ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

BY parents want the advantage and F everything else…. They need to just be honest and say that they want their kids to play against younger kids….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the pro players kid?

Major league baseball player. Both he and his dad were MLB. The daughter has freakish abilities + you can tell that if she worked at it could get 10x better.

It's amazing to watch a player that's bigger faster younger etc etc etc + everything is just natural ability.

Natural ability has a limited shelf life

I saw Trinity Rodman play as a youth for Blues at Surf Cup. I've seen ridiculous youth natural ability.

For many natural ability does fade. But for some it does not. They will always be bigger, faster, and stronger than their competition.

These are the type of players that are on pro and national teams. RAE doesn't come into the picture. These are also the type of players on top youth teams.

RAE might matter at the littles rec levels but it does not at the highest youth competitive levels. This is why ECNL partnering with littles leagues on SY isn't a good choice. If you're playing at the highest levels SY or BY doesn't matter.

Rodman is probably one of the most overrated players ever. She has the soccer IQ of a middle schooler, the soccer skill of a HSer, in the body of an elite athlete. Almost every game she plays I want to throw the remote. For every highlight, she makes 50 boneheaded mistakes that are totally unacceptable for a NT player.

Pretty strong opinion.

What I saw was a player who's natural ability was off the charts. This likely opened doors because every coach thinks they can teach IQ.

Either way her natural ability trumped all the RAE zealots explanation about how the world works.

Q2 birthday under BY since about age 14.

I like how you happened to gloss over that she played up a year (u15 when she was u14) and still dominated.

But dont let facts get in the way of your REA agenda.

Another Q1 parent….worried about SY

Q3 parent actually. Heres.more facts for your RAE agenda.

During her youth career, Rodman played for SoCal Blues in the ECNL, which had a reputation for being one of the best, if not the best, girls team in the country in every age group they played in. Even when Rodman played up a year, the team was one of the best in the country.

When Rodman was playing U-14s, her team made it to the ECNL National Championship game, where SoCal Blues ultimately fell in double overtime to Solar Chelsea (now Solar SC). Everyone moved up to U-15s the next year, and the Blues went on a revenge tour. The team tore through the league, winning 30 straight games and qualifying for the ECNL National Championship. Waiting for them once again was Solar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

"Playing with friends" is not about anything except U-littles. It's about bringing kids INTO soccer, not about highly competitive teams. Its also about more than playing with friends, its about signing kids up together who know each other from school and also live by each other, which means those kids can also carpool to practice and games, becuase in addition to knowing the kids the parents know the parents.

My competitive player signed up first for soccer at 5 with girls from kinder garden in a rec league with a parent coach. Then only moved to a junior academy program because that program let all the girls come together. Despite not all being the same birth year. Within a couple a years of was clear that different girls were on different paths, it was time for select soccer, and the girls were split up by birth year and competitiveness and all is well, but the only reason they all played in the first place was becuase they, and we the parents, did it all together.

This is a real thing.

So the priority of youth soccer is going to be moving to playdate soccer for young players and ensuring carpool convenience and ongoing friendships for their parents? And this will produce competitive and talented players and teams? Sure!!! 😂

Million dollar question that hasn't been answered, how is birth year more likely to promote competitive and talented players and teams than school year?

This is the thing right? People who like SY, like the CEOs of USYS AYSO and US Club Soccer, and people in this forum articulate reasons why. Examples include bringing more kids into soccer through allowing them to play with people in their community, aligning with school so that school and club soccer are more harmonious, making college recruiting more straight forward, bringing soccer more in line with other youth sports in this country, etc.

Then BY parents give reasons for staying BY that are basically just like "all your problems are fake, friends are stupid, your kid sucks"

I mean, I think some of that is fair. But BY supporters also point out legitimate reasons. And SY parents talk S too about their RL kids taking all the NL spots after SY change, and BY kids don’t have skills, they’re just older, etc etc.

