UVA Student Released from North Korea; Has Been in a Coma for a Year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you mind if I ask if you tend toward liberal or conservative? I'm getting "hints" that much of the hatred is coming from the left,but I could be wrong.

NP. I'm a liberal and totally sympathize with Otto Warmbier. My heart aches for his parents. Thousands of tourists go to North Korea every year and the worst that happens to them is that their camera gets confiscated. He did not deserve to die.

NP here. I'm very ignorant about tourism in N Korea and would never travel there. Didn't realize they had so many tourists. Do you mean families? I would never take that risk.

yeah, I was just going through a mental note of my "yet to visit" destinations, and on my list are Spain/Portugal and Australia/New Zealand. I will tell you that I plan to go to my grave without having set foot in North Korea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you mind if I ask if you tend toward liberal or conservative? I'm getting "hints" that much of the hatred is coming from the left,but I could be wrong.

NP. I'm a liberal and totally sympathize with Otto Warmbier. My heart aches for his parents. Thousands of tourists go to North Korea every year and the worst that happens to them is that their camera gets confiscated. He did not deserve to die.

NP here. I'm very ignorant about tourism in N Korea and would never travel there. Didn't realize they had so many tourists. Do you mean families? I would never take that risk.

About 4,000 to 6,000 Western tourists visit North Korea every year. Tourists can only go on organized tours and are not allowed to walk around by themselves. At the end of the visit, you give your camera to an official/soldier and he goes through it deleting any pictures he wants to.

PP who asked. Thx for this info. If you posted the pics, thx for those as well. All looks friendly and inviting, but I'd be waaay too fearful to travel there.

To me it doesn't look friendly or inviting. There are soldiers everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:situation. You are a representation of the oppressor from years past and you also get to enjoy white privilege which makes you automatically unworthy of sympathy.

Well said.

I believe Otto was Jewish.

Maybe that's why Obama wrote him off.

Could that have had something to do with why Otto was singled out for such reprehensible treatment? (I have no idea how NK views Jews, but as soon as I hit submit, I'm going to research.)

Probably not. All Western/white people are looked down upon as inferior and uncultured. He went on a restricted floor of his hotel and in the North Koreans' mind was trying to sabotage the regime. They probably didn't mean for him to die, but who know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, it sounds like "La Sha" was raised in a hate filled home, so I am not at all surprised by her response to this tragedy.

I just don't get the double standard.

On one hand, we have an ex-con with prison time for assault, banishing a stolen gun near a schoolyard, and defying police who ordered him 11 times to drop his gun - and the encounter ends in his swift death. Liberals are bemoaning the fate of the man, whom they refuse to admit had any role in his demise. He was black.

On the other hand, we have a 21-year-old student at UVA, who had completed a semester at the London School of Economics and was studying abroad. He makes a stupid mistake in taking a poster (if he even did), never threatened anyone, never imprisoned for assault. But he is not only killed, he endures a horrific experience and Lord-knows-what before it all ends. Yet, we have people saying he's an idiot who deserved it, and is responsible for his own actions. He was white.

Why all the sympathy and excuses for a violent ex-con and the disgusting lack of compassion for a college kid who never hurt anyone? The difference is black and white. (Double meaning intended.)

White tears

Not true at all. Many people would agree with PP.

I'm the PP (who outlined the difference between the two deaths), and I had to look up the term "white tears." Now that I know its meaning, I would say that the responder who used it proves my point even further. Why is the violent ex-con who has assault on his record a more sympathetic figure than a college kid who never hurt anyone? I feel much worse for this kid and what he went through than I do for the ex-con. The college kid suffered much worse.

The college kid suffered much worse at the end of his life; the ex-con likely suffered just as much in the beginning.

As bad as growing up in poverty can be in America, the majority of poor people still have air-conditioning, microwaves, color TV, and a car - to say nothing of the luxury of sleeping in a bed. I sure hope you're not comparing the plight of a poor black kid to the torture of a North Korean prison camp.

Link please to support that the "majority of poor people still have AC, microwaves, beds, etc." And even if that were true (which I'll wait to see some objective support for), there's more to raising a child than having AC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, it sounds like "La Sha" was raised in a hate filled home, so I am not at all surprised by her response to this tragedy.

