Chevy Chase Community Center Redevelopment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Um.

I’m sure there is some small number of local supporters, but if the hundreds of local residents I know, I really can’t say I know any supportive of this project.

I just see a lot of people on here claiming to be local and are supportive of the project, and wanted to make sure it is clear that is a minority of local residents.

You don’t know hundreds of residents in the community…why make up something nonsensical like that.

You are leaving out the largest group by far…those that are indifferent to the project. That is easily 80%+ of the area.

I live in the area and really don’t care much about the development in general because it feels at best 5 years away and probably more before anything may happen.

Most of us no longer use the community center or library because they are awful and don’t offer the community much. It is hard to care much about what happens to an area that is not much used by the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

You are here (on Christmas no less). Why would developers feel the need to post on an anonymous forum that carries no weight with any decision maker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

I think it is really fascinating that you can not fathom that there are people without a direct financial stake who support this project. Some people are passionate about addressing the housing problem, who prefer denser neighborhoods environments for the benefits it brings, and/or who bristle at people who are so vehemently against change that they cannot even see that there is a valid other view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Um.

I’m sure there is some small number of local supporters, but if the hundreds of local residents I know, I really can’t say I know any supportive of this project.

I just see a lot of people on here claiming to be local and are supportive of the project, and wanted to make sure it is clear that is a minority of local residents.

You don’t know hundreds of residents in the community…why make up something nonsensical like that.

You are leaving out the largest group by far…those that are indifferent to the project. That is easily 80%+ of the area.

I live in the area and really don’t care much about the development in general because it feels at best 5 years away and probably more before anything may happen.

Most of us no longer use the community center or library because they are awful and don’t offer the community much. It is hard to care much about what happens to an area that is not much used by the community.

I have lived in this community for 20+ years and have been very active in the community - church, boards, civic groups, etc. I absolutely know hundreds of community members, and I’m not sure why that is hard to grasp.

Of course the majority of people aren’t aware of this project, that is why I’m working my ass off to make sure everybody is aware of the monstrosity that is being railroaded into our community behind our back with no real public outreach. That is why I am discussing it with you.

And again, I don’t know anybody who is against renovating/replacing the library and civic center. I’m all for that! What we oppose is the city stealing private land and gifting it to their favored developers to build fancy new apartments where our infrastructure cannot handle it. If they want to renovate or replace the library and civic center, they should renegade or replace the civic center and library, full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Um.

I’m sure there is some small number of local supporters, but if the hundreds of local residents I know, I really can’t say I know any supportive of this project.

I just see a lot of people on here claiming to be local and are supportive of the project, and wanted to make sure it is clear that is a minority of local residents.

You don’t know hundreds of residents in the community…why make up something nonsensical like that.

You are leaving out the largest group by far…those that are indifferent to the project. That is easily 80%+ of the area.

I live in the area and really don’t care much about the development in general because it feels at best 5 years away and probably more before anything may happen.

Most of us no longer use the community center or library because they are awful and don’t offer the community much. It is hard to care much about what happens to an area that is not much used by the community.

I have lived in this community for 20+ years and have been very active in the community - church, boards, civic groups, etc. I absolutely know hundreds of community members, and I’m not sure why that is hard to grasp.

Of course the majority of people aren’t aware of this project, that is why I’m working my ass off to make sure everybody is aware of the monstrosity that is being railroaded into our community behind our back with no real public outreach. That is why I am discussing it with you.

And again, I don’t know anybody who is against renovating/replacing the library and civic center. I’m all for that! What we oppose is the city stealing private land and gifting it to their favored developers to build fancy new apartments where our infrastructure cannot handle it. If they want to renovate or replace the library and civic center, they should renegade or replace the civic center and library, full stop.

Can you explain how this is happening “behind our back” and without community outreach? Specifically what additional actions do you believe should be taken to engage?

Also, can you help me understand how this project entails “the city stealing private land” and how it would be “gifted”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

One person who spoke out against this development out of dozens at the most recent anc meetings was non white and looked under the age of 60. So yeah, there is that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

The entitled white boomers sowed that division by being nearly uniformly against this project (and everything else in the area that would be a change). And then, lol, having the gall to refer to themselves as "middle class" sitting on their 6-7x property values while trying to lock the hood down based on historical designation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Um.

I’m sure there is some small number of local supporters, but if the hundreds of local residents I know, I really can’t say I know any supportive of this project.