There are dickheads on both sides of the coin.

[Anonymous]

It seems some parents only want about 30 boys and 30 girls born each year in the US to start playing soccer when they turn 4 — no more and no less than 30 for each birth year. And it has to be the 30 boys and girls that are recognized through genetic testing as the 30 that will be the best US born soccer players when they get older. No need for any other kids to waste their time playing soccer for fun with their friends when they are young, since we will have already recognized the 30 or so boys and girls in the country each year turning 4 years old that will be in the national team pool when they are in their teens and early 20’s. According to some posters on this thread, more young kids choosing to play soccer for fun with their school friends when they are 4, 5, 6, and 7 will not result in any of them developing into national team players when they get older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

"Playing with friends" is not about anything except U-littles. It's about bringing kids INTO soccer, not about highly competitive teams. Its also about more than playing with friends, its about signing kids up together who know each other from school and also live by each other, which means those kids can also carpool to practice and games, becuase in addition to knowing the kids the parents know the parents.

My competitive player signed up first for soccer at 5 with girls from kinder garden in a rec league with a parent coach. Then only moved to a junior academy program because that program let all the girls come together. Despite not all being the same birth year. Within a couple a years of was clear that different girls were on different paths, it was time for select soccer, and the girls were split up by birth year and competitiveness and all is well, but the only reason they all played in the first place was becuase they, and we the parents, did it all together.

This is a real thing.

So the priority of youth soccer is going to be moving to playdate soccer for young players and ensuring carpool convenience and ongoing friendships for their parents? And this will produce competitive and talented players and teams? Sure!!! 😂

Million dollar question that hasn't been answered, how is birth year more likely to promote competitive and talented players and teams than school year?

This is the thing right? People who like SY, like the CEOs of USYS AYSO and US Club Soccer, and people in this forum articulate reasons why. Examples include bringing more kids into soccer through allowing them to play with people in their community, aligning with school so that school and club soccer are more harmonious, making college recruiting more straight forward, bringing soccer more in line with other youth sports in this country, etc.

Then BY parents give reasons for staying BY that are basically just like "all your problems are fake, friends are stupid, your kid sucks"

Exactly! BY crowd can’t articulate why we should stay BY….they just want their kid to play against kids that are a grade below theirs…

This isn’t true. You just have either been refusing to validate their valid reasons, or been ignoring their reasons. The BY crowd has absolutely articulated their POV.

From the start of the this discussion I’d say we SY supporters were the bigger Aholes, and now it’s probably evened out. We have the “ECNL hat” harasser, and the “sorry for you loss” idiot, and the “you can always play up” person, I don’t think the BY people have a specific character like that….maybe the “your kid just isn’t that good” jerk…that that doesn’t seem to be one specific troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the pro players kid?

Major league baseball player. Both he and his dad were MLB. The daughter has freakish abilities + you can tell that if she worked at it could get 10x better.

It's amazing to watch a player that's bigger faster younger etc etc etc + everything is just natural ability.

Natural ability has a limited shelf life

I saw Trinity Rodman play as a youth for Blues at Surf Cup. I've seen ridiculous youth natural ability.

For many natural ability does fade. But for some it does not. They will always be bigger, faster, and stronger than their competition.

These are the type of players that are on pro and national teams. RAE doesn't come into the picture. These are also the type of players on top youth teams.

RAE might matter at the littles rec levels but it does not at the highest youth competitive levels. This is why ECNL partnering with littles leagues on SY isn't a good choice. If you're playing at the highest levels SY or BY doesn't matter.

Rodman is probably one of the most overrated players ever. She has the soccer IQ of a middle schooler, the soccer skill of a HSer, in the body of an elite athlete. Almost every game she plays I want to throw the remote. For every highlight, she makes 50 boneheaded mistakes that are totally unacceptable for a NT player.

Pretty strong opinion.

What I saw was a player who's natural ability was off the charts. This likely opened doors because every coach thinks they can teach IQ.