I just don't get the double standard.

On one hand, we have an ex-con with prison time for assault, banishing a stolen gun near a schoolyard, and defying police who ordered him 11 times to drop his gun - and the encounter ends in his swift death. Liberals are bemoaning the fate of the man, whom they refuse to admit had any role in his demise. He was black.

On the other hand, we have a 21-year-old student at UVA, who had completed a semester at the London School of Economics and was studying abroad. He makes a stupid mistake in taking a poster (if he even did), never threatened anyone, never imprisoned for assault. But he is not only killed, he endures a horrific experience and Lord-knows-what before it all ends. Yet, we have people saying he's an idiot who deserved it, and is responsible for his own actions. He was white.

Why all the sympathy and excuses for a violent ex-con and the disgusting lack of compassion for a college kid who never hurt anyone? The difference is black and white. (Double meaning intended.)

White tears

Not true at all. Many people would agree with PP.

I'm the PP (who outlined the difference between the two deaths), and I had to look up the term "white tears." Now that I know its meaning, I would say that the responder who used it proves my point even further. Why is the violent ex-con who has assault on his record a more sympathetic figure than a college kid who never hurt anyone? I feel much worse for this kid and what he went through than I do for the ex-con. The college kid suffered much worse.

The college kid suffered much worse at the end of his life; the ex-con likely suffered just as much in the beginning.

As bad as growing up in poverty can be in America, the majority of poor people still have air-conditioning, microwaves, color TV, and a car - to say nothing of the luxury of sleeping in a bed. I sure hope you're not comparing the plight of a poor black kid to the torture of a North Korean prison camp.

Link please to support that the "majority of poor people still have AC, microwaves, beds, etc." And even if that were true (which I'll wait to see some objective support for), there's more to raising a child than having AC.

I have no idea what either of you are arguing about, but it is a fact that children in North Korea have it much worse than American children in poverty. Malnutrition and lack of medical care and dental care are a problem in the US, but not to the extent as in North Korea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fred Warmbier criticized the Obama administration for not doing enough to secure his son’s release.

“With the last administration, Otto seemed to be an unwanted distraction, and they urged us to keep quiet. Now the new administration is there, so we’ve decided to start speaking out,” he said in April.

“We know that the administration has been challenged by bigger issues than Otto, but we don’t understand why diplomacy on a different track to get Otto and the other detainees out can’t be going on at the same time,” Warmbier’s mother Cindy added.

Raise your hand if your are shocked that this kid's parents put pressure on the Obama Administration to get their kid home. Of course they did.

Of course, it would have been far simpler if they had put pressure on their kid not to go to North Korea in the first place...

Obama should have done more. What a shit President he was.

Obama should have helped the people in Syria also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you mind if I ask if you tend toward liberal or conservative? I'm getting "hints" that much of the hatred is coming from the left,but I could be wrong.

NP. I'm a liberal and totally sympathize with Otto Warmbier. My heart aches for his parents. Thousands of tourists go to North Korea every year and the worst that happens to them is that their camera gets confiscated. He did not deserve to die.

NP here. I'm very ignorant about tourism in N Korea and would never travel there. Didn't realize they had so many tourists. Do you mean families? I would never take that risk.

About 4,000 to 6,000 Western tourists visit North Korea every year. Tourists can only go on organized tours and are not allowed to walk around by themselves. At the end of the visit, you give your camera to an official/soldier and he goes through it deleting any pictures he wants to.

PP who asked. Thx for this info. If you posted the pics, thx for those as well. All looks friendly and inviting, but I'd be waaay too fearful to travel there.

To me it doesn't look friendly or inviting. There are soldiers everywhere.

PP here. Let me clarify...smiling tourists. Believe me, I won't be traveling there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, it sounds like "La Sha" was raised in a hate filled home, so I am not at all surprised by her response to this tragedy.

I just don't get the double standard.

On one hand, we have an ex-con with prison time for assault, banishing a stolen gun near a schoolyard, and defying police who ordered him 11 times to drop his gun - and the encounter ends in his swift death. Liberals are bemoaning the fate of the man, whom they refuse to admit had any role in his demise. He was black.