I just see a lot of people on here claiming to be local and are supportive of the project, and wanted to make sure it is clear that is a minority of local residents.

You don’t know hundreds of residents in the community…why make up something nonsensical like that.

You are leaving out the largest group by far…those that are indifferent to the project. That is easily 80%+ of the area.

I live in the area and really don’t care much about the development in general because it feels at best 5 years away and probably more before anything may happen.

Most of us no longer use the community center or library because they are awful and don’t offer the community much. It is hard to care much about what happens to an area that is not much used by the community.

I have lived in this community for 20+ years and have been very active in the community - church, boards, civic groups, etc. I absolutely know hundreds of community members, and I’m not sure why that is hard to grasp.

Of course the majority of people aren’t aware of this project, that is why I’m working my ass off to make sure everybody is aware of the monstrosity that is being railroaded into our community behind our back with no real public outreach. That is why I am discussing it with you.

And again, I don’t know anybody who is against renovating/replacing the library and civic center. I’m all for that! What we oppose is the city stealing private land and gifting it to their favored developers to build fancy new apartments where our infrastructure cannot handle it. If they want to renovate or replace the library and civic center, they should renegade or replace the civic center
and library, full stop.

Yeah, and I have served on 6 local boards for sports, church and school and may have encountered hundreds of people, but don’t know hundreds of people. So, cut the nonsense.

You aren’t paying attention. We are aware of it, but are indifferent. What happens at the the community center is just a non-event. What exists sucks and is barely used and we could care less what happens to it. Bulldoze it and put up a Walmart…we don’t care.

Why you and others think it’s the end of the world is just a mystery. You have too much time on your hands is all I can figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a dumpster fire right now. Everything the city touches turns to ash. Why would anyone trust its judgment to take on a project that would impact the neighborhood enormously?

Exactly. How many times have we heard activists saying "This won't cause any problems at all and anyone who thinks it will is racist"? Decriminalize fare evasion, reduce the police force, the voucher program, the homeless shelters, etc. And now activists are saying we need to ignore all of the bad policies that they were pushing before because this time it's different? They don't even pause to reconsider the messes they've made, it's just immediately on to the next thing.

Five years from now they'll be saying "why are you bringing up the huge failure of the Chevy Chase Community Center development? This new project we're pushing is completely different."

Bullshit. 5 years from now you'll be getting your latte and chocolate crossiant from some trendy shop in what used to be the old community center site and saying to your friend 'can't believe *people* opossed this redevelopment years ago', ignoring that you were one of them.

There's already a quite nice place across the street to get a latte and a chocolate croissant. Do you really know the community, or is this yet another site for generic dense mixed-used sameness?

I want to get back to this post, as I believe it most clearly and succinctly identifies the impasse here.

The supporters of this “redevelopment” are not people who live in the neighborhood or have basically any idea about the neighborhood. They are - and I should say clearly, mostly well meaning - outsiders who were told that Chevy Chase is this wealthy, white enclave completely separate from the city, and that it has no apartments and is fighting against poor people moving into their exclusive enclave.

What they don’t realize is that all of that is just smoke and mirrors. Chevy Chase is one of the few primarily-low density residential, middle-to-upper-middle class neighborhoods in the city with a diverse, engaging community centered around a thriving commercial core that would be detrimentally impacted should these plans come to fruition. They don’t realize this because they don’t come up here to have a lovely scone and coffee at Bread & Chocolate, or get their hair cut at the wonderful family barber shop owned and operated by a first-generation Latino family, or enjoy some of the Best Greek Food in the city at Parthenon Restaurant, or grab a six pack at Magruders while chatting with the wonderful cashier who has been working there since you were a kid.

In short, they mean well, but they do not understand how important that community center and library is, and how big a loss they would be to this community. To those that support this plan, I ask that before you railroad through a plan that will further damage one of the few remaining middle class neighborhoods in this city against our wishes, that you actually come up here and walk down Connecticut Avenue, and enjoy a coffee at Bread and Chocolate, grab a bite to eat at Parthenon, get a haircut at the barber shop, but a six pack at Magruders, and see a show at the Avalon. Then, if you still think your hair rained scheme is a good one, I will look you in the eye and explain why you are wrong, but at least I can respect you.

I live less than a block from the community center, probably closer to it than you do. I support the proposal. Your post is way off in terms of what people "want."

