College Division 1 versus Division 3
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Anonymous
| We're looking for experiences and input about the differences/pros and cons between playing Division 1 and Division 3 at strong academic schools. DS has opportunities at both and is attracted to the prestige and challenge of playing "Division 1" but we are wondering if Division 3 might be the smarter choice long-term. |
Anonymous
| Pick the best academic school where he can get playing time. It is better to contribute in D3 than sit the beach in D1. |
Anonymous
I have had kids play both levels, at strong academic institutions. I caution about the D1 experience. Unless you are at an Ivy or a small handful of "like-Ivys", you often find that a massive percentage of the roster on a D1 team is majoring in the easiest possible discipline at the school. In other cases, like UVA's men's team, you will find a terrible historical graduation success rate--like below 50% of the boys graduate from ANY college within 6 years of enrolling as a freshman. Many would consider a school like UVA a strong academic school, but athletes there on many teams are on a different trajectory (meaning coach just wants to get them through, and they leave with a sub-par academic transcript). There are programs at strong schools that police graduation success, though. These seem to be the exception. In general, the D3 experience is far superior for having time to get involved in other activities around campus to enhance the collegiate experience, like career-oriented clubs, volunteer work, etc. I'd do a lot of diligence on the coach at the D1 level, and I am not talking diligence on whether he or she has a good win/loss record, but rather, do their players graduate, what do they end up doing, etc. D1 is a much more substantial time commitment, and if your kid is playing in the top of a D3 conference (the two I am thinking of are both excellent academically), the competition is every bit as good as a middling D1 conference in soccer. |
Anonymous
| Is there such a thing as Division 2? Always wondered and not a sports family. |
Anonymous
Yes, there is a division II. |
Anonymous
| Great earlier point about academics. At the DI level, it is about winning. To balance winning and academics, you need to find the right coach and program. Check the majors listed by the players. I would raise a red flag if there are too many communications majors. Big Ten, ACC, Pac 12, Service academies and Ivy League are the conference that do a better job of balancing major soccer with academics. |
Anonymous
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At many schools, being a D1 athlete is a full-time job. Coaches will DEMAND to see you at practices, workouts, tactics briefings, fitness, etc without any regard to your academic pressures.
This is a very interesting survey of college athletes about their experiences. You can see the number differences between D1 and D3 and get a better idea from the data what to expect. https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/GOALS_convention_slidebank_jan2016_public.pdf (personally, unless a professional or US National team callup is in the cards, I'd choose the best academic / career institution). |
Anonymous
| I chose decent SLAC D3 route for bball instead of middling D1 schools. If one is truly D1 caliber and good academically then schools like Williams often can be made affordable by scholarships. My experience is dated though. |
Anonymous
| I played D1 and it is a full time job. It is very stressful, exhausting, but also rewarding. My incoming freshman class was 13 people and only 3 of us made it playing all 4 years. I would choose a school that your DS loves academically and socially before soccer. Incase soccer does not work out for whatever reason, you don’t want that to be the only reason he went there. |
Anonymous
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I'll echo the PPs about the difference in majors between D1 and D3 (and D2 for that matter).
My DS played a sport at a D2 school and while not as intense as D1, he did struggle being a science major. Many of his teammates were communications majors and not missing labs when they were traveling for games. Freshman year wasn't too bad, but sophomore year when science classes got tougher (hello, Organic Chemistry) his GPA took a big hit. My younger DS is looking at colleges now, also plays a sport at a high level, and also plans to major in science. Older DS's experience has spooked him and he's looking at schools academically first. If the school he wants is D3, he'll probably play his sport. If it's D1, no. |
Anonymous
+1 My DS majored pre-med and also played D1 sport at George Mason and it was NOT possible. He left the team after the freshman year to concentrate on academic. it takes a special person to major in science and play D1 sport at the same time, something my DS was NOT. |
Anonymous
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Please repeat the following:
"It depends on the school and the program." Ivies, Stanford, ND, NW, and others allow student to balance academics with athletics. My take is that the bigger schools with stronger programs have the resources to support students. Also, you will likely have to spend part of the summer in school taking classes to keep up with course load. |
Anonymous
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The majority of Stanford's roster are undeclared.
https://gostanford.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc Stanford also counseled students on "easy classes" if they were athletes. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stanford-athletes-had-acc_n_833655 |
Anonymous
Looks like the majority of Stanford's roster are freshmen or sophomores, so it makes sense that they'd be undeclared. Those with a major listed include a few with physics or engineering, which is kind of surprising/impressive for such a high level team and school. Seems to support PPs point. The article is from 2011. I'd bet the a lot of schools changed policies for athletes after the UNC scandals. |
Anonymous
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We went through things with a daughter who played soccer -- now in grad school. It will differ based on sport.
Div 1: Max 20 hours per week for practices, games and travel. But not including "volunteered" time. That would be weightroom, stretching, film, seeing trainers primarily. Every school we looked at (3 seriously) required basically all athletes participate in clocked study hours during the season, and grade monitoring out of season (required study table if grades were not at a prescribed level. 3.0 or better for women's soccer although most team gpas were well north of that). All schools had specialized tutors available for athletes in their study area basically from 9-9 Monday through Saturday. Certain majors are not very realistic for an athlete -- these include sciences with a decent amount of lab work particularly where labs are done in specific sequences and may not be available in the non-season terms. A class may have 10 labs over the term. Students might be able to miss 1 lab and still qualify but 2 or more and they would need to retake. Athletes in season may well have to miss multiple labs due to game/travel requirements. So -- those classes are non-starters in season. The question then becomes whether you can take the lab classes in off-season terms? Is there specific sequencing required (Chem Lab 101-102 for example), and could you even take classes out of the standard sequence? (Chem 101 in Winter/Spring - when everyone else took it in Fall/Winter). In a big school often there will be a chance to take intro weeder lab courses through-out the year. The question really becomes what is the schedule like when you are taking Jr. and Sr. level courses. Additionally -- you have the question of when classes are offered versus practice times. You know the practice times and they are scheduled so that the bulk of class times are available. But, again, specific classes like labs, music, theater, may well require participation during those times when practices/games are scheduled. As an aside -- like majors with lots of labs, music, theater and art majors also are really discouraged from playing sports because of the time requirements. My daughter was considering an art/teaching degree as a possilbe major going into college, and basically every coach told her -- nicely -- that's unlikely; and it would be. Art would require way too many hours in studios creating projects. An art class may be 3 credits and essentially require 100 hours of studio time. Music is similar in that it requires way too much practice time. You can't do those things on a plane or bus. Out of season Div 1 allows 8 hours of schedule practice time. But, again, you will have many, many hours of volunteer time for fitness, training room and film. Div 3 is really about the same in season, but the allowed required hours disappear out of season. No required hours are allowed and coach/player contact is very limited. The discussion of it being easier in season though is frankly wrong. Coaches for Div 3 programs do that for their living. They are not easier on players because it is Div. 3. They will get fired if they do not produce. But, one often key component is that they also have to produce kids who attend the school so if they were complete jerks that message would get out, and kids would go elsewhere. D-3 programs as a whole are mostly liberal arts schools which can mean that science majors are more difficult to find. Also, in that these are smaller schools, it can mean that sequenced classes are offered in sequence. Miss out on Chem 201 because you can't do the lab work in season -- well you have to wait until next Fall -- wait that's also in season. Competitive Div 3 programs also have lots of "volunteer" time but practices are run by captains. Still -- fitness and weight training is monitored. Finally, one other big calculation that is "overlooked" by coaches is the time it takes to get ready for practices/games and to get ready after practices/games. Practices start at X. You have to be on the field ready to go at X. That means before X you need to make sure that you have eaten something far enough in advance so you can be good through a hard practice. You have gotten to the practice facility, changed, done whatever taping and stretching you need to do -- anything the trainer might require too -- and are on the practice field. After practice you need to shower/change, and deal with any injuries, icing, and/dor work with the trainers. With a Div 1 -- your sport is who you are and what you do. Div 3 your sport is the same, except that in the offseason you have time to do some other more standard student stuff. Finally -- want to see how the numbers work in real life? Go to the website of any college team you are considering a possibility. Write down the names of all the seniors on the current team. Now, go back 4 years and pull up the team. How many freshman were there 4 years ago -- compare. A very good ratio would be over 50% survived on the team to their senior year. Do that for a few years if the head coach is the same. You will get a very good idea how many players stick with a program. Why so much attrition? Partial scholarships and the amount of effort required of players when they are not playing. It is a ton of work. Head coaches are not always nice. You are not paying them. They are paying you. If you are not producing they want to get someone who will produce. Players are not always friends or even friendly - particularly older kids to younger kid. Keep in mind, "There is no I in team", but there are two in playing time. |