On the other hand, we have a 21-year-old student at UVA, who had completed a semester at the London School of Economics and was studying abroad. He makes a stupid mistake in taking a poster (if he even did), never threatened anyone, never imprisoned for assault. But he is not only killed, he endures a horrific experience and Lord-knows-what before it all ends. Yet, we have people saying he's an idiot who deserved it, and is responsible for his own actions. He was white.

Why all the sympathy and excuses for a violent ex-con and the disgusting lack of compassion for a college kid who never hurt anyone? The difference is black and white. (Double meaning intended.)

White tears

Not true at all. Many people would agree with PP.

I'm the PP (who outlined the difference between the two deaths), and I had to look up the term "white tears." Now that I know its meaning, I would say that the responder who used it proves my point even further. Why is the violent ex-con who has assault on his record a more sympathetic figure than a college kid who never hurt anyone? I feel much worse for this kid and what he went through than I do for the ex-con. The college kid suffered much worse.

The college kid suffered much worse at the end of his life; the ex-con likely suffered just as much in the beginning.

As bad as growing up in poverty can be in America, the majority of poor people still have air-conditioning, microwaves, color TV, and a car - to say nothing of the luxury of sleeping in a bed. I sure hope you're not comparing the plight of a poor black kid to the torture of a North Korean prison camp.

Link please to support that the "majority of poor people still have AC, microwaves, beds, etc." And even if that were true (which I'll wait to see some objective support for), there's more to raising a child than having AC.

That's not the point. Were you the one who tried to say the violent ex-felon who wouldn't drop his gun (after the cops had told him to 11 times) had it just as bad in the beginning of his life as Otto did at the end of his? Are you honestly trying to say that it's just as awful to be a poor black child in America as it is to be sentenced to hard labor in a North Korean prison camp? Why does everything have to turn into the Oppression Olympics? News flash: There are worse things than growing up black and in poverty, and a sentence of 15 years in a North Korean prison camp is one of them.

And as far as the stats on poverty, I have them - and with a strong source - but I don't want this thread to go in another direction. This is about Otto, and why blacks are so sympathetic to an ex-felon with an assault record and have a "WGAF" attitude toward a white college kid who never hurt anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fred Warmbier criticized the Obama administration for not doing enough to secure his son’s release.

“With the last administration, Otto seemed to be an unwanted distraction, and they urged us to keep quiet. Now the new administration is there, so we’ve decided to start speaking out,” he said in April.

“We know that the administration has been challenged by bigger issues than Otto, but we don’t understand why diplomacy on a different track to get Otto and the other detainees out can’t be going on at the same time,” Warmbier’s mother Cindy added.

Raise your hand if your are shocked that this kid's parents put pressure on the Obama Administration to get their kid home. Of course they did.

Of course, it would have been far simpler if they had put pressure on their kid not to go to North Korea in the first place...

Obama should have done more. What a shit President he was.

Obama should have helped the people in Syria also.

Obama was a big chicken. Red line, my foot.

[Anonymous]

This thread needs to be locked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread needs to be locked.

Why? It's a valid observation that there was an outpouring of sympathy for an ex-felon who lost his life in one fell swoop and an attitude of "he deserved it" for an accomplished college student who suffered for weeks or months on end. It's worth it to uncover the attitudes that bely the compassion for one and the seeming hatred for the other, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread needs to be locked.

Why? It's a valid observation that there was an outpouring of sympathy for an ex-felon who lost his life in one fell swoop and an attitude of "he deserved it" for an accomplished college student who suffered for weeks or months on end. It's worth it to uncover the attitudes that bely the compassion for one and the seeming hatred for the other, no?

No.
No one is making this point. You brought it up as a straw man argument to smear liberals and no one is defending this point. As an anonymous forum, you can't conflate those who find fault with Otto in this thread with others who defend whoever this "black ex-felon" is in another thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, it sounds like "La Sha" was raised in a hate filled home, so I am not at all surprised by her response to this tragedy.

I just don't get the double standard.

On one hand, we have an ex-con with prison time for assault, banishing a stolen gun near a schoolyard, and defying police who ordered him 11 times to drop his gun - and the encounter ends in his swift death. Liberals are bemoaning the fate of the man, whom they refuse to admit had any role in his demise. He was black.