Why do you support it?

Because the current library and community center are woefully out of date and in disrepair, the surface parking lot is an eyesore and rat hole and the "green space" is meager and underutilized. Rethinking the entire block for 21st century living, with some new residents will make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. I am perfectly fine with adding whatever units of affordable housing for people who work in the community - our firefighters, our policemen, our teachers, the clerk at Broad Branch Market, Safeway etc. This isn't section 8 or voucher housing, this is working people who should have an opportunity to live in the community where they work and "serve"

But to listen to my neighbors waxing poetic about two buildings that are falling apart and never had any architectural charm to begin with, along with a surface parking lot and some scraggley trees as something special borders on offensive.

I would also add, as someone who came into this debate agnostic, and reading posts on the neighborhood email group, it became offensive to listen to 1) the repeated false claims of the opponents. Repeating things that are easily disproven and that had been disproven many times simply undermined their credibility 2) the tacit racism expressed by many, without any recognition, even when gently pointed out, was appalling, and also appalling was many of my neighbors treatment of the volunteer ANC commissioners who have spent probably hundreds of unpaid hours dealing with the issue.

There is so much entitlement and latching on to a mythical past that doesn't exist without any sort of vision or embracing of a better future is just myopic.

Does that help?

the parking lot is not an eyesore and it is very useful

It is an asphalt parking lot that contributes to the heat-island effect and stormwater run-off. Thus, an eyesore and bad for the environment. We can and should do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Then you need to get out of your bubble. Many of my neighbors are for it. Some are opposed, and some are massively opposed. Perhaps some of your neighbors understand you are unhinged on the issue and simply nod their head in agreement so you won't Karen them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

What difference does it make that it is Christmas?

What other affordable housing is going up in Upper Northwest? Please be specific on location and number of units. If anything, on Christmas, we should be cheering for opportunities to provide housing for people who need the help, you know, act Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if some developer wants to build more of the same generic-looking upmarket apartments like are going up around Upper NW Washington. But it ticks me off that DC would be taking public assets to create an even more profitable opportunity for some developer to do more of the same. Say no to the Chevy Chase giveaway.

The city is taking its own airights to provide affordable housing. There isn't a "giveaway" - the developer is putting up money to build the units and will recoup that money over time.

Again, no one wants this apart from the developer, the mayor who is enriched by the developer and some bike bros who think greater density will help their cause.

There are thousands of your neighbors who support this. Why are you marginalizing their voices?

Thousands of our neighbors? Or thousands of random people who claimed to be neighbors but actually lives miles away?

As someone in the area, I do not know any of my neighbors actually in the area that support this corrupt gift to private developers. Everyone I have talked to in real life have been solidly against this boondoggle, ranging from mildly annoyed about the loss of public land to private interests, to having already put their house on the market due to the project, and everywhere in between.

Sure, some might not be loudly up in arms about it, and for a small portion it might only be seen as a mild inconvenience, but despite claims on here to the contrary, I have yet to meet someone from the neighborhood in real life who is even mildly supportive of the project. Hell, even the older lady who was knocking on doors in support of the project on our street was from some church in SW DC, not local. I’m not sure how they thought that was okay, but just goes to show how little DC cares about local residents’ opinion.

Um.

I’m sure there is some small number of local supporters, but if the hundreds of local residents I know, I really can’t say I know any supportive of this project.

I just see a lot of people on here claiming to be local and are supportive of the project, and wanted to make sure it is clear that is a minority of local residents.

You don’t know hundreds of residents in the community…why make up something nonsensical like that.

You are leaving out the largest group by far…those that are indifferent to the project. That is easily 80%+ of the area.

I live in the area and really don’t care much about the development in general because it feels at best 5 years away and probably more before anything may happen.

Most of us no longer use the community center or library because they are awful and don’t offer the community much. It is hard to care much about what happens to an area that is not much used by the community.

I have lived in this community for 20+ years and have been very active in the community - church, boards, civic groups, etc. I absolutely know hundreds of community members, and I’m not sure why that is hard to grasp.

Of course the majority of people aren’t aware of this project, that is why I’m working my ass off to make sure everybody is aware of the monstrosity that is being railroaded into our community behind our back with no real public outreach. That is why I am discussing it with you.