Either way her natural ability trumped all the RAE zealots explanation about how the world works.

Q2 birthday under BY since about age 14.

I like how you happened to gloss over that she played up a year (u15 when she was u14) and still dominated.

But dont let facts get in the way of your REA agenda.

Another Q1 parent….worried about SY

Q3 parent actually. Heres.more facts for your RAE agenda.

During her youth career, Rodman played for SoCal Blues in the ECNL, which had a reputation for being one of the best, if not the best, girls team in the country in every age group they played in. Even when Rodman played up a year, the team was one of the best in the country.

When Rodman was playing U-14s, her team made it to the ECNL National Championship game, where SoCal Blues ultimately fell in double overtime to Solar Chelsea (now Solar SC). Everyone moved up to U-15s the next year, and the Blues went on a revenge tour. The team tore through the league, winning 30 straight games and qualifying for the ECNL National Championship. Waiting for them once again was Solar.

What does this have to do with Relative Age Effect bias?
What does it say to contradict Rodman's success?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason for low numbers in soccer is not because of Sy/by. Miss me with that playing with friends crap, you sound like a simp.

The reason for the low numbers is because Soccer is not the majority of American’s preferred sport to play and watch.

It’s not often you see entire families sit around to watch and support a soccer team like they do nfl and nba.

Also, I can bet you that in most soccer teams parents still don’t understand the rules of the game and don’t care to sit and wait for development.

That is the reason for poor numbers in soccer. Do you think the fastest football players in the US have considered playing soccer? Chances are no. Because they don’t understand it, because it’s not their parents preferred sport.

It’s not because of friends in school. Stop with that nonsense.

This is close to rights. I think it’s also because we culturally like action, and action = scoring in the US. The average EPL game is like 2.5 points in 90m…that sounds like a lot of foreplay but no action, and we Americans want action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

"Playing with friends" is not about anything except U-littles. It's about bringing kids INTO soccer, not about highly competitive teams. Its also about more than playing with friends, its about signing kids up together who know each other from school and also live by each other, which means those kids can also carpool to practice and games, becuase in addition to knowing the kids the parents know the parents.

My competitive player signed up first for soccer at 5 with girls from kinder garden in a rec league with a parent coach. Then only moved to a junior academy program because that program let all the girls come together. Despite not all being the same birth year. Within a couple a years of was clear that different girls were on different paths, it was time for select soccer, and the girls were split up by birth year and competitiveness and all is well, but the only reason they all played in the first place was becuase they, and we the parents, did it all together.

This is a real thing.

So the priority of youth soccer is going to be moving to playdate soccer for young players and ensuring carpool convenience and ongoing friendships for their parents? And this will produce competitive and talented players and teams? Sure!!! 😂

Million dollar question that hasn't been answered, how is birth year more likely to promote competitive and talented players and teams than school year?

This is the thing right? People who like SY, like the CEOs of USYS AYSO and US Club Soccer, and people in this forum articulate reasons why. Examples include bringing more kids into soccer through allowing them to play with people in their community, aligning with school so that school and club soccer are more harmonious, making college recruiting more straight forward, bringing soccer more in line with other youth sports in this country, etc.

Then BY parents give reasons for staying BY that are basically just like "all your problems are fake, friends are stupid, your kid sucks"

Exactly! BY crowd can’t articulate why we should stay BY….they just want their kid to play against kids that are a grade below theirs…

This isn’t true. You just have either been refusing to validate their valid reasons, or been ignoring their reasons. The BY crowd has absolutely articulated their POV.

From the start of the this discussion I’d say we SY supporters were the bigger Aholes, and now it’s probably evened out. We have the “ECNL hat” harasser, and the “sorry for you loss” idiot, and the “you can always play up” person, I don’t think the BY people have a specific character like that….maybe the “your kid just isn’t that good” jerk…that that doesn’t seem to be one specific troll.

