice, or playing up by choice. They need to pick a date (or three) and minimize / reduce excuses.

The trapped thing, it’s real in that it exists, what degree it matters is debatable. But they’re trying to reduce it to reduce barriers / obstacles - they want kids to have fun. Totally get it.

The +60 garbage is just an attempt to introduce waivers and loopholes to make hyper competitive but low effort families happy. Nobody cares about them, nor should they.

Just because you don't understand Math or a calendar doesn't mean SY+60 is in any way bad.

I didn't see why they wanted 9/1 over 8/1 but this salivating over inventing some special carve out back two months when nobody in a decision making position is debating this but now I do. They know they have to keep the crazies at bay. Definitely expect 9/1 or 8/1 with no special carve outs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would ECNL want to have the continued headache of trap players and have to continue to accommodate and manage them which takes time and money and coaching resources, plus the college recruiting issue when there are still a few kids on the team that are a different grade? Fix the problem completely now and eliminate these lingering issues, using one of the methods discussed here. A blind adherence to an 8/1 or 9/1 date doesn’t facilitate a complete answer to the problem ECNL wants to fix.

You have gone full monorail salesman and should give up the pretense of being unbiased.

You keep describing grade year but ECNL doesn't want grade year, they want school year without exceptions.

Rather than pushing your Scooby Doo plan here "which just might work," you are much, much better off spamming Skip and Christian.

Anymore rubbish and you might need to register as a lobbyist...or Russian bot.

I stopped commenting a while ago.

I'm happy to see that others see the benefits of SY+60 and are advocating for it.

I still prefer BY but SY+60 works as well.

They don't, they aren't.

They are, they do.

You don't because you've already made your mind up and are an ECNL supporter.

No big deal, but when SY continues to cause issues because a hard cutoff was chosen players will flow to BY leagues.

Right. People will leave SY leagues because of their hard cut off to join BY leagues with their hard cutoffs.

9/1 to 7/31 with flex August (I.e. August birthdays bases on actual grade) remains best option. But expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Again, what you're calling "9/1 to 7/31 with flex August" is the same thing as "SY+60".

Actually, SY-31 with a side of GY. Expect hard cutoff date of 9/1 or 8/1.

Yep. But the SY +60 guy/crowd is having trouble understanding that 9/1 +60 reaches back to July 2. Whereas, 9/1 to 7/31 with flex August doesn’t reach back beyond Aug 1.

Why not 9/30 or 10/1 +60? Schools cut offs are later than 9/1.

Leagues are trying to stick with 9/1 because they don't want kids a grade up in school playing down a grade in SY.

But you can make 9/1 any date if you have a proof of enrolled grade requirement. This would keep kids a grade up from playing a grade down.

The 9/1 to 7/31 with August kids playing with their grade approach prohibits August kids from playing down and allows all August kids to play with their grade.

It doesn't get rid of all trapped players because some (very few) school districts start in July.

This is why SY+60 which is basically Aug and July playing with their grade using your terminology. (not just Aug)

July parents, your daydream will end at the end of Feb.