And again, I don’t know anybody who is against renovating/replacing the library and civic center. I’m all for that! What we oppose is the city stealing private land and gifting it to their favored developers to build fancy new apartments where our infrastructure cannot handle it. If they want to renovate or replace the library and civic center, they should renegade or replace the civic center and library, full stop.

So basically you are in a bubble of group-think single family boomers. We get it. if you are over 60 and have lived in a single family home in Chevy Chase for over 20-25 years, you are opposed to this development.

However, that demographic is a small minority of people who live in Chevy Chase, DC. There are thousands of renters who were not accurately represented in the survey. There are newer, younger residents who support the project. If you REALLY wanted to get out into the community to get a diverse set of views, you wouldn't be relying on the people you commonly associate with, which are not people like me or others I talk to in the community who support it with open arms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

What difference does it make that it is Christmas?

What other affordable housing is going up in Upper Northwest? Please be specific on location and number of units. If anything, on Christmas, we should be cheering for opportunities to provide housing for people who need the help, you know, act Christian.

You are deluding yourself if you think this will be affordable housing. If you read a number of postings on this thread from proponents of the development they are very careful not to commit to any affordable housing percentage or number. A few say it will at least contain the legally required minimum, which is a meagre 8 percent. That’s the percentage at City Ridge and the large building on Connecticut and Military. Why then should a public site be given over to private development with no assurances that it won’t just be more of the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nick, Ed and Lance?

Nick = Nick DellaDonne, the erstwhile bike opponent who has been caught on video yelling at children with a megaphone.

No idea who Ed and Lance are.

Ed Hanlon, his buddy attorney who Chevy Choice Voice retained. Lance is a lackey of theirs who is a frequent agitator on the AdMo listserv and in the public meetings.

Anyway, while certainly they hate bikes and cyclists, the thing they dislike even more is affordable housing and change in the neighborhoods of the city that takes the form of development.

These "nothing can/should ever change because its perfect the way it is" fools. Bound to show up a community meeting or development site near you.

Change for the sake of change or unneeded density also is a real problem.

…and some ideas are just bad. Of course people would show up to community meetings to complain.

At ones 10 neighborhoods or more away from where they live?

So people in the neighborhood should be heard more loudly than people outside the neighborhood? We should listen to the survey? Ok, fine by me.

Please let the YIMBY shills know that they should mind their own business…it’s not their backyard, anyway.

Exactly, it's the bike lobby bro/greater greater washington nexus. Mainly white dudes trying to ruin things.

How very droll of the entitled, white, boomer who adamantly believes their way of life is perfect and all others should just accept that.

NP, here. What makes you think anyone here is white or boomer? My family isn't and we oppose this. But your snarkiness puts a microscope on your prejudices. Whenever someone says something you don't like, you decide to try to say they're entitled or old or white. When you very most likely are white and entitled yourself. Why does your voice matter more than others?

Because if you look at the results of the ANC survey, they overwhelming respondents who were oversampled in the results, were aging white boomers who are opposed to the redevelopment. But I am a different posted than who you are responding to. That would be my guess.

It’s really hard to fathom why anyone would be cheerleading so hard (on Christmas no less) for fancy housing on this civic site when there are other buildings and developments going up around upper Northwest. One assumes that the cheerleader either is a developer who hopes to scoop up an opportunity on favorable terms or someone being paid by a developer, an investor group, or maybe the DC planning office. In any event, the attempt to sow division based on race and age is offensive. It’s a real estate project.

What difference does it make that it is Christmas?

What other affordable housing is going up in Upper Northwest? Please be specific on location and number of units. If anything, on Christmas, we should be cheering for opportunities to provide housing for people who need the help, you know, act Christian.

You are deluding yourself if you think this will be affordable housing. If you read a number of postings on this thread from proponents of the development they are very careful not to commit to any affordable housing percentage or number. A few say it will at least contain the legally required minimum, which is a meagre 8 percent. That’s the percentage at City Ridge and the large building on Connecticut and Military. Why then should a public site be given over to private development with no assurances that it won’t just be more of the same?

We won't know until we see the RFP and the responses to the RFP. The whole point of this project is that the finances work to maximize affordable housing because the city owns it and that is what it wants there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is a dumpster fire right now. Everything the city touches turns to ash. Why would anyone trust its judgment to take on a project that would impact the neighborhood enormously?