On the other hand, we have a 21-year-old student at UVA, who had completed a semester at the London School of Economics and was studying abroad. He makes a stupid mistake in taking a poster (if he even did), never threatened anyone, never imprisoned for assault. But he is not only killed, he endures a horrific experience and Lord-knows-what before it all ends. Yet, we have people saying he's an idiot who deserved it, and is responsible for his own actions. He was white.

Why all the sympathy and excuses for a violent ex-con and the disgusting lack of compassion for a college kid who never hurt anyone? The difference is black and white. (Double meaning intended.)

White tears

Not true at all. Many people would agree with PP.

I'm the PP (who outlined the difference between the two deaths), and I had to look up the term "white tears." Now that I know its meaning, I would say that the responder who used it proves my point even further. Why is the violent ex-con who has assault on his record a more sympathetic figure than a college kid who never hurt anyone? I feel much worse for this kid and what he went through than I do for the ex-con. The college kid suffered much worse.

The college kid suffered much worse at the end of his life; the ex-con likely suffered just as much in the beginning.

As bad as growing up in poverty can be in America, the majority of poor people still have air-conditioning, microwaves, color TV, and a car - to say nothing of the luxury of sleeping in a bed. I sure hope you're not comparing the plight of a poor black kid to the torture of a North Korean prison camp.

Link please to support that the "majority of poor people still have AC, microwaves, beds, etc." And even if that were true (which I'll wait to see some objective support for), there's more to raising a child than having AC.

That's not the point. Were you the one who tried to say the violent ex-felon who wouldn't drop his gun (after the cops had told him to 11 times) had it just as bad in the beginning of his life as Otto did at the end of his? Are you honestly trying to say that it's just as awful to be a poor black child in America as it is to be sentenced to hard labor in a North Korean prison camp? Why does everything have to turn into the Oppression Olympics? News flash: There are worse things than growing up black and in poverty, and a sentence of 15 years in a North Korean prison camp is one of them.

And as far as the stats on poverty, I have them - and with a strong source - but I don't want this thread to go in another direction. This is about Otto, and why blacks are so sympathetic to an ex-felon with an assault record and have a "WGAF" attitude toward a white college kid who never hurt anyone.

So now it's not the point? How convenient.

There are kids of all races in this country who suffer terrible abuse and many of them live in abject poverty and grow up to be criminals. You're happy to write that suffering off and seemingly have no regard for small children who wonder if they'll eat or be safe, at the very least. If you're 3 years old and don't know if you're going to eat or get burned by a cigarette, you're suffering. Unfortunately, kids can't control the families and circumstances they're born into. Otto, though, made the choice to visit a country that hates the US and is led by a notoriously unstable person. I'm sincerely sorry for him that his choice had terrible and disproportionate consequences, but he made that choice.

And, I'll wait for this strong source you have. A link shouldn't derail the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread needs to be locked.

Why? It's a valid observation that there was an outpouring of sympathy for an ex-felon who lost his life in one fell swoop and an attitude of "he deserved it" for an accomplished college student who suffered for weeks or months on end. It's worth it to uncover the attitudes that bely the compassion for one and the seeming hatred for the other, no?

No.
No one is making this point. You brought it up as a straw man argument to smear liberals and no one is defending this point. As an anonymous forum, you can't conflate those who find fault with Otto in this thread with others who defend whoever this "black ex-felon" is in another thread.

Actually, you have a point there. They are not necessarily the same people defending the ex-felon and saying "he deserved it" with Otto. You're right.

So separating out those two issues, I am still appalled at the lack of compassion for this young man and his family. May he RIP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread needs to be locked.

Why? It's a valid observation that there was an outpouring of sympathy for an ex-felon who lost his life in one fell swoop and an attitude of "he deserved it" for an accomplished college student who suffered for weeks or months on end. It's worth it to uncover the attitudes that bely the compassion for one and the seeming hatred for the other, no?

Since when is expecting that people deal with the consequences of their actions considered hatred? Who wouldn't expect that going to North Korea could be deadly dangerous? That doesn't mean it's deserved, just that it's the reality. No one hates Otto and it isn't mutually exclusive to think that Otto was responsible for his own terrible demise and still feel badly for him that it ended up that way.