The biggest reason for BY is that it's 100x easier for clubs to implement. The cutoff date isn't tied to anything other than a date.

With SY things get complicated quickly also by tieing the cutoff date to school start/stop dates it sets an expectation that if you're in X grade that you should be playing with Y team. Which opens up an entirely new can of worms when you consider hold backs and parents that "regrade" their kids for an advantage on the field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

"Playing with friends" is not about anything except U-littles. It's about bringing kids INTO soccer, not about highly competitive teams. Its also about more than playing with friends, its about signing kids up together who know each other from school and also live by each other, which means those kids can also carpool to practice and games, becuase in addition to knowing the kids the parents know the parents.

My competitive player signed up first for soccer at 5 with girls from kinder garden in a rec league with a parent coach. Then only moved to a junior academy program because that program let all the girls come together. Despite not all being the same birth year. Within a couple a years of was clear that different girls were on different paths, it was time for select soccer, and the girls were split up by birth year and competitiveness and all is well, but the only reason they all played in the first place was becuase they, and we the parents, did it all together.

This is a real thing.

So the priority of youth soccer is going to be moving to playdate soccer for young players and ensuring carpool convenience and ongoing friendships for their parents? And this will produce competitive and talented players and teams? Sure!!! 😂

Million dollar question that hasn't been answered, how is birth year more likely to promote competitive and talented players and teams than school year?

This is the thing right? People who like SY, like the CEOs of USYS AYSO and US Club Soccer, and people in this forum articulate reasons why. Examples include bringing more kids into soccer through allowing them to play with people in their community, aligning with school so that school and club soccer are more harmonious, making college recruiting more straight forward, bringing soccer more in line with other youth sports in this country, etc.

Then BY parents give reasons for staying BY that are basically just like "all your problems are fake, friends are stupid, your kid sucks"

Exactly! BY crowd can’t articulate why we should stay BY….they just want their kid to play against kids that are a grade below theirs…

This isn’t true. You just have either been refusing to validate their valid reasons, or been ignoring their reasons. The BY crowd has absolutely articulated their POV.

From the start of the this discussion I’d say we SY supporters were the bigger Aholes, and now it’s probably evened out. We have the “ECNL hat” harasser, and the “sorry for you loss” idiot, and the “you can always play up” person, I don’t think the BY people have a specific character like that….maybe the “your kid just isn’t that good” jerk…that that doesn’t seem to be one specific troll.

The biggest reason for BY is that it's 100x easier for clubs to implement. The cutoff date isn't tied to anything other than a date.

With SY things get complicated quickly also by tieing the cutoff date to school start/stop dates it sets an expectation that if you're in X grade that you should be playing with Y team. Which opens up an entirely new can of worms when you consider hold backs and parents that "regrade" their kids for an advantage on the field.

But don't let any of this get in the way of your agenda.

Just wait and have fun trying to figure out who is qualified to play in what tournament in which state. Or how eligibility works if you have an Aug birthday and move to a different school district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Maybe they are giving rides to the kid who's homelife isn't good and doesn't have that type of support but is gifted athletically.

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

Ok. So why not switch to SY? Competitive kids, you argue don't care if they play with friends. So changing the teams wont hurt anything. RAE is not real, so it wont effect the Q1Q2 kids.

And changing to SY will increase at least numbers of rec players...who can go and support US Soccer.

So what is the opposition to SY or benefit of BY?

Exactly the BY crowd is always doing mental gymnastics to justify BY over SY but then argues that their is no benefit and RAE doesn’t exist.

They just want their kids to play against younger kids

If you take a look at the rosters of those highly competitive teams like the PP suggested, you will also find that most (if not all) the players have played up on teams by a year or 2 at some point. They are encouraged into stronger and older competition to keep improving and developing. Being content to just play with friends in the same grade only will not produce competitive players or teams.

How does BY produce more competitive players or teams?

How does playdate soccer (SY) produce more competitive players or teams?

More kids playing and staying involved…leads to a bigger pool to choose from…instead of kids dropping out…

This explains increasing the numbers and quantity. Ir does not answer the question. An increase in the number of mediocre or average players who are in it just for soccer playdates and easy carpools does not explain how SY will produce more competitive players or teams.

Maybe the parents of mediocre players are giving rides to the underprivileged high ceiling athlete.

Maybe there will be a LeBron James- who would have been the best soccer player in the world..had his mom signed up for soccer. But she didn't because he is a December birthday and wanted to play his friends when he was 5- so started with basketball- and we all know how that went.

Yea…he went pro at 18, and played HS basketball, where the only age cutoff for his was the school cutoff and effectively freshman year…not the point you think it is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

Ok. So why not switch to SY? Competitive kids, you argue don't care if they play with friends. So changing the teams wont hurt anything. RAE is not real, so it wont effect the Q1Q2 kids.

And changing to SY will increase at least numbers of rec players...who can go and support US Soccer.

So what is the opposition to SY or benefit of BY?

Exactly the BY crowd is always doing mental gymnastics to justify BY over SY but then argues that their is no benefit and RAE doesn’t exist.

They just want their kids to play against younger kids

If you take a look at the rosters of those highly competitive teams like the PP suggested, you will also find that most (if not all) the players have played up on teams by a year or 2 at some point. They are encouraged into stronger and older competition to keep improving and developing. Being content to just play with friends in the same grade only will not produce competitive players or teams.

How does BY produce more competitive players or teams?

How does playdate soccer (SY) produce more competitive players or teams?

More kids playing and staying involved…leads to a bigger pool to choose from…instead of kids dropping out…

This explains increasing the numbers and quantity. Ir does not answer the question. An increase in the number of mediocre or average players who are in it just for soccer playdates and easy carpools does not explain how SY will produce more competitive players or teams.

How does your kid playing kids a grade level below produce competitive players? If you can only play when you are 6-12 months older...you kid is simply not good...and never will be. I get that you really want to believe your BY kid is naturally good...and that goes away with a switch to SY...but your kid will never be a good player in the long run anyways. Eventually they will have to play against kids their own age.

Nice deflection, but the question still remains unanswered.

And the question about how school year making kids more competitive still hasn’t been answered either. Both have pros and cons. Only difference is ECNL is trying to fully align with a dying college soccer.

This is spot on. And if you have a kid in ECNL, as I do, you should be really worried about their leadership.

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Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

2 pieces of factual data were presented in support. No factual data was presented against. Don’t ask for more facts when 1.) some facts have already been presented (even if you don’t like them), and 2.) no facts have been presented against.

Do your own homework and stop whining.

BS. No data has been present showing SY increases participation. No data has been presented showing SY decreases quits. You’re lying, AND, you can’t prove otherwise, so you’re trying to put the burden of truth on other people.

Doesn’t work that way. You made the claim, you put up the proof. Or…you’re just a gaslighting liar…

Where is the data from the league that recently changed from BY to SY and enrollments increased?

Huh?

Again, didn’t make the claims, not my problem to solve.

There IS a league that just went from SY to BY in 2023, AYSO! And they have been seeing some of the largest decreases in participation over the past number of years. Take-home is that age cutoff isn’t a variable in “mom, I think I want to try soccer” and kids tend to quit sports around 8th grade.

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Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

Again, for the millionth time on this chat, this is to increase the number of younger kids in the game. Not teens or pre-teens. Because the more younger kids in the game, the larger the player pool in the sport that can go on to create great players as they advance to pre-teens and teens. And all younger kids enjoy sports where they get to play and win with their friends.

Exactly how does SY increase participation?
Will schools be forming their own ECNL teams based on home rooms?

US Soccer says it will. Game over.

No…US Soccer didn’t say that. You’re reading into the removal of a mandate as an endorsement of a mandate…dumb take.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:RAE exists in any year long system, period.

The switch to SY does not fix, address, or otherwise lessen the impact of RAE.

All, ALL IT DOES, is theoretically encourage participation for younger years that will hopefully result in more players later on AND IT FIXES TRAPPED PLAYERS, for the most part with some possible outliers.

The lower participation is theorized because not only are kids split across grades, but, the younger kids also hit with the RAE. By moving the date, the kids at the bad side of RAE will at least be with their classmates.

Youth (and future national) soccer in the USA is doomed if ‘playing with friends and classmates’ has become a main criteria for soccer development.

New term
Playdate Soccer

Again, at the u-littles it is, in order to increase the total pool, so that the vanishingly small number of actually incredibly talented kids have a bigger chance of sticking around.

Regardless, the ending of trapped players is, to me, the best part.

The month of your birth does not determine talent. The player pool is not going to increase because of this. Talented competitive players are not interested in watered down playdate soccer.

And trapped players will still exist no matter the cut off. This is reality.

Talented, competitive, young athletes are certainly interested in playing with friends. Which is why some now leave soccer at a young age (even though they dominate in soccer) to play other sports they dominate in (such as basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, swimming, softball, etc.) where they get to play with friends in their grade while dominating in those sports, too.

While there will continue to be some trapped players, there will be much less of them.

And for the BY fans, even though the leagues may change to SY, the national teams will continue to be BY. So all the current Q1 kids will remain in Q1 when they go on to play for the national teams.

Take a look at the rosters of highly competitive teams (those that advance to playoffs or finals for example) - these players come from various areas and are not in the same schools or neighborhoods even. Competitive players are not looking for playdate soccer.

Again, for the millionth time on this chat, this is to increase the number of younger kids in the game. Not teens or pre-teens. Because the more younger kids in the game, the larger the player pool in the sport that can go on to create great players as they advance to pre-teens and teens. And all younger kids enjoy sports where they get to play and win with their friends.

Exactly how does SY increase participation?
Will schools be forming their own ECNL teams based on home rooms?

It’s been explained several times using very small words and simple English. If you can’t comprehend it by now, you’ barely have the intelligence to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Pretty sure it’s never been explained. It’s been suggest that it “just will”, but the “how” is absolutely unexplained. Even your response to
PP is a pretty poorly managed “it just will.”

Not saying it won’t, but let’s be real, the idea that an age cutoff will increase participation is 100% theory.

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Anonymous wrote:Who is the pro players kid?

Major league baseball player. Both he and his dad were MLB. The daughter has freakish abilities + you can tell that if she worked at it could get 10x better.

It's amazing to watch a player that's bigger faster younger etc etc etc + everything is just natural ability.

Natural ability has a limited shelf life

I saw Trinity Rodman play as a youth for Blues at Surf Cup. I've seen ridiculous youth natural ability.

For many natural ability does fade. But for some it does not. They will always be bigger, faster, and stronger than their competition.

These are the type of players that are on pro and national teams. RAE doesn't come into the picture. These are also the type of players on top youth teams.

RAE might matter at the littles rec levels but it does not at the highest youth competitive levels. This is why ECNL partnering with littles leagues on SY isn't a good choice. If you're playing at the highest levels SY or BY doesn't matter.

Rodman is probably one of the most overrated players ever. She has the soccer IQ of a middle schooler, the soccer skill of a HSer, in the body of an elite athlete. Almost every game she plays I want to throw the remote. For every highlight, she makes 50 boneheaded mistakes that are totally unacceptable for a NT player.

Pretty strong opinion.

What I saw was a player who's natural ability was off the charts. This likely opened doors because every coach thinks they can teach IQ.

Either way her natural ability trumped all the RAE zealots explanation about how the world works.

Q2 birthday under BY since about age 14.

Well, we can all rest assured then, Trinity Rodman is going to get bumped by my Q4 RL kid in 2026. 🎉