Exactly. How many times have we heard activists saying "This won't cause any problems at all and anyone who thinks it will is racist"? Decriminalize fare evasion, reduce the police force, the voucher program, the homeless shelters, etc. And now activists are saying we need to ignore all of the bad policies that they were pushing before because this time it's different? They don't even pause to reconsider the messes they've made, it's just immediately on to the next thing.

Five years from now they'll be saying "why are you bringing up the huge failure of the Chevy Chase Community Center development? This new project we're pushing is completely different."

Bullshit. 5 years from now you'll be getting your latte and chocolate crossiant from some trendy shop in what used to be the old community center site and saying to your friend 'can't believe *people* opossed this redevelopment years ago', ignoring that you were one of them.

There's already a quite nice place across the street to get a latte and a chocolate croissant. Do you really know the community, or is this yet another site for generic dense mixed-used sameness?

I want to get back to this post, as I believe it most clearly and succinctly identifies the impasse here.

The supporters of this “redevelopment” are not people who live in the neighborhood or have basically any idea about the neighborhood. They are - and I should say clearly, mostly well meaning - outsiders who were told that Chevy Chase is this wealthy, white enclave completely separate from the city, and that it has no apartments and is fighting against poor people moving into their exclusive enclave.

What they don’t realize is that all of that is just smoke and mirrors. Chevy Chase is one of the few primarily-low density residential, middle-to-upper-middle class neighborhoods in the city with a diverse, engaging community centered around a thriving commercial core that would be detrimentally impacted should these plans come to fruition. They don’t realize this because they don’t come up here to have a lovely scone and coffee at Bread & Chocolate, or get their hair cut at the wonderful family barber shop owned and operated by a first-generation Latino family, or enjoy some of the Best Greek Food in the city at Parthenon Restaurant, or grab a six pack at Magruders while chatting with the wonderful cashier who has been working there since you were a kid.

In short, they mean well, but they do not understand how important that community center and library is, and how big a loss they would be to this community. To those that support this plan, I ask that before you railroad through a plan that will further damage one of the few remaining middle class neighborhoods in this city against our wishes, that you actually come up here and walk down Connecticut Avenue, and enjoy a coffee at Bread and Chocolate, grab a bite to eat at Parthenon, get a haircut at the barber shop, but a six pack at Magruders, and see a show at the Avalon. Then, if you still think your hair rained scheme is a good one, I will look you in the eye and explain why you are wrong, but at least I can respect you.

I live less than a block from the community center, probably closer to it than you do. I support the proposal. Your post is way off in terms of what people "want."

Why do you support it?

Because the current library and community center are woefully out of date and in disrepair, the surface parking lot is an eyesore and rat hole and the "green space" is meager and underutilized. Rethinking the entire block for 21st century living, with some new residents will make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. I am perfectly fine with adding whatever units of affordable housing for people who work in the community - our firefighters, our policemen, our teachers, the clerk at Broad Branch Market, Safeway etc. This isn't section 8 or voucher housing, this is working people who should have an opportunity to live in the community where they work and "serve"

But to listen to my neighbors waxing poetic about two buildings that are falling apart and never had any architectural charm to begin with, along with a surface parking lot and some scraggley trees as something special borders on offensive.

I would also add, as someone who came into this debate agnostic, and reading posts on the neighborhood email group, it became offensive to listen to 1) the repeated false claims of the opponents. Repeating things that are easily disproven and that had been disproven many times simply undermined their credibility 2) the tacit racism expressed by many, without any recognition, even when gently pointed out, was appalling, and also appalling was many of my neighbors treatment of the volunteer ANC commissioners who have spent probably hundreds of unpaid hours dealing with the issue.

There is so much entitlement and latching on to a mythical past that doesn't exist without any sort of vision or embracing of a better future is just myopic.

Does that help?

the parking lot is not an eyesore and it is very useful

It is an asphalt parking lot that contributes to the heat-island effect and stormwater run-off. Thus, an eyesore and bad for the environment. We can and should do better.

This rear parking lot is being programmed for dense and tall development, not just the “developed” portion of the property along Connecticut Avenue. That’s why there’s a full court press to remove an old covenant that bars commercial and apartment development on the rear parking lot portion of the site. There is no such covenant on the front portion along Connecticut Ave, which is why the argument that the covenant should be presumed to have racist intent is so preposterous and offensive. It’s pretty clear that it was to provide a transitional buffer between denser commercial and apartment development and the low density residential areas to the east. If the whole site is redeveloped with taller density, that transition